Need to power 16 drives

[KirbyTech]

I have a 4U server case that can handle 15 drive and I plan to put into another SSD just held in there for the OS drive. Is there any ATX power supply that would handle what I need? 

[dcgreen2k]

You could use a power calculator to figure it out, but if it's only a system and 16 drives, 650 watts should be safe.

[Guest]

Are they all SSDs?

 

Also depends on the drives.  Some drives need more power than others.  

[KirbyTech]

1 hour ago, thegreengamers said:

You could use a power calculator to figure it out, but if it's only a system and 16 drives, 650 watts should be safe.

I can do basic math yes. I am not asking what wattage will work but looking for good PSUs that will work. The drives are Seagate IronWolf 12TB except the SSD which will be just an old 128GB I got laying around.

 

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

Are they all SSDs?

 

Also depends on the drives.  Some drives need more power than others.  

The drives are Seagate IronWolf 12TB expect 1 old SSD for that boot drive I mentioned.

[Guest]

Ok.  The SSD is only going to use +5V.  The HDDs use +5V as well when they're being read, but unless all of them are running simultaneously, they won't be too bad.  

 

The problem is when the motors of those 15 drives all spin up at the same time.  Typically, you would want to use a controller card with a staggered startup feature.

 

Is this system already up and running and you're only adding an SSD?  If so, you shouldn't need to change out the PSU.  If not, let's talk about your SATA controller card.

[KirbyTech]

12 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Ok.  The SSD is only going to use +5V.  The HDDs use +5V as well when they're being read, but unless all of them are running simultaneously, they won't be too bad.  

 

The problem is when the motors of those 15 drives all spin up at the same time.  Typically, you would want to use a controller card with a staggered startup feature.

 

Is this system already up and running and you're only adding an SSD?  If so, you shouldn't need to change out the PSU.  If not, let's talk about your SATA controller card.

System is running with 3 HDD and a SSD currently. What controller car would I need to get? Also shouldn't the PSU still need 16 SATA connectors?

[mariushm]

You can buy molex to 2 x sata adapter cables :

 

straight : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400307

right angle : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16812400306

 

(I'm sure there's some cheaper, but at least StarTech isn't a no-name unknown chinese adapter, you have some minimum guarantee of quality)

 

Page 15 : https://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/product-content/ironwolf/en-us/docs/100807039d.pdf

 

 

 

Don't see the 12 TB models in datasheet but assume they use just slightly more power.

 

So just assume you need 5v at 0.3 A  and 12v at 0.75A per drive , or  4.5 A from 5v  and  ~ 11A from 12v  for 15 hard drives.

Still you would want a power supply with at least around 12-15 A reserved for the hard drives, because they'll use quite a bit more current when they start up and reach the normal operating rpm

 

The SSD creates its own voltages from 5v rail if it's SATA based, and will average less than 1w during use, but up to around 6-8 watts for milliseconds at a time when data is written to the flash chips by the controller.

 

[KirbyTech]

4 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Page 15 : https://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/product-content/ironwolf/en-us/docs/100807039d.pdf

 

--SNIP--

Don't see the 12 TB models in datasheet but assume they use just slightly more power.

 

So just assume you need 5v at 0.3 A  and 12v at 0.75A per drive , or  4.5 A from 5v  and  ~ 11A from 12v  for 15 hard drives.

Still you would want a power supply with at least around 12-15 A reserved for the hard drives, because they'll use quite a bit more current when they start up and reach the normal operating rpm

 

The SSD creates its own voltages from 5v rail if it's SATA based, and will average less than 1w during use, but up to around 6-8 watts for milliseconds at a time when data is written to the flash chips by the controller.

 

So would a Corsair HX1000i be a good choice? 

[r3loAded]

5 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Don't see the 12 TB models in datasheet but assume they use just slightly more power.

I think he's looking for a power supply that has enough SATA power connectors for all his 15 hard drives. (cel putin asta inteleg eu din cerinta lui)

[mariushm]

It would be overkill , way too much and too expensive for what you need.

 

Seasonic Focus Plus 850w is only 120$ , 100$ after mail in rebates:   https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151188

 

It's high quality , 10 year warranty, it has 10 SATA and 5 molex, so you'd be able to use 3-5 molex to create 6-10 sata connectors, for a total of 16-20 sata connectors.

 

Or you can buy TWO of these for 200-250$  in total and use the SATA strips from the 2nd power supply with the first , each power supply has 4 connectors which accept strips of molex or sata connectors, they're same pinout, same power supply connector.

