BEST AM4 motherboard with legacy PCI?

[hunsnotdead]

On 2/16/2020 at 2:34 PM, temporalsounds said:

Especially I was looking for Xeon E-2236  6c/12th,Cache 12 MB ,TDP 80 W  for this C246 M.B.

Yeah its a fancy and expensive way to have a Z390 board with a slightly clock increased i7 8700. But now with PCI graphics! (tho im fairly sure a Coffe Lake GT2 IGP could beat a PCI GT610 if the Xeon had one, and nVidia stopped driver updates for Fermi cards 2 years ago so they are stuck at Intel IGP update dates, also interesting fact is both support DX12, nV backported the new Win10 DX just before the support period ended)

 

And yes sadly after 2,5 years nothing changed in PCI land apart from the options getting even more trimmed, its a suprise Asus still sells their board. Im guessing they still sell decently because they work with newer processors while its peers might not. R5 3600 would be a nice fit (wouldnt strain the VRMs all that much), and certainly cheaper than the Intel alternative.

[ZzLy]

On 12/20/2017 at 4:10 PM, Aggravated Salmon said:

I was browsing the newegg site for an am4 motherboard with legacy pci and my options were EXTREMELY limited. I have this very very expensive (450USD) Creative SB leagcy PCI sound card and I really want to use it on my upcoming RYZEN build but i have absolutely no idea what motherboard to choose. man, can't at least 1 mid end board have legacy PCI. i know it's old tech and stuff but come on, people are not going to use up the extra 2-3 pci-e slots. i think that they will capture a decent market share if they actually make a half decent ryzen motherboard with leagcy PCI (people with old but gold sound cards).

 

Anyway enough of the whining, my options are as follows (ignoring a320 and mATX):

Asus PRIME B350-PLUS (very badly reviewed at least on newegg which is where i'm buying from)

Asus PRIME X370-A (hugely horrendous price/performance) (terrible VRMs for a 130USD board)

Biostar B350GT5 (biostar always has been the most reliable board for me but it's apparently trash for ryzen) (no top vrm heatsinks)

Biostar X370GT5 (^^)

MSI B350 GAMING PLUS (it's fkin msi, my last msi board caught on fire and ALL of my MSI boards failed some way or another, also apparently has trash BIOS)

MSI B350 PC MATE (^^)

MSI B350 TOMAHAWK (^^)

MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ARCTIC (^^)

 

all i want is a reliable board that can keep a ryzen 7 1700x overclocked to hopefully 4ghz (liquid cooled by EVGA CLC 280) without VRMs going over 100 deg c and degrading the temperature sensitive capacitors beside the VRMs. this is gonna be a high end 1080 Ti build anyways. (btw i'll make sure every single place i can put a fan in my case has a fan installed so hopefully that can factor into the temperature of the VRMs) (of course onboard audio can be ignored)

 

what would you choose? thanks!

You can buy a PCIe to PCI adapter.

[VinnieV]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:34 AM, temporalsounds said:

Hunsnotdead :"supports everything from 8100 to 9900k plus some Xeon models nobody ever heard of"...

 

Especially I was looking for Xeon E-2236  6c/12th,Cache 12 MB ,TDP 80 W  for this C246 M.B.

 

Ah yes,that Asus PRIME X370-A  looks great.(PCI slots included ) M.2 slot too.No chipset fan .I like it. I missed this one MB before.

edit: hmm,there is at first post of this topic hehe

The price is exactly €100,-  here in market, still avaiable.If this MB supports Ryzen 3000 ,that would be great !(updated bios).

I think,R5 3600 6c/12th would be good/best choice for me.

Thanks a lot.

I've been on the hunt for an AM4 mobo with legacy PCI slots for the last 2 weeks and have just purchased one directly from Biostar in Taiwan directly - an X470GTA. I did an international money order. Likely to cost approx $315 NZD all up incl. freight (around $180 USD). I'm looking to get an 2700X processor and 16GB of memory for it and use existing parts from my current i2500K build. The main requirement is that I have M-Audio Delta 8 in/out PCI soundcard that I want to use for recording. Unsure if I need to get hold of a "cheap" AMD processor to update the BIOS or if the 2700X works out of the box ... any ideas?

[hunsnotdead]

On 2/18/2020 at 1:09 PM, ZzLy said:

You can buy a PCIe to PCI adapter.

How will that work exactly?

