Is Pascal as Far as Ryzen Can Go?

[Emberstone]

Hey there, dumb question. So I've got a 1600X at 4.0 GHz, and I'm noticing that even with a newer game like Destiny 2 that seems to put a load on every thread, I'm still seeing GPU usage on my GTX 1070 dropping to ~70% in many cases with max settings and 1080p. The only games I have that can keep my 1070 at 100% usage throughout the entire playtime are No Man's Sky (lol), Overwatch, and Doom. Other games I have can't.

 

It seems like Ryzen is already holding back Pascal cards. My question is, is this as far as I can go? I built this PC earlier this year to prep for Destiny 2 and chose Ryzen since the game was already being touted as scaling well with many threads, but it seems like it doesn't really matter as Gamers Nexus pointed out. I'm honestly kinda disappointed. I've even dipped below 60 fps in the Tower and in large public events already, with low GPU usage as indication that the CPU is what's holding me back.

 

It's almost as if Ryzen can't handle anything better than a 1070 at 1080p which is pretty disappointing. My last PC used an i7-980X, and that lasted me seven years before starting to hold me back (got it as a surplus from my dad's business. I can't actually afford $1000+ CPUs. Lol). I was hoping to go at least one full year before feeling my system holding me back, but here I am.

 

Since Destiny 2 was one of the biggest reasons I built this PC, and honestly doesn't perform that much better on my Ryzen rig than it does on my 980X rig, should I just sell this and build an 8600K system, or something?

[Master Disaster]

6 hours ago, Od1sseas said:

-snip-

Source or stop posting nonsense.

 

6 hours ago, Emberstone said:

Hey there, dumb question. So I've got a 1600X at 4.0 GHz, and I'm noticing that even with a newer game like Destiny 2 that seems to put a load on every thread, I'm still seeing GPU usage on my GTX 1070 dropping to ~70% in many cases with max settings and 1080p. The only games I have that can keep my 1070 at 100% usage throughout the entire playtime are No Man's Sky (lol), Overwatch, and Doom. Other games I have can't.

 

It seems like Ryzen is already holding back Pascal cards. My question is, is this as far as I can go? I built this PC earlier this year to prep for Destiny 2 and chose Ryzen since the game was already being touted as scaling well with many threads, but it seems like it doesn't really matter as Gamers Nexus pointed out. I'm honestly kinda disappointed. I've even dipped below 60 fps in the Tower and in large public events already, with low GPU usage as indication that the CPU is what's holding me back.

 

It's almost as if Ryzen can't handle anything better than a 1070 at 1080p which is pretty disappointing as I came from an i7-980X, which lasted me seven years before starting to hold me back (got it as a surplus from my dad's business. I can't actually afford $1000+ CPUs. Lol).

 

Since Destiny 2 was one of the biggest reasons I built this PC, and honestly doesn't perform that much better on my Ryzen rig than it does on my 980X rig, should I just sell this and build an 8600K system, or something?

If you have games which are capable of fully saturating your GPU then your issue cannot be your CPU. A bottleneck is a bottleneck and would happen on every game, not just a selection.

 

Sounds to me more like Destiny 2 isn't optimised well for Ryzen or there is another issue going on. Are you running the latest GRD?

[FloRolf]

What is your cpu usage then? 

[Emberstone]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

Sounds to me more like Destiny 2 isn't optimised well for Ryzen or there is another issue going on. Are you running the latest GRD?

That's exactly the problem. It doesn't matter that I get 200-300 points higher than a 7700K in Cinebench, games aren't using it, and likely won't since time and time again it's being proven that gaming is a mostly serial, not parallel process. And yes, I'm on the latest Nvidia drivers.

[HKZeroFive]

Destiny 2 is one of those games that thrives on single-threaded performance despite people saying it'll utilise so-and-so amount of threads (and once again proving that utilisation of more threads doesn't mean more performance).

 

It's one game. You can't make a blanket statement and say "oh, since Ryzen doesn't perform well in this game with my GTX 1070, does this mean that Ryzen can't handle Pascal in general?!". The answer is no. In many other games, R5 1600 can handle a GTX 1070 fine.

 

Besides, it's been well-documented that for 1080p 144Hz gaming, Intel's processors are usually a better choice. At 1080p, you're eventually going to hit a CPU bottleneck if the GPU is powerful enough.

[Emberstone]

5 hours ago, FloRolf said:

Then how about answering my question I stead of shit posting? 

I wasn't the one shit posting?

 

Anyway, 40-50% usage with SMT enabled. 80-90% usage without SMT. Framerates similar regardless.

 

5 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

It's one game.

But it isn't. I can list several others.

 

5 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

it's been well-documented that for 1080p 144Hz gaming, Intel's processors are usually a better choice.

