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Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 100k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Go to solution Solved by techswede,
26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Don't lump me in with them. I'm an enthusiast of mechanic design, be it engines, weaponry, or productive machinery. Not a guy with a wrench that reads the marketing garbage AFE/insert other "enthusiast" brand that can't legally warranty half of their products.

 

I fail to see a correlation between people screeching variations of "forced induction is more efficient!!! Reclaimed energy!!!" and anything I've said.

If you can't be civil. Please leave

 

Edit. That goes for everyone in the thread

4 minutes ago, RTX 3090 said:

Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars

We don't.

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5 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

We don't.

Whenever I mention electric cars to anybody who likes cars, 99% are against the idea of them and hate them no matter how they perform

Please tag me @RTX 3090 so I can see your reply

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Just now, RTX 3090 said:

Whenever I mention electric cars to anybody who likes cars, 99% are against the idea of them and hate them no matter how they perform

It's mainly down to the infrastucture (or lack thereof). The infrastucture for EV's is pretty poor currently and hasn't improved much since they became more mainstream.

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3 minutes ago, 3 Lions said:

It's mainly down to the infrastucture (or lack thereof). The infrastucture for EV's is pretty poor currently and hasn't improved much since they became more mainstream.

In the UK there is an electric charge point literally 10 miles away from each other. And it's basically free petrol

Please tag me @RTX 3090 so I can see your reply

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Just now, RTX 3090 said:

In the UK there is an electric charge point literally 10 miles away from each other. And it's basically free petrol

Yes but there are far too many faulty charging points.

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6 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

That thing is nuts lol

I miss the choncc-tastic quaife sequential shift lever in the middle but it's a damn impressive feat for a chassis that old. Unsurprisingly he's faster than the top percentile of 911 GT3 cup cars (+3s approx, he's also tuned them for teams) but because its built primarily as a touring car and not outright unlimited time attack, it's noticeably slower than a pure sprint chassis (-6s approx on current record). Would love to see what she can do on a proper set of tires (ditch those ancient PZero hards) and after a proper button up.

 

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3 minutes ago, RTX 3090 said:

Just a question of mine : Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars. If it doesn't make enough noise, just get one with a noise generator. They even have faster 0-60 the petrol cars, so why are they hated so much

 

I wouldn't say all as that's quite unfair. People have different priorities, and theres countless very well thought out discussions on youtube. Coincidentally Sasha, the guy behind the crazy 350Z above, also makes track-oriented suspension mods for the Model 3. Misha (nurburgring god) has also considered buying one for himself. The performance is there if you're willing to compromise, but ownership might not be suitable for everyone

 

As a city-dweller, outright range and general build quality are the primary concerns (and cost I guess). Buy what you can afford to live with, or splurge on what you want. As a novelty item, the G's in acceleration that a Tesla can achieve are really its only party trick. As a road car that can perform dynamically, the Taycan and etron GT have already shown their upper hand.

 

 

This was a great chat. The e is a great car but its range limits it exclusively to urban use (not too different from what the Leaf tried to do). As a bundle proposition (car+infrastructure), any tesla suddenly becomes extremely enticing value-wise. 

 

If you are combustion-or-bust then there's not much to say to sway you to go BEV. They are fundamentally very different driving experiences.

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1 hour ago, RTX 3090 said:

Just a question of mine : Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars. If it doesn't make enough noise, just get one with a noise generator. They even have faster 0-60 the petrol cars, so why are they hated so much

Because they don't like driving cars. They like jerking off over 'performance features'.

cc @terrytek

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Did the front brake pads for the first time on my Honda motorcycle. 25k miles seems like a good service life, the rotor was fine, and bedding-in went fine; It's nice to have a fresh set of pads.

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6 hours ago, RTX 3090 said:

Just a question of mine : Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars. If it doesn't make enough noise, just get one with a noise generator. They even have faster 0-60 the petrol cars, so why are they hated so much

Lots of car enthusiasts love electric cars because they are faster and have more torque and that torque is instant, electric 0-60 is far better then gas cars. The biggest downfall is range anxiety and charge time which is why I stick to gasoline cars because they are cheaper and easier to fix. Elon Musk doesnt want you to fix his cars.