 

PCI/AGP/PCIe adapters were available since, ugh, i dunno, Voodoo 5 5500 vs AGP 8x times i guess, but i havent seen one instance it wasnt used in some cryptominer type open build.

ATX cases are not really built to house expansion cards that need 2-3 centimeters raised backplane mounting. In those cases that accept riser cards it may be possible to install an adapter instead of the original 90° riser, but since most are very small form factor the adapter may prove too big to fit even there.

 

5 hours ago, VinnieV said:

I've been on the hunt for an AM4 mobo with legacy PCI slots for the last 2 weeks and have just purchased one directly from Biostar in Taiwan directly - an X470GTA

The X470GTA is a great find, and proves i cant rely on webstore filters to find needles in a haystack. PCI is getting so rare new motherbioards and expansion cards are simply not tagged and categorised properly. (not to mention used hardware ads, ppl cant differentiate between PCI, PCI 64 bit, and PCIe )

 

Also its like chasing ghosts: it was available around here until at least 2019 december for 110-120 euros, but interest was so light, distributor pulled the plug on it. Some shops may or may not had leftover stock, but even the last ones got delisted few days ago.

 

[temporalsounds]

No more these MoBo's at the stock here. Thank you guys for nice tips !!!

 

[karmakazzii]

Hey Temporalsounds,

 

I'm in the same boat. I also have a pci card (yamaha ds2416) quite old but still rocks. Yamaha never upgraded their drivers for 64bit, so I have to still use 32 OS. and being that one of the developers for software control has made the unit awesome (DSPCTRL), plus the fact all of the processors are hardwired - its only now that software mixer are getting closer to the speed of the unit, and even then it only takes a few physical modeling app to drag the system down (pops/drop out) that I still have the unit.

 

but the control app is worth the effort in keeping it running. Yamaha dropped the ds2416 line - it didnt make sense in having a relatively cheaper pc system compete with the O2R which has about the same power and features (and I have two of those units as well).

 

 

Interestingly enough on the intel side there are several board manufactures that make pci slotted mobo's (5 slots of pci) that can take the i9's and i7's, but I'm a AMD fan being its quite cheaper and they have more cores. Ideally the 16 core unit I was looking for but my thinking is it will still be some time before the same mobo manufactures will get around with the pci slotted units for the ryzen platform. the other thought was to use the pcie to pci converter or  possible use the magma pci expansion unit, which they  have a pcie to pci. My ds2416 card gags two  together to make a 48 input/ 4 fx unit/32 output. it also has ADAT option which also eats up two slots. then I have a bunch of scsi drives that i still use for older samplers so the magma expansion is looking more interesting. I did managed to use one of those pcie to pci converters and they work fine. but to have everything in one box would make it easier to setup. 

 

Yamaha higher ended systems are going with their DME series of mixer engines, but at a cost. same goes with Protools. they have custom DSP units for full work flow thats more hardware oriented, reducing the problems with cpu overloading/delay issues. maybe in a few yrs I'll get one - mind you a buddy of mine has a full studer 24 analog and it still sound great. and it costs about the same as a good digital system.

 

Anyway best of luck with your venture

 

 

 

 

[temporalsounds]

@karmakazzii

Hey,

sorry for late response.

Thank you for nice interesting article,explanation about your sound cards.I was googling a bit about DS2416 and looks like a very 'rock' piece of hardware.

It's nice ,how somebody(including me create specific relationship with HW and sometimes is hard to say good-bye to it...   

Control app. is via HOSTS ? ,it's disadvantage and pity, it doesn't have 64bit drivers!Your 32bit operating system can't use more RAM now...

Fortunately, my E-MU DSP card-WDE,ASIO2 drivers works fine under W7 x64.

About AMD:My first own computer I builded was with AMD processor:Server Dual core Opteron 180,(soc.939).My parents use it still until now.Then Intel hit AMD with Core2D.

My next CPU build (in 2012 yr.) was IvyBridge 22nm, I'm using still until now...Motherboard with two PCI legacy slots there !!

 So ,does that PCIe > to PCI converters work fine ? I'm worried about some issues,delays or more compatibility not working features..

Thanks for your response again!

edit:Stay in good health.

TS

 

[Foksadure]

Interesting thread for oldschooldawers.

http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php/board,286.0.html

 

FWIW, I recently found out M-Audio Delta PCI soundcards were not working at all on the '2012 Z77 chipset, because of the PCI-E to conventional PCI bridge.

'2011 Z68 was just fine.

