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Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Go to solution Solved by techswede,
26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Don't lump me in with them. I'm an enthusiast of mechanic design, be it engines, weaponry, or productive machinery. Not a guy with a wrench that reads the marketing garbage AFE/insert other "enthusiast" brand that can't legally warranty half of their products.

 

I fail to see a correlation between people screeching variations of "forced induction is more efficient!!! Reclaimed energy!!!" and anything I've said.

If you can't be civil. Please leave

 

Edit. That goes for everyone in the thread

Oh dear... what unfortunate timing for this video to pop up in my sub box :P @MEC-777

 

 

I have a number of "interjections" to things he says in this video. I'm guessing the turbo'd setups he drove were probably using oversized turbos which give a more narrow power band and lack of low-end grunt (a mistake I see way too often with turbo setups). He didn't give any figures or numbers as to how much power he would like to make with his car, but I suspect by the way he was talking, he's not looking to build a dyno queen. I bet I could properly size a turbo and create a setup he would like more than an SC. The part about reliability I completely disagree with. It depends on the components you use and the competency of the person who is putting it together. This follows for both turbos and SC's. But there is no reason a turbo setup should be less reliable than an SC, given the same engine and power goals. 

 

It is a matter of preference, ultimately, as to which people prefer [to drive] and I respect his decision - it's his car. I just absolutely love everything about turbos. The noises, the way the power is delivered in a rushing wave, the fact that I know it's not leaching power to spin a set of giant screws in a box that would (and should) otherwise be going to the tires, the fact that they have more potential and are more efficient. Every time I hear the whine of a blower or gears of a centrifugal SC all I can think of is wasted energy.  :P

 

I mean, just watch and listen... Sounds like a freak'n A380 at full chat. :D

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Notice how nobody is yanking the turbos from their Evo's and replacing them with SC's to make 1000+ hp. ;):P

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Notice how nobody is yanking the turbos from their Evo's and replacing them with SC's to make 1000+ hp. ;):P

notice how nobody noticed jeremy clarkson's wangtanabe rims that i posted earlier. (They would look awesome on an evo! :P )

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1 v16

2 rotary (real rotary not the Wankel engine)

3 w16

4 w12

5 Chrysler a57 multibank 

 

You must be a fan of the VW group with those massive engines lol

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You must be a fan of the VW group with those massive engines lol

ya they are pretty unusual and interesting engines 

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ya they are pretty unusual and interesting engines 

I quite like the w12 more than the w16 .-.

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I have always said "if the turbo is properly sized". And, yes, if the turbo is properly sized on a given engine, it will always make more power per psi than a blower, primarily for the simple fact that a blower requires more power from the engine to drive it. 

 

Yes, it certainly does matter where the boost is being measured. Throughout the intake tract from the outlet of the turbo to various points in the charge pipe to the intercooler, the pressure will increase and decrease depending on the size/diameter of the pipe at each given point. The flow rate throughout the charge pipe and intercooler however, does remain the same. When the piping gets larger (like where it flows through the intercooler) the intake air slows down and pressure increases. When it re-enters the charge pipe after the intercooler, the air speeds up and pressure decreases. But, when it passes through the TB into the intake manifold, again, assuming the same intake air temps and engine rpm, 13psi is 13psi, regardless of what ever is compressing that air. It's a fixed volume vessel you're flowing air through. You cannot increase the volume flow rate at a fixed rpm without also increasing the pressure (boost) as it is measure from that point. 

 

Yes, a larger turbo will flow more air per psi but only at the turbo outlet. It's very important to make that distinction. As soon as that air enters the intake manifold of that same engine, you're confined to the pressure ratio and flow rates of that engine. That is why you have to calculate the pressure ratio and flow rate of the specific engine you're using  at the power level you want to make and plot that line on the compressor map of a given turbo to see if it will be efficient enough for that engine/power combo. This is exactly what we did with our MR2's 4A. 

 

I drive a 1.8t so I like using it as an example. :) Yes, you will certainly gain significant amounts of power from using a more efficient turbo. The stock turbo is only good for 220hp or so (250 is pushing the stock turbo IMO). At that power level, the turbo is so inefficient that it requires higher boost levels to make that amount of power vs a more efficient turbo. Why? Mainly because of intake air temps. An inefficient turbo that's being pushed to it's limits will be pumping out mostly hot air. Hot air is much less dense and thus it requires more boost to flow the required volume rate to make that power. Install a bigger turbo that easily flows the required amount of air at much lower temps and you don't need as much boost to make the same amount of power. This is why I keep saying "properly sized" turbos. Because properly sized turbos on a given engine (be it single or twin) at a given rpm, will make about the same amount of power from the same amount of boost with around the same intake temps.

 

Its thermodynamics and fluid dynamics. I studied this in school and have been working on and around this stuff (race cars/engines) for about 10 years +/-. I know what I'm talking about. The fact that you claimed it doesn't matter where boost is measured shows that you don't fully understand what I'm explaining.