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29 minutes ago, Orange1 said:

Lots of car enthusiasts love electric cars because they are faster and have more torque and that torque is instant, electric 0-60 is far better then gas cars. The biggest downfall is range anxiety and charge time which is why I stick to gasoline cars because they are cheaper and easier to fix. Elon Musk doesnt want you to fix his cars.

tesla is prooving to literally  be the apple of cars. 

only electric car with a proprietary connector, strict DRM, clean minimalistic interfaces and a cult following

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5 hours ago, Orange1 said:

Lots of car enthusiasts love electric cars because they are faster and have more torque and that torque is instant, electric 0-60 is far better then gas cars. The biggest downfall is range anxiety and charge time which is why I stick to gasoline cars because they are cheaper and easier to fix. Elon Musk doesnt want you to fix his cars.

Actually the biggest downside and the main reason a lot of enthusiasts are cold on electric cars is weight. Many, if not most, don't really care about 2 second 0-60 as that gets old pretty fast. But small EV saloons are pushing two tonnes and that 1/3 weight penalty is a lot to overcome in making a car that's actually enjoyable to shepherd along a B-road.

 

Tesla have come great strides in making electric cars that feel lighter than their kerb weight suggests but  put me in a car park in the Brecon Beacons with a Model 3 Performance and an Alfa Romeo Giulia QV and tell me to pick one to wring the neck of for three hours and there's only one choice really. Then there's also the question of noise. I don't think we've yet acclimatised to the idea of how electric cars sound after over s century of petrol engines.

 

 

I'm not cold on electric cars in principle, in fact I'd gladly daily an EV. I just don't think I'd want one as my weekend car. Actually the closest analogy I can think of is Audi S and RS models which offer fantastic all weather performance and big power but are inherently point and squirt and not very engaging or interesting.

 

Then again I picked an M140i, a car I willingly acknowledge is rather flawed, over an A45 AMG even though the latter is objectively better in most ways so maybe I'm just weird.

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12 hours ago, RTX 3090 said:

Just a question of mine : Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars. If it doesn't make enough noise, just get one with a noise generator. They even have faster 0-60 the petrol cars, so why are they hated so much

We dont. They just arent as appealing. Theres only so much excitement a car that sets off quickly can bring. I drive I-Paces on the daily and yes theyre quick but thats where the excitement stops really, they severely lack in character and you can't really use them for long journeys either due to range limitations and charge times. 

Needs money for car parts :P

 

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7 minutes ago, HM-2 said:

Actually the biggest downside and the main reason a lot of enthusiasts are cold on electric cars is weight. Many, if not most, don't really care about 2 second 0-60 as that gets old pretty fast. But small EV saloons are pushing two tonnes and that 1/3 weight penalty is a lot to overcome in making a car that's actually enjoyable to shepherd along a B-road.

 

Tesla have come great strides in making electric cars that feel lighter than their kerb weight suggests but  put me in a car park in the Brecon Beacons with a Model 3 Performance and an Alfa Romeo Giulia QV and tell me to pick one to wring the neck of for three hours and there's only one choice really. Then there's also the question of noise. I don't think we've yet acclimatised to the idea of how electric cars sound after over s century of petrol engines.

 

 

I'm not cold on electric cars in principle, in fact I'd gladly daily an EV. I just don't think I'd want one as my weekend car. Actually the closest analogy I can think of is Audi S and RS models which offer fantastic all weather performance and big power but are inherently point and squirt and not very engaging or interesting.

 

Then again I picked an M140i, a car I willingly acknowledge is rather flawed, over an A45 AMG even though the latter is objectively better in most ways so maybe I'm just weird.

Wait, could either even make it round for 3 hours without breaking or overheating or going into limp?