 

You'd also have a hot spare, if you're so unlucky the psu dies, you pull out the second psu and replace the original, and send the first one to warranty/rma.

 

Each of these Seasonic power supplies come with these strips, and you can only use 4 out of the 5 at any time :

 

5.25"+5.25"	350+120mm
5.25"+5.25"+5.25	450+120+120mm
SATA+SATA	460+120mm
SATA+SATA+SATA+SATA	460+120+120+120mm
SATA+SATA+SATA+SATA	460+120+120+120mm

 

 

So you could buy two power supplies and use the 2 x 4 sata strips from each power supply for a total of 4 x 4 sata connectors.

 

Or you can mix and match, for example use 3 x 4 sata  and 1 x 3 molex  to create 6 more sata connectors using molex to 2 x sata adapters, so you'd have 18 sata connectors in total.

 

The 1000w and higher power supplies are way too  expensive because of miners these days, makes no sense to spend 400$+ on a 1000w psu.

 

 

[KirbyTech]

4 hours ago, mariushm said:

It would be overkill , way too much and too expensive for what you need.

 

Seasonic Focus Plus 850w is only 120$ , 100$ after mail in rebates:   https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151188

 

It's high quality , 10 year warranty, it has 10 SATA and 5 molex, so you'd be able to use 3-5 molex to create 6-10 sata connectors, for a total of 16-20 sata connectors.

 

Or you can buy TWO of these for 200-250$  in total and use the SATA strips from the 2nd power supply with the first , each power supply has 4 connectors which accept strips of molex or sata connectors, they're same pinout, same power supply connector.

 

You'd also have a hot spare, if you're so unlucky the psu dies, you pull out the second psu and replace the original, and send the first one to warranty/rma.

 

Each of these Seasonic power supplies come with these strips, and you can only use 4 out of the 5 at any time :

 

So you could buy two power supplies and use the 2 x 4 sata strips from each power supply for a total of 4 x 4 sata connectors.

 

Or you can mix and match, for example use 3 x 4 sata  and 1 x 3 molex  to create 6 more sata connectors using molex to 2 x sata adapters, so you'd have 18 sata connectors in total.

 

The 1000w and higher power supplies are way too  expensive because of miners these days, makes no sense to spend 400$+ on a 1000w psu.

 

 

While the number of SATA connectors might work with the 2 PSU option it won't work for me. I am using a case that is 3 bays of 5 drives plus that SSD that will be far away from the rest of the drives so it needs it's own cable. Having 16 connectors on 4 cables won't work unless it is 3 with 5 and 1 with 1+  or some combo that would work. That is why I was looking at higher powered ones. Since they have more connection options. For me pricing is not a huge deal, I want it $300CAD and under but other than that IDC.

[Guest]

I would be more concerned with the heavy load of 16 drives spinning up than the PSU having enough SATA connectors.  Even if the PSU has enough power available on the +12V rail, 16 drives spinning up at once is a hell of a transient load.  That's why RAID controller cards have a staggered start up feature.

 

[KirbyTech]

13 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

I would be more concerned with the heavy load of 16 drives spinning up than the PSU having enough SATA connectors.  Even if the PSU has enough power available on the +12V rail, 16 drives spinning up at once is a hell of a transient load.  That's why RAID controller cards have a staggered start up feature.

 

What products would you recommend then? I am using a SAS RAID card now, not sure of the model but it is low end and needs to be upgraded as part of this project. 

[MasterChromatica]

I would go 850 or 1000, that way you have that extra power when the PSU starts to age.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, KirbyTech said:

What products would you recommend then? I am using a SAS RAID card now, not sure of the model but it is low end and needs to be upgraded as part of this project. 

If it's so cheap that you don't even know the brand, it's not going to support staggered start up.  Card from reputable manufacturers like Adaptec and High Point have this feature as well as intelligent power management.

[mariushm]

2 hours ago, KirbyTech said:

While the number of SATA connectors might work with the 2 PSU option it won't work for me. I am using a case that is 3 bays of 5 drives plus that SSD that will be far away from the rest of the drives so it needs it's own cable. Having 16 connectors on 4 cables won't work unless it is 3 with 5 and 1 with 1+  or some combo that would work. That is why I was looking at higher powered ones. Since they have more connection options. For me pricing is not a huge deal, I want it $300CAD and under but other than that IDC.

 

If you need such a custom arrangement, you could always make your own strips of connectors. 

