FSLabs intentionally installing DRM that can steal your passwords

[Hellion]

It's companies like this that deserve to have their product pirated. Self-imposed vigilantes that think they are above the law and smarter than those that crack their shitty DRM. Clearly/sadly unaware that the very small fraction of likely hood that they do obtain information from a pirate that leads to the individuals apprehension, (which would take way more resources compared to any perceivable impact) it would be thrown out in court due to obtaining the evidence illegally.

 

Not sure what the point of this was other then to damage any little reputation they had.

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, Hellion said:

It's companies like this that deserve to have their product pirated.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

They should be taken to court, instead. Use the legal system. In this case, it's pretty clear that they've broken at least US and Canadian Law, and probably just about every developed nation's computer crimes laws.

[TopDollar]

On 2/19/2018 at 3:10 AM, Spotty said:

The real crime being committed here is the mod costs USD $99.95. No wonder people are pirating it.

 

On 2/19/2018 at 9:07 AM, Generallee said:

It's a company that makes overpriced mods for FSX and scams 50 year olds with 99$ scenery packs made in Google Sketchup.

 

On 2/19/2018 at 10:40 AM, asus killer said:

wait a minute... someone actually paid 100USD for an airplane in Microsoft Airplane Simulator. Sweet mother of good 

 

That's even worst then stealing all your passwords, this is a step down 

 

On 2/19/2018 at 12:30 PM, jonFezza said:

That's for the FSX version. The Prepar3D version costs $139.95...

 

Having been on the development side of a payware FSX addon, the really well done ones are well worth their price tag. Tons of R&D, experience with the actual airplane, excessive amounts of testing and bug fixing, etc. Even working on it full time, it can take a year or two before you have something suitable for release. Also, at least when I was involved, the majority of developers I knew were either very small teams or even just individuals doing what they loved. Meaning cost of the product is going to be higher since they can't produce products at a rate like a big company can. Unfortunately, there are always going to be a few bad apples out there (I have no experience with FSLabs). The Flight Sim community is so small that it kind of self-polices itself; weeding out the bad from the good.

[Biarzed]

This aircraft is basically training material, that's why it's a expensive as it is.

When you replicate all the systems of an aircraft of this complexity, charging 140$ is certainly not overpriced.

I believe most people don't understand the scale of that "DLC".

[samy_k97]

For those who are surprised that there are people who bought a $100+ product. Let me explain what are the differences between a AAA game and a Flight Simulation

 

AAA game: High Volume of Users = Low price 

 

Flight Simulation: Low Volume of Users = High Price

 

Add-ons are made from 3rd Party. So a small group is doing the hard work and provide with great content for us

 

When developing an add-on for Flight Simulation (especially aircrafts) we have to consider the amount of detail it has to be. And trying to be extremely accurate as in Flight Model, Systems, Sound, Ground Handling is very difficult to do in a short time and less cost.

 

 

It's difficult to obtain Data from Airbus or Boeing because it's all confidential. Most of the time developers have to rely on pilot feedback just so it feels right

 

Licensing comes at a cost. How the product will be used can define the cost

 

And one of the other reasons why the price is high is updates. For those who know FSX is a 32-bit application and it was a pain when you wanted to put High Res scenery and aircraft and when some companies started to make products for Prepar3d they upped the price so it covers the cost of a transition from 32 to 64 bit (Which happened with P3D v4), while others decided to keep their price and only charge for the transition.

 

If we had the amount of users that COD has maybe our costs would be drastically lower. For now, this is our reality

 

[DrMacintosh]

“I don’t like that people don’t pay for my flight sim” 

 

“I’ll steal their passwords to make it even” 

 

Yeah, no.....

[mr moose]

I wonder if this was made abundantly clear as a condition of installation whether it would be illegal?  I can't see how it would be considered malware.

[mr moose]

14 hours ago, TopDollar said:

snip

 

13 hours ago, Biarzed said:

snip

 

2 hours ago, samy_k97 said:

snip

 

You guys might just have to accept that no amount of reasoning is going to change the fact that this is a video game and thus the idea of $140 for an addon is going to be considered ridiculous by many people.

 

 

[D13H4RD]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 

You guys might just have to accept that no amount of reasoning is going to change the fact that this is a video game and thus the idea of $140 for an addon is going to be considered ridiculous by many people.

 

 

That’s the norm in FSX

 

High quality addon planes are expensive 

[mr moose]

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

That’s the norm in FSX

 

High quality addon planes are expensive 

be that as it may, to everyone else who doesn't give a cats bum,  it's expensive.

[Droidbot]

16 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

That’s the norm in FSX

 

High quality addon planes are expensive 

If people scoff at Paradox Games for packing their games with $200+ worth of DLC people will scoff at $140+ planes in a video game. 