 

I'd be into a Tesla Roadster and I wish there were more electric sports cars in that vein, hopefully with batteries getting higher power density and some lighter materials for batteries coming down in the next decade it'll become more feasible. An electric Caterham would be a lot of fun, or even an electric assisted one with some regen braking and torque assist to complement a naturally aspirated smaller gas engine or to take up for turbo lag on a smaller turbo gas engine. A Caterham 160 with some electric assist would make for a bunch of fun as you'd have torque on tap to rip out of the corners and then could re-charge the assist via regen elsewhere on the circuit when you'd normally be engine braking off throttle. The 160 is already super light, the minor weight penalty imposed wouldn't be that much of a drag and may actually help it's stability if the battery pack is placed in the right location.

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11 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Wait, could either even make it round for 3 hours without breaking or overheating or going into limp?

Most of the QV issues seem to be with infotainment and the like so not likely to be that bothersome on mountain roads unless I get lost. Mechanically they're pretty sturdy!

 

I can see assist working as there's limited need for storage but on the flip side I'm not sure how much energy capture potential you'd have in something so light. Given the weight of most EV powertrains I'd suspect you might end up ruining one my making it all electric.

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47 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Wait, could either even make it round for 3 hours without breaking or overheating or going into limp?

 

I'd be into a Tesla Roadster and I wish there were more electric sports cars in that vein, hopefully with batteries getting higher power density and some lighter materials for batteries coming down in the next decade it'll become more feasible. An electric Caterham would be a lot of fun, or even an electric assisted one with some regen braking and torque assist to complement a naturally aspirated smaller gas engine or to take up for turbo lag on a smaller turbo gas engine. A Caterham 160 with some electric assist would make for a bunch of fun as you'd have torque on tap to rip out of the corners and then could re-charge the assist via regen elsewhere on the circuit when you'd normally be engine braking off throttle. The 160 is already super light, the minor weight penalty imposed wouldn't be that much of a drag and may actually help it's stability if the battery pack is placed in the right location.

The whole point of a Caterham is that it's light weight, so a BEV would entirely miss the point. The Honda E, not a large car, is over 1500Kg! And that before you consider where you could put the batteries in the Caterham, it's proper tiny.

 

Nor in a light weight sports car do you want abundant, instant torque, you'll just break traction. You want a low torque engine that produces power though high revs to give the driver the necessary level of control. EVs need traction control that cannot be turned off, which is not very sports car. Sure in a big heavy saloons/sedans or SUVs, EV drivetrains are a good match, but not in sports cars. 

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On 11/6/2020 at 10:03 PM, RorzNZ said:

Still going with the 407 - haven't been on the thread for a long time because I was at university, but getting back into fixing up my car. Really nice to be out working in the summer. I've fitted a Joying HU, moved the amplifier to the boot, fixed and soldered the cabling, ran the cables under the carpet (so hard and gross).

 

Fixed up a couple scratches and clear coat with some touch-up. My car isn't expensive enough for a good paint job unfortunately. I'm really happy because my car hasn't looked this good in a long time. So excited on what to do next.

 

Also did not know my rear seats folded like that. So found a lot of yucky junk under it. I don't think any other owner found out you could do that either lol. 

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I approve the choice of the car. Father just swapped his Laguna III for descendant of your 407, 508 II. 

Anyway, yesterday it was summer set cleaning day, the are now back in the storage for about 6 months 😞

 

 

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5 hours ago, Monkey Dust said:

The whole point of a Caterham is that it's light weight, so a BEV would entirely miss the point. The Honda E, not a large car, is over 1500Kg! And that before you consider where you could put the batteries in the Caterham, it's proper tiny.

 

Nor in a light weight sports car do you want abundant, instant torque, you'll just break traction. You want a low torque engine that produces power though high revs to give the driver the necessary level of control. EVs need traction control that cannot be turned off, which is not very sports car. Sure in a big heavy saloons/sedans or SUVs, EV drivetrains are a good match, but not in sports cars. 

for your second point about breaking traction, can't you just have awesome Traction control so you get the absolute limit of acceleration at any given speed (up until the motor can't do it anymore)? 