 

You can buy sata power connectors with around  5" (~ 12.5 cm) of wires factory made :

 

1. 3.5$ each (straight connectors) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0887511410/WM3623-ND/2405312

2. 5$ each (right angle, with latch) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0685610020/WM8714-ND/2567843

 

and you can also buy  MOLEX to SATA adapters, like this one : 

 

3. 1.6$  molex to sata : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0887511311/WM12809-ND/5117066

 

and if you want, add some AWG18 or AWG16 cable to your order.
 

You can cut this adapter cable in half, and add as much wire as you need to make the right length (use common sense, let's say 1-2 meters max) and at the end of the wires, you can solder the wires from those 5 sata connectors. Maybe use a bit of heatshrink over the solder to make the adapter cable look nice. 

It's simple, yellow to yellow wire (12v) , red to red (5v) , black to black (ground).

 

You're paying around 25-30$ to make your own  molex to 5 sata adapter cable but you're saving 100-200$ on the power supply.

 

Now you could even use a cheaper 650w power supply, as long as you have enough molex connectors for your  molex to 5xsata adapter cables.

 

If you want, I can make such a custom adapter cable for you, as long as you're willing to pay for shipping and the

 

[KirbyTech]

6 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

If it's so cheap that you don't even know the brand, it's not going to support staggered start up.  Card from reputable manufacturers like Adaptec and High Point have this feature as well as intelligent power management.

Yeah there is one I have been looking at getting as a somewhat future proof card, it is fairly expensive and should support most things.

It's this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00C7JNPSQ/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3CHQZ9KTWSQ0W&colid=13QVQOU4Z9XLL&psc=0

[KirbyTech]

5 hours ago, mariushm said:

 

If you need such a custom arrangement, you could always make your own strips of connectors. 

 

You can buy sata power connectors with around  5" (~ 12.5 cm) of wires factory made :

 

1. 3.5$ each (straight connectors) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0887511410/WM3623-ND/2405312

2. 5$ each (right angle, with latch) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0685610020/WM8714-ND/2567843

 

and you can also buy  MOLEX to SATA adapters, like this one : 

 

3. 1.6$  molex to sata : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0887511311/WM12809-ND/5117066

 

and if you want, add some AWG18 or AWG16 cable to your order.
 

You can cut this adapter cable in half, and add as much wire as you need to make the right length (use common sense, let's say 1-2 meters max) and at the end of the wires, you can solder the wires from those 5 sata connectors. Maybe use a bit of heatshrink over the solder to make the adapter cable look nice. 

It's simple, yellow to yellow wire (12v) , red to red (5v) , black to black (ground).

 

You're paying around 25-30$ to make your own  molex to 5 sata adapter cable but you're saving 100-200$ on the power supply.

 

Now you could even use a cheaper 650w power supply, as long as you have enough molex connectors for your  molex to 5xsata adapter cables.

 

If you want, I can make such a custom adapter cable for you, as long as you're willing to pay for shipping and the

 

How long would you say it would take to make the cables? Maybe it would be worth going with say cable mod or someone similar if it takes too long to be worth it. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, KirbyTech said:

Yeah there is one I have been looking at getting as a somewhat future proof card, it is fairly expensive and should support most things.

It's this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00C7JNPSQ/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3CHQZ9KTWSQ0W&colid=13QVQOU4Z9XLL&psc=0

You say you have 12TB drives, but the Highpoint card's description says "capable of supporting up to 40 4TB 6Gb/s SATA disks".

 

The Hgihpoint website says "40 8TB 6Gb/s SATA disks".  Who knows what's correct, but it seems like 12TB might be a bit much.

 

But that card does support staggered start up, so you don't have to worry about the PSU having enough power... just enough connectors.

[KirbyTech]

1 minute ago, jonnyGURU said:

You say you have 12TB drives, but the Highpoint card's description says "capable of supporting up to 40 4TB 6Gb/s SATA disks".

 

The Hgihpoint website says "40 8TB 6Gb/s SATA disks".  Who knows what's correct, but it seems like 12TB might be a bit much.

 

But that card does support staggered start up, so you don't have to worry about the PSU having enough power... just enough connectors.

The reason I picked that card was that I believe it is the one 45Drives uses which Linus used for 10TB drives. I will have to look into it more and find out the actual specs of it. Thanks for checking that, I didn't even think to check. I just kind of figured it would work from what I remembered which I guess was wrong. 

[Guest]

You could always drop Highpoint support an email.  

 

It's a good card.

 

[KirbyTech]

12 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

You could always drop Highpoint support an email.  

 

It's a good card.

 

Thanks I will send one off to them and see. It does look to be a good card and price is not too... bad considering the total cost already.