Look at post # 36752. You don't say anything about size... You just made a blanket statement that turbos will make more power per psi than superchargers

Where you measure boost doesn't matter for what I'm trying to say about the above statement

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Look at post # 36752. You don't say anything about size... You just made a blanket statement that turbos will make more power per psi than superchargers

Where you measure boost doesn't matter for what I'm trying to say about the above statement

why are you two still arguing about this?

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why are you two still arguing about this?

Because being right gives everyone a raging hard-on?

 

I dunno.

.

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I really wish I could do a valve clearance adjustment easily on my 1ZZ... The tapping at a cold start idle is really annoying.

But it just had to be the weird valve design that requires some cylinder head disassembly...

But at least afaik it's mostly harmless. Never cold start an old 1ZZ when you're trying to sell it xD

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I kind of wish Toyota/Yamaha/Subaru would have improved the 2ZZ-GE and put it in the FRS/BRZ/GT-86 haha

A 2005 Corolla XRS has a .2 sec faster 0-60 than an FRS/BRZ lol

I mean if they completely redid the 2ZZ and perhaps made it output 210ish (2ZZ was 180) from 1.8L (same size) and renamed it the 4ZZ or something lol then it would of been perfect, reliable, easy to work on, Economical, etc.

And then they could of did a special edition Corolla again with the same engine xD (ok I may like corollas too much now)

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I kind of wish Toyota/Yamaha/Subaru would have improved the 2ZZ-GE and put it in the FRS/BRZ/GT-86 haha

A 2005 Corolla XRS has a .2 sec faster 0-60 than an FRS/BRZ lol

I mean if they completely redid the 2ZZ and perhaps made it output 210ish (2ZZ was 180) from 1.8L (same size) and renamed it the 4ZZ or something lol then it would of been perfect, reliable, easy to work on, Economical, etc.

And then they could of did a special edition Corolla again with the same engine xD (ok I may like corollas too much now)

 

GT86 definitely should've had around ~250hp. Camrys should not be able to outrun a 'sports car' no matter how chassis focused it is. 

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I mentioned something related in elsewhere thread but are bikes in the us allowed 1 number plate rather than two

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Driving a rear wheel drive car in the snow

632830_1132407_5616_3744_08C254_04.jpgDriving a front wheel drive car in the snow

bored_driver.gif

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I mentioned something related in elsewhere thread but are bikes in the us allowed 1 number plate rather than two

I think this is a state thing. Here in Louisiana afaik all vehicles are only required to have a rear plate only.

Texas however on cars at least you need both a front and back plate. Might be the same for bikes there too? Idk

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Driving a rear wheel drive car in the snow

~snip~

Driving a front wheel drive car in the snow

~snip~

 

 

It's honestly not that bad. You just need to use the inertia to move the car, along with the e-brake :D

 

At least it's not a modern Audi Quattro.

 

Edit: Notice how those two cars are both ready to be hooked and towed  :ph34r:

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notice how nobody noticed jeremy clarkson's wangtanabe rims that i posted earlier. (They would look awesome on an evo! [emoji14] )

I noticed...

I drive a Honda, but i'm a Toyota boy at heart.

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Look at post # 36752. You don't say anything about size... You just made a blanket statement that turbos will make more power per psi than superchargers

Where you measure boost doesn't matter for what I'm trying to say about the above statement

Which they will simply due to the fact that a supercharger uses engine power.

Unless of course you are dumb and throw a massive turbo on a 1.8t or something of the like that can't power it right. The same could be said if a massive supercharger.

I drive a Honda, but i'm a Toyota boy at heart.

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It's honestly not that bad. You just need to use the inertia to move the car, along with the e-brake :D

 

At least it's not a modern Audi Quattro.

 

Edit: Notice how those two cars are both ready to be hooked and towed  :ph34r:

Yes but it is soo boring.. I miss being able to kick out the rear of the car a little bit on every corner. 

 

The modern quattro would probably be a bit more entertaining though :/

 

They are on ice xD One overcorrection and the car will be up on a snow bank  :D

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The modern quattro would probably be a bit more entertaining though :/

 

With that I don't mean the Quattro-Quattro, I mean any Audi using the Quattro four-wheel drive system. It's the most boring and understeering thing that I have driven.

 

Hell, when my father got his A4 fixed, then he had an A1 FWD as a loaner. And that was way more fun to drive than the A4. Spite the lack of power, and it being FWD. I can understand larger cars being boring as FWD, but not small hatchbacks :D

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With that I don't mean the Quattro-Quattro, I mean any Audi using the Quattro four-wheel drive system. It's the most boring and understeering thing that I have driven.

 

Hell, when my father got his A4 fixed, then he had an A1 FWD as a loaner. And that was way more fun to drive than the A4. Spite the lack of power, and it being FWD. I can understand larger cars being boring as FWD, but not small hatchbacks :D

I know what you meant. 

 

FWD hatchback wouldn't be too bad. But a big ass wagon is dull

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