Well, then I messed up and need to start over. If I knew Coffee Lake was coming this soon back in May I would've waited.

[Guest]

Ryzen is fine, pretty sure doesn't bottleneck the GTX 1070. Games are GPU dependent. Maybe there could be some thermal or stability issues in your system.

You made the right choice, Ryzen 5 1600 will outlast any Intel 4Core 4Thread CPU (i5 7600K, i3 8350K)

[HKZeroFive]

Just now, Emberstone said:

But it isn't. I can list several others.

 

Well, then I messed up and need to start over.

Can you list them then? Because you've failed to mention them in your OP.

[Emberstone]

5 minutes ago, HKZeroFive said:

Can you list them then? Because you've failed to mention them in your OP.

CS:GO, Heroes of the Storm (only 20-40% usage here), World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Desync, PUBG (optimization or no, my friend with an Intel system still gets higher usage on his 1070). Even in Diablo 3 I dip below 100 fps sometimes, which is really noticeable on a 144 Hz monitor.

 

6 minutes ago, FTL said:

Maybe there could be some thermal or stability issues in your system.

No. My temps are below 60 C on both the CPU and GPU and the overclock is stable in Prime95 for hours.

[Vroooom]

Ryzen is "good enough" for gaming just like an i7 2600, i5 7600, or i3 8100-- for 60fps it does fine. They're good all-around cpus for the money, but you're not supposed to use one in a gaming rig hooked up to a 144 hz monitor

[Guest]

Just now, Emberstone said:

CS:GO, Heroes of the Storm (only 20% usage here), World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Desync, PUBG (optimization or no, my friend with an Intel system still gets higher usage on his 1070).

 

No. My temps are below 60 C on both the CPU and GPU and the overclock is stable in Prime95 for hours.

Run a stresstest and tell us what clockspeed it runs on.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Emberstone said:

CS:GO, Heroes of the Storm (only 20-40% usage here), World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Desync, PUBG (optimization or no, my friend with an Intel system still gets higher usage on his 1070).

 

No. My temps are below 60 C on both the CPU and GPU and the overclock is stable in Prime95 for hours.

Dumb question time, you did put the GPU in the x16 3.0 slot, right?

[Emberstone]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

Dumb question time, you did put the GPU in the x16 3.0 slot, right?

Yes. Top slot.

[Emberstone]

2 minutes ago, FTL said:

Run a stresstest and tell us what clockspeed it runs on.

3991.5 MHz. Not a perfect 4.0 GHz due to the bus speed being 99.8 MHz.

[HKZeroFive]

2 minutes ago, Emberstone said:

CS:GO, Heroes of the Storm (only 20-40% usage here), World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Desync, PUBG (optimization or no, my friend with an Intel system still gets higher usage on his 1070).

It's a combination of playing several CPU-bound games that excel on single-threaded performance and aiming for 1080p 144Hz which is going to induce a CPU-bottleneck eventually with a Ryzen processor.

 

Honestly, it couldn't hurt to do some research in the first place.

[Master Disaster]

OK, please download the following 3 things

 

GPUz

MSI Afterburner

MSI Kombuster

 

Install AB & KB, run GPUz & AB then run KB and set it to Windowed Mode

 

Start the KB test, leave it for a few minutes then take a screenshot and post it please.

[Guest]

Just now, Emberstone said:

3991.5 MHz. Not a perfect 4.0 GHz due to the bus speed being 99.8 MHz.

Constant, or just for a short time? Test for 5-10mins. CPUs downclock themselfs after time based on power consumption, temperature and more.

[Bananasplit_00]

Ryzen has the IPC of about 4th gen Intel, and clocks worse then 4th gen Intel(4th to 7th gen is basically just DDR4 added and clock speed improvement, 8th gen is 7th gen with more cores). so anything that cant take advantage of those extra threads Intel already won with 4th gen five years ago or so lol. Anyway now that you are already invested in this platform i would just hold out for new Zen CPUs seeing as we will have Zen + relatively soon and Zen 2 after that and both will be supported by current motherboards from what we know right now. 

 

36 minutes ago, Od1sseas said:

Ryzen is shit espacially on gaming. Even an i3 8100 will perform better

What Ryzen gave us was value over Intels 7th I5s and I3s, similar, or the same performance for less money spent, and they were really good for content creators who can take advantage of the extra cores. at 1080p intel clearly wins the performance war, but step it up to 1440p or 4K and they even out.