 

So 8 years later, I wouldn't hold my breath using such a legacy card on a recent PCI downgraded mobo natively unsupported by the main chipset, and most likely using some bridging device.

 

Gee, there even are ISA slots on some niche Intel LGA 1151 based motherboards:

https://ipc.msi.com/product_detail/Industrial-Motherboard/ATX/MS-98L9-V2.0

[temporalsounds]

On 7/9/2020 at 8:28 PM, Foksadure said:

Interesting thread for oldschooldawers.

http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php/board,286.0.html

 

FWIW, I recently found out M-Audio Delta PCI soundcards were not working at all on the '2012 Z77 chipset, because of the PCI-E to conventional PCI bridge.

'2011 Z68 was just fine.

 

So 8 years later, I wouldn't hold my breath using such a legacy card on a recent PCI downgraded mobo natively unsupported by the main chipset, and most likely using some bridging device.

Hi.

As ZzLy said about PCI adapter,

Today just tested expansion card(PCIe to PCI legacy).I can confirm that this expansion card is 100% working with E-MU 1616m PCI sound cards with no issues.

Tested with older Gigabyte Z68 chipset, LGA1155 soc. motherboard ,connected to PCIe x1 ,

Op.system : Windows 7 64bit.

Windows 7 automatically installed drivers for this expansion card,I restarted system and sound card is working.

I didn't test this piece of hardware on Windows 10 yet.

Thank you guys for this thread...

Thanks Foksadure  for links

 

EDIT: E-MU soundcard thread on Windows 10 (forum):

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=529349

 

[temporalsounds]

LGA1200 Intel B460 motherboard with PCI legacy slot :

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-B460M-C-CSM/

 

EDIT 24.9.2020 : AM4 soc.Asus A520M-C/CSM  :https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-A520M-C-CSM/

[temporalsounds]

On 7/12/2020 at 7:53 PM, temporalsounds said:

LGA1200 Intel B460 motherboard with PCI legacy slot :

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-B460M-C-CSM/

 

AM4 soc. with legacy PCI : https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-A520M-C-CSM/

[hunsnotdead]

On 9/24/2020 at 4:14 PM, temporalsounds said:

AM4 soc. with legacy PCI : https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-A520M-C-CSM/

Oh, that looks nasty.

Its cheap(x0.6 compared to B460 Plus), but im no sure it could support a Ryzen 3600X or 3700, not to mention anything Zen2+ will bring us.

 

 

I think this is the only sane PCI board currently available:

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/PRIME-B460-PLUS/

 

Yeah its a lower middle end option as far as LGA1200 is concerned, and its almost identical to the B360 version(USB 3.0 only, no 3.1, no 3.2, and ALC887 is proper ancient at this point), but it has fair VRM section enough for a 10400, 10600, and maybe even a 10700 without catching fire. Also two M.2 slots, and a very good expansion card layout, possibly the best a combined PCIe+PCI board can have.

[temporalsounds]

On 9/28/2020 at 6:08 PM, hunsnotdead said:

Oh, that looks nasty.

Its cheap(x0.6 compared to B460 Plus), but im no sure it could support a Ryzen 3600X or 3700, not to mention anything Zen2+ will bring us.

 

Yeah its a lower middle end option as far as LGA1200 is concerned, and its almost identical to the B360 version(USB 3.0 only, no 3.1, no 3.2, and ALC887 is proper ancient at this point), but it has fair VRM section enough for a 10400, 10600, and maybe even a 10700 without catching fire. Also two M.2 slots, and a very good expansion card layout, possibly the best a combined PCIe+PCI board can have.

Yes,looks nasty  But I think it supports new CPUs with this B520 chipset.

Support list found on Asus web for this motherboard:

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-A520M-C-CSM/HelpDesk_CPU/

 

Your Asus Prime B460 Plus for Intel brand is great found.It is avaiable here for about €115 inc VAT.Good price to me.

I have to inform you, that I have already purchased Gigabyte B450 Aorus M(Micro ATX) motherboard (€85,-) and I will use that PCIe >> PCI adapter with this MB in ATX tower.(https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B450-AORUS-M-rev-10#kf)

I guess, everything will run OK under Windows 10,(maybe Windows 7).I didn't decided yet about op.system to use for music . I don't need DX12. I'll let you know soon

Thanks for reply hunsnotdead !