[straight_stewie]

You steal software, we steal identity. Apparently that's how the world works now.

[mr moose]

35 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

You steal software, we steal identity. Apparently that's how the world works now.

Always has, it's just that only small time crooks have the balls to try and pull it off, larger companies employ lawyers who warn them not to do it and accountants who remind them not to bite the hand that feeds.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, Droidbot said:

If people scoff at Paradox Games for packing their games with $200+ worth of DLC people will scoff at $140+ planes in a video game. 

True and it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. 

 

But this has been going on for years. Though $140 is really steep, especially when quality planes can be had for $30

[TopDollar]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

 

You guys might just have to accept that no amount of reasoning is going to change the fact that this is a video game and thus the idea of $140 for an addon is going to be considered ridiculous by many people.

 

 

And many people also don't understand the value of what they're buying (or stealing). These addons are made to simulate a complex aircraft and its systems as accurately as possible. The people who buy this are spending hundreds of hours learning the airplane and its systems; not just putting around and pretending to fly. There are plenty of freeware addons for that.

 

$140 is certainly on the steep side though with $40-$50 is about average for the higher end stuff and $70-80 for the really complicated stuff. I can see why they would have a problem with piracy, but trying to combat that by installing malicious software is about as unethical as you can get. There are much less intrusive ways (and more legal ways) to combat piracy.

[iiNNeX]

Another reason to stop playing that silly old game lol

[LAwLz]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

I wonder if this was made abundantly clear as a condition of installation whether it would be illegal?  I can't see how it would be considered malware.

Do you think it would have been acceptable behavior if they informed users about this somewhere? Such as having it mentioned in the middle of some 50 page long TOS?

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Do you think it would have been acceptable behavior if they informed users about this somewhere? Such as having it mentioned in the middle of some 50 page long TOS?

Not to mention that a TOS/EULA that has a condition that violates law, is automatically invalidated.

 

You CANNOT give up your lawful rights in a contract. Any part of a contract that tries to do that is null and void (not the whole contract, just the condition that breaks law). This has been tested in court before, and has been upheld.

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, TopDollar said:

And many people also don't understand the value of what they're buying (or stealing). These addons are made to simulate a complex aircraft and its systems as accurately as possible. The people who buy this are spending hundreds of hours learning the airplane and its systems; not just putting around and pretending to fly. There are plenty of freeware addons for that.

 

Yeah, you said that bit already, it doesn't change what people think is ridiculous.

 

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Do you think it would have been acceptable behavior if they informed users about this somewhere? Such as having it mentioned in the middle of some 50 page long TOS?

I wouldn't have cared if the title was "plane addon that contains password stealing DRM if you fuck us over:".  then people have fair warning they are buying from unscrupulous cunts.

 

However my question was not would it be acceptable, but would it be illegal?

 

[LAwLz]

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

However my question was not would it be acceptable, but would it be illegal?

I don't know, but I sure hope it would be illegal. 

 

Edited. Like he said, I read the last word as legal. 

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't know, but I sure hope it wouldn't be.

Wait, you hope that a password stealing DRM is legal?

 

Please clarify.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Wait, you hope that a password stealing DRM is legal?

 

Please clarify.

EDITED:

 

He means he hopes it is illegal.  because the way I phrased the question, either word can be used at the end, sometimes because the brain is quicker than the eyes it automatically concludes the last word.   

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

EDITed:

 

 he means he hopes it is illegal.  because tyhe way I phrased the question either word can be used at the end.

I would assume that's what he meant. @LAwLz normally has opinions similar to mine, when it comes to bullshit tactics like stealing personal information, etc.

 

However, you said "would it be illegal?"

 

To which, he replied, "I sure hope it wouldn't be". An extrapolation of this statement equals: "I sure hope it wouldn't be illegal".

 

Double negative - which technically means the same thing as "I sure hope it would be legal".

 

Obviously, it's probably just a screw up in the convoluted language that is English.

[mr moose]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

I would assume that's what he meant. @LAwLz normally has opinions similar to mine, when it comes to bullshit tactics like stealing personal information, etc.

 

However, you said "would it be illegal?"

 

To which, he replied, "I sure hope it wouldn't be". An extrapolation of this statement equals: "I sure hope it wouldn't be illegal".

 

Double negative - which technically means the same thing as "I sure hope it would be legal".

 

Obviously, it's probably just a screw up in the convoluted language that is English.

I'm having trouble explaining what I think happened and edited my post.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I'm having trouble explaining what I think happened and edited my post.

No worries.

 

Anyway, I'm 99% sure this is illegal in Canada and the US. Probably in the UK, and Australia as well.

 

Just because pirating software is also illegal (depends on country), does not give them a free pass.