15 minutes ago, Od1sseas said:

 After the release of Coffee Lake CPUs, Ryzen is FX again.

this statement is pretty stupid. FX is shit for two reasons:
1: the L2 Cashe is shared

2: they are power hungry as all hell

 

Ryzen has neither of those problems, nor does it perform like it. Intel has the single core, AMD however has the value in a lot of cases being cheaper and quite often matching the performance in games to 7th gen Intel(which is what the Intel option was when this system was built). Most games are designed around single core performance seeing as Intel has been the marker leader for ages, and i honestly dont expect that to change super fast but Ryzen being about as good as a 4th gen I5 in game performance isnt SHIT. It has its problems for sure but its not SHIT. Also how about you go look at what a dual core from sandy stacked up to against that FX chip  

4 minutes ago, Emberstone said:

CS:GO

this game just wants CPU for days, the GPU basically dosent matter as long as it exists(im pretty sure a GT610 would do just as well almost, source engine is stupid)... powerfull threads wins over thread count but it likes both as long as you let it use all threads in the boot options.

 

2 minutes ago, Od1sseas said:

"Sure, Ryzen is shit and Intel are the best company on planet earth"

That's true because Intel doesn't have true competition

we wouldent have had the 4 highest core count X299 SKUs without threadripper, CoffeeLake was pushed up 6 months. Im pretty sure they are takeing AMD seriously here seeing as AMD CLEARLY had the value over Intels I5s and I3s from 7th gen

 

[Emberstone]

6 minutes ago, FTL said:

Constant, or just for a short time? Test for 5-10mins. CPUs downclock themselfs after time based on power consumption, temperature and more.

Ryzen doesn't downclock when overclocked. It is constant.

 

7 minutes ago, HKZeroFive said:

Honestly, it couldn't hurt to do some research in the first place.

Well, then I'm a fucking moron. I went with Ryzen because if I bought a 7600K, I'd lose multithread performance from my 980X (I stream Devil Daggers occasionally), but couldn't afford a 7700K at the time. I was tired of dipping to 30 fps in Heroes of the Storm teamfights and wanted the upgrade, but Coffee Lake was supposedly nowhere close to release in May. So I took the plunge, and now that Destiny 2 is around and runs poorly compared to Intel, I regret it.

 

Guess I'm going to try to sell my mobo and processor, then.

[asand1]

47 minutes ago, Emberstone said:

.... I've got a 1600X at 4.0 GHz, and ..... GTX 1070 dropping to ~70% in many cases with max settings and 1080p.

I found your problem. Get a 1440P monitor and put more of the load on the GPU.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Emberstone said:

Ryzen doesn't downclock when overclocked. It is constant.

 

Well, then I'm a fucking moron. I went with Ryzen because if I bought a 7600K, I'd lose multithread performance from my 980X (I stream Devil Daggers occasionally), but couldn't afford a 7700K at the time. I was tired of dipping to 30 fps in Heroes of the Storm teamfights and wanted the upgrade, but Coffee Lake was supposedly nowhere close to release in May. So I took the plunge, and now that Destiny 2 is around, I regret it.

 

Guess I'm going to try to sell my mobo and processor, then.

My last suggestion would be updating the bios, early ryzen motherboards had bios problems.

[Emberstone]

1 minute ago, FTL said:

My last suggestion would be updating the bios, early ryzen motherboards had bios problems.

Already on the latest from like a week ago, and my ram is at 3066 MHz thanks to AGESA 1.0.0.6.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Emberstone said:

Already on the latest from like a week ago, and my ram is at 3066 MHz thanks to AGESA 1.0.0.6.

It seems like your system has stability issues, but i can't figure out what exactly

It also wouldn't hurt to contact AMD and hope they have a solution.

Ryzen 5 1600X should NOT bottleneck any AMD or Nvdia GPUs up to a GTX 1080 in normal circumstances.

[Emberstone]

Just now, FTL said:

It seems like your system has stability issues

Not likely. Games that are clearly more multithreaded run fine with 100% GPU usage. I'm just disappointed that, even though Ryzen's single-thread performance is around 60% better than my 980X's, I'm not getting anywhere near that kind of performance boost in any game besides Heroes of the Storm.

 

Destiny 2 was just the last nail in the coffin I guess

[JoostinOnline]

1 hour ago, Emberstone said:

Hey there, dumb question. So I've got a 1600X at 4.0 GHz, and I'm noticing that even with a newer game like Destiny 2 that seems to put a load on every thread, I'm still seeing GPU usage on my GTX 1070 dropping to ~70% in many cases with max settings and 1080p. The only games I have that can keep my 1070 at 100% usage throughout the entire playtime are No Man's Sky (lol), Overwatch, and Doom. Other games I have can't.

It's because you're playing at 1080p.  The 1070 is meant for 1440p or greater.  CPU usage would be the same from 480p to 4K, but GPU usage is entirely affected.  If you play a game at 1440p, you're more likely to get 100% usage out of the 1070.