 

[ohmar]

Let's all contact AMD to put presure on motherboard manufacturers to develop boards with legacy pci support (at least 1 model per chipset each brand). I still have some pci hardware (couple of xfi cards, emu0404, audiophile 2496 and a couple pci cards with firewire ports for my ozonic and firewire 410) working with a couple b350 systems (mostly tnx to this post) and don't want to drop them in an upcoming upgrade. Cause atm the only decent b550 board I know of with legacy pci is this Biostar Racing B550GTA and for the b450 chipset I found none.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15850/the-amd-b550-motherboard-overview-asus-gigabyte-msi-asrock-and-others/21

 

[temporalsounds]

Hey ohmar !

Good idea to contact them hehe  Seriously.... I think there is a lot of HW for this  PCI interface still available for customers they want to use still.

MB manufacturers are focused for gamers more now,adding many PCIe x16 slots for GPUs cards.I never used more than one Graphic cards in my PCs.Weird.

OK ,in one PCIe x16 slot ,I have connected NVMe SSD,that's fine and useful.

 

WOW! Biostar B550GTA .A  modern B550 MB with PCI slot,two PCIe 4.0 x4 M.2 slots(one of them operating in PCIe 3.0 x4) with cooler!

Never found here at our sellers,surprised now!:)Best found newer motherboard for AMD platform here with this PCI legacy slot.

THANK YOU so much ohmar  !!!

 

 

[Jeo Max]

I refresh this thread, because there's a new player, maybe looks a bit "oldish", but it is a B550 chipset, two M.2 slots, a PCIe 4.0 and USB 3.2, and obviously one PCI slot. Funny thing is Asus declared this board as a BUSINESS class, very sad to people like me who want to use Delta 2496 sound card to get into ... this... Welcome back to 2000

https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/Pro-B550M-C-CSM/specifications/

[BTGbullseye]

11 hours ago, Jeo Max said:

very sad to people like me who want to use Delta 2496 sound card

With a simple external adapter for connectivity compatibility, most onboard sound cards can beat that dedicated card now. Just an FYI.

[PureLIN]

Please note that all the motherboard mentioned before is using a chip (commonly asm1083) to convert pcie signal to pci.
That makes no different with some adapter using asm1083 in logical, may be the pcb layout on motherboard will make it a slightly better than adapter.
The only true legacy pci slot disappear after 2-gen intel motherboard.
Just buy a pci-e to pci adpter and buy any motherboard with an extra pci-e x1 slot is good enought.

[hunsnotdead]

On 12/10/2020 at 1:58 AM, BTGbullseye said:

With a simple external adapter for connectivity compatibility, most onboard sound cards can beat that dedicated card now. Just an FYI.

 

Im fairly sure he will have a much harder time finding a driver for that Envy24 chipped ancient Delta 24/96 that finally works under Win10 (AFAIK VT1712 Envy24 vanilla had a tough time getting Vista or Win7 drivers, VT1724 HT, VT1721 HT-S versions were better supported but were different internally), than to bother to compare it with a very expensive well equipped Realtek ALC1220 or ESS Sabre board for an upgrade.

 

As it stands overwhelming majority of motherboards(the above mentioned Asus B550 PCI board uses 887, just like my Asus P8B75-V board from 8 years ago - the insanely popular MSI B450 Tomahawk / Mortar Max boards use 892) are _still_ released with not-so-up-to-date ALC887 and ALC892 codecs(they are from the Vista era, when Realtec switched to HDA from AC97) with the bare minimum of electronics that make their functioning possible, and with mostly only analogue in and outputs provided.

Direct double blind listening test comparing the ancient higher-end Delta interface with todays "standard mediocre"  892 like integrated chips would certainly be interesting, but im not so sure about the formers absolute superiority.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 8:16 AM, PureLIN said:

Please note that all the motherboard mentioned before is using a chip (commonly asm1083) to convert pcie signal to pci.
That makes no different with some adapter using asm1083 in logical, may be the pcb layout on motherboard will make it a slightly better than adapter.
The only true legacy pci slot disappear after 2-gen intel motherboard.
Just buy a pci-e to pci adpter and buy any motherboard with an extra pci-e x1 slot is good enought.

Ye, 2012 Ivy Bridge vintage B75, and Q75 chipsets is where the fun stopped.

PCI-PCIe bridges could be a solution, but only in specific cases.

 

The in place adapter could work well enough with half height cards. 

The ribbon cable extender needs a totally free backplate expansion slot not blocked by the motherboard, so that means mATX/ITX board in a full ATX case, or some kind of small form factor arrangement where the case expects an expansion board riser present anyway.