I thought that was like the whole idea. Otherwise the fast teslas would be doing burnouts off the line too

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30 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

for your second point about breaking traction, can't you just have awesome Traction control so you get the absolute limit of acceleration at any given speed (up until the motor can't do it anymore)? 

I thought that was like the whole idea. Otherwise the fast teslas would be doing burnouts off the line too

You can...but then you're moving away from the ethos of an ultra raw racecar for the road which is the whole USP of stuff like the Caterhams.

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47 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

for your second point about breaking traction, can't you just have awesome Traction control so you get the absolute limit of acceleration at any given speed (up until the motor can't do it anymore)? 

I thought that was like the whole idea. Otherwise the fast teslas would be doing burnouts off the line too

If you can just mash the throttle and let the car sort it out, it takes away skill and involvement and therefore fun. And sometimes it's fun to break traction, especially on corners. It's a great solution for most cars, but not lightweight sports cars which should be playful, rather than chasing the fastest 0-60 time, or fastest lap. It's like the RWD vs 4WD and the manual vs automatic (let's not restart that one, it's just an example) discussions. 

 

Just because something is measurably better, doesn't mean it's more fun.

 

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6 hours ago, Sport Driver said:

I approve the choice of the car. Father just swapped his Laguna III for descendant of your 407, 508 II. 

Anyway, yesterday it was summer set cleaning day, the are now back in the storage for about 6 months 😞

 

 

 

<snip>

I really do love the look of the new 508s. Nice car.

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1 hour ago, Monkey Dust said:

If you can just mash the throttle and let the car sort it out, it takes away skill and involvement and therefore fun. And sometimes it's fun to break traction, especially on corners. It's a great solution for most cars, but not lightweight sports cars which should be playful, rather than chasing the fastest 0-60 time, or fastest lap. It's like the RWD vs 4WD and the manual vs automatic (let's not restart that one, it's just an example) discussions. 

 

Just because something is measurably better, doesn't mean it's more fun.

 

You’re right 

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2 hours ago, Monkey Dust said:

If you can just mash the throttle and let the car sort it out, it takes away skill and involvement and therefore fun. And sometimes it's fun to break traction, especially on corners. It's a great solution for most cars, but not lightweight sports cars which should be playful, rather than chasing the fastest 0-60 time, or fastest lap. It's like the RWD vs 4WD and the manual vs automatic (let's not restart that one, it's just an example) discussions. 

 

Just because something is measurably better, doesn't mean it's more fun.

 

I have to disagree that less involvement in the process means less fun.

 

That instant surge of EV torque is delightful from what I've experienced (not much, but I have), and there's something grand to knowing it's easily accessible at all times. You can mash the accelerator in short bursts rather than waiting for a chance to row the gears; you don't need to worry about RPM and ideal torque bands. It's the fun you can have during virtually any commute rather than waiting for a country backroad jaunt, and you don't have to develop expertise to enjoy it.

 

I suppose part of this is my philosophy behind... a lot of purchases, really. I like cars, watches, and other products where I can appreciate their value every time I use them, rather than having to save them for special moments. It pains me when people spend a small fortune on a car they either drive only seldomly or have to use gently. If you're afraid to use it, why did you buy it?

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fun after owning my Saab for a year I finally got to the magical point where I need an oil change lol

Because I don't drive it that much although that's changing.

 

So I have a synthetic oil change and filter replacement scheduled at a dealership right by my other work on Monday mid morning.

a Moo Floof connoisseur and curator.

:x@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie || Jake x Brendan :x
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5 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

fun after owning my Saab for a year I finally got to the magical point where I need an oil change lol

Because I don't drive it that much although that's changing.

 

So I have a synthetic oil change and filter replacement scheduled at a dealership right by my other work on Monday mid morning.

Mr 2000 mile oil changes @Real_PhillBert just died a little inside

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