Some normal ATX cases do have a free backplate slot for whatever reason, so a cable version could work there too. 

[Jeo Max]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:58 AM, BTGbullseye said:

With a simple external adapter for connectivity compatibility, most onboard sound cards can beat that dedicated card now. Just an FYI.

Any onboard "card" - which is commonly a Realtek chip with EMI shielded tracks, doesn't feature MIDI interface, nor is anywhere near 0-latency feature which disqualifies if from DAW audio recording. I didn't check a "musical scene" with the newest integrated chips, but I remember when I connected Delta first time to my PC, I was surprised how distinct all instruments sound, I almost was able to indicate a positioning each of them in a group. I doubt I could do this with Realtek, but even if I could, there are still 2 mentioned before features lacking.

Obviously I could buy 2 different cards/interfaces instead of using one (Delta), but it's not a point (by the way, I've got a second sound PCIe card already for other tasks). Why 2 instead of 1 if possible? Useless. I will force searching new motherboard with all required components to keep an order inside the casing :)

Please note it is a "which board with a legacy PCI" thread, and not "1000 issues to convince me not to buy a board with legacy PCI" :)

[Alexlotta]

Nice thread I 've registered here just for that one been looking since long ,I'm too used to my card and his kxdrivers.my pc still would rock as hell even if is from 2013 is super fast ,but sadly is having hardware issues lately (z97 a asus with 32gb ram and legacy perfectly working pci  slot with a 4790k intel ).must look at a new system and it pains me as hell to get rid of my cards .l 'm COMPLETELY ignorant about new chipsets and stuff.also I did not get if op had used the adapter ,if it needs a certain case and the exact brand of it or found a new mobo with all the new stuff+ a working legacy pci..that is me wondering about hardware after 10 years .. terribly lost .and would like something powerful enough to forget for  some years again

[BTGbullseye]

6 hours ago, Jeo Max said:

Please note it is a "which board with a legacy PCI" thread, and not "1000 issues to convince me not to buy a board with legacy PCI"

You do know that there's a reason we're trying to convince you not to look for a board with legacy PCI, right? It's because they really don't exist in the consumer space for modern platforms. We're not hating on your soundcard for no reason.

[hunsnotdead]

On 1/23/2021 at 10:15 PM, BTGbullseye said:

It's because they really don't exist in the consumer space for modern platforms.

Oh dear, did they discontinue all the above listed options this fast?

 

On 1/23/2021 at 10:15 PM, BTGbullseye said:

You do know that there's a reason

Oh theres plenty of that around. 

 

Techspot - So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

 

From 2006 to 2011 the "we" crowd told the people in need that using a PCI video card is dumb, useless, and futile, so prepared to be assimilated by the AGP.. PCIe 1.0.. PCIe 2.0.. PCIe 3.0 hivemind!

 

In that timespan the top available GPU with a conventional PCI connector went from Geforce 6200 to 7300 GT, Radeon X1300, X1550, Geforce GT 8400 GS / Radeon 2400 Pro, GT 8500, GT210, GT 8600 then GT 9500, (Radeon HD4350 and HD5450 in some parts as global distribution was not even), then finished with GT 430 and GT 520 / 610. Many of which were not mentioned there because the "we" people continually and fervently argued that theres no point to the whole thread, and _everone_ should use whatever most mainstream options were out there like any self respecting adult with a sound mind.

[Jeo Max]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:15 PM, BTGbullseye said:

You do know that there's a reason we're trying to convince you not to look for a board with legacy PCI, right?

My over 30-years computer experience didn't ask you for a help in this matter, sir and this is a polite petition to end this sub-thread at this stage. Thank you in advance

[Guest]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:21 AM, Jeo Max said:

I refresh this thread, because there's a new player, maybe looks a bit "oldish", but it is a B550 chipset, two M.2 slots, a PCIe 4.0 and USB 3.2, and obviously one PCI slot. Funny thing is Asus declared this board as a BUSINESS class, very sad to people like me who want to use Delta 2496 sound card to get into ... this... Welcome back to 2000

 

https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/Pro-B550M-C-CSM/specifications/

Awesome find actually. In the future I may purchase this to toy around with. I have an Old Ageia Physx processing unit that doesn't get played with much anymore. Although it is actually in my socket A system, it will be boxed again before the weekend is over.

 

Found that B550 C/CSM here at Walmart actually of all places. 119 bucks. Link

 

I kinda dig the legacy green PCB. Don't see that much anymore on desktop systems unless it's OEM.