New 8700k Build - Temperature Concerns

[Xtr]

Hello all, After anticipating my 4 year pc refresh has had several woes in my decision to try doing something unnecessarily different and difficult. My decision to go with the ever so beatiful Phanteks Evolv Shift X case I've ran headlong into many ITX issues.

 

My issue and concern today has to deal with the ever so hot 8700K build running incredibly hot. The 8700K with the Strix z370-i motherboard together seem to be quite the predicament as several videos as well as my own observations show that defaults (even with the latest 5015 BIOS) is still overclocking to the point where my *temporary* AIO Corsair H100i water temp is 90F(C)~ but the processor will run above 150F(60C)~ at idle and hit 212F(100C) quite often. I've heard this might be due to Vdip or something of that kind (bios update?) , I've attempted  to modify then voltages but don't quite understand or find good examples for my motherboard not provding much difference - still 1.331 - 1.397 where stock is 1.136V

 

I feel I'm a fairly competent techie guy with several builds under my belt , I have built ITX but not a performance ITX pc before - can anyone share their experiences on z370 or suggestions , woes?  Thanks!

 

Specs and images below:

CASE: Phanteks Evolv Shift-X

CPU: Intel 8700k

HDD: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB & Samsung 850 Pro 512GB

COOLING: EK-KIT P280 (Radiator to damn wide)  Corsair H110i (with transplanted Vardar fans) [hope to reimplement with hard line loop with WKWB SE radiator and Phanteks 1080ti block in future on same loop]

MB: Asus Strix z370-i (Mini-ITX)

MEMORY: GSkill Trident Z RGB - 32GB @ 3200mhz (F4-3200c14D-32GTZR)

VIDEO CARD: Asus 1080 Ti Strix OC Edition

PSU: Silverstone: SX800-LTI

Thermal Compound: Gelid GC-Extreme

 

 

Yeah ... Sorry bout the RGB...yeah...

 

 

Notes for those interested in a similar build with a Phanteks Strix

• Make sure your 24 pin cable is atleast 2 feet long (likely need extension) same for 8pin cpu (comes with extension though)
• Bracket which video card resides in is to small for Asus Strix OC version reversible bracket impacts - could dremel bracket but lose ability to flip around when I add GPU water block - opted for the videocard modification, was able to retain fans and rgb.
• The TOP hatch is awesome however my monoprice optical cable and displayport cables (braided) would not bend enough to close latch or do comfortably as pressure would be applied directly down onto graphics card - bought 90 degree optical connector along with 90 angled adapters for displayport (which broke gysync on my monitors - got new DP cables that I had to dremle as they were too thicc to fit next to each other

 

[SquintyG33Rs]

it's the TMI... it's been shit for the last 5 years on intel CPUs. the 4770k was so bad they had to refresh it with the 4790k. the only thing you have to do is delid the chip and put something else instead of the original tim. you'll drop at least 10C and you won't throttle anymore

[Clyne]

Temps seem reasonable if it's at 1.36V with LLC and OC'd to 4.7GHZ.

But it's most likely MCE is on that forces all cores to 4.7GHZ, turn that off and see if there's a difference. 

[Xtr]

1 minute ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

it's the TMI... it's been shit for the last 5 years on intel CPUs. the 4770k was so bad they had to refresh it with the 4790k. the only thing you have to do is delid the chip and put something else instead of the original tim. you'll drop at least 10C and you won't throttle anymore

Forgot to mention I have thankfullly had no crashing/bsod/freezing at this time (other than downclocking to 1800mhz cpu)

 

Yeah I forgot to add if I should truely consider delidding with debauers kit , my previous pc was a 4770k. Any suggestions as to what TIM? I attempted Liquid Silver once for heatsink and was like NOPE as it bubbled and danced around the processer heatsink - appreciate the reply

[Xtr]

1 minute ago, Bubblewhale said:

Temps seem reasonable if it's at 1.36V with LLC and OC'd to 4.7GHZ.

But it's most likely MCE is on that forces all cores to 4.7GHZ, turn that off and see if there's a difference. 

Thanks for reply, I tried disabling Multicore enhancment as well and did not see a noticable difference , atleast looking at it with CPUid's hwmonitor it seemed the CPUs stayed synced and voltages were the same.

[Clyne]

1 minute ago, Xtr said:

Forgot to mention I have thankfullly had no crashing/bsod/freezing at this time (other than downclocking to 1800mhz cpu)

 

Yeah I forgot to add if I should truely consider delidding with debauers kit , my previous pc was a 4770k. Any suggestions as to what TIM? I attempted Liquid Silver once for heatsink and was like NOPE as it bubbled and danced around the processer heatsink - appreciate the reply

The TIM has been the same with 4790K, it's just the spacing/heat issues. It was a big issue with 7700K were it just ran too hot, but it has the same TIM as the 4790K/6700K.

[SquintyG33Rs]

you'll never get crashes at stock speeds. the CPU just isn't unstable it's just too hot because the heat isn't transferred out. heat doesn't make it unstable. i'm not a specialist in thermal pastes.... so i'd just go with what  de8auer suggests......

 

(edit) numbers typo lol

[Clyne]

2 minutes ago, Xtr said:

Thanks for reply, I tried disabling Multicore enhancment as well and did not see a noticable difference , atleast looking at it with CPUid's hwmonitor it seemed the CPUs stayed synced and voltages were the same.

Try running XMP off, using 2133 or use 3200 with own timings and voltage. 

[Xtr]

Just now, SquintyG33Rs said:

you'll never get crashes at stock speeds. the CPU just isn't unstable it's just too hot because the heat isn't transferred out. heat doesn't make it unstable. i'm not a specialist in thermal pastes.... so i'd just go with what  de9auer suggests......

Gothca -  As I had noticed it would hit 90C to 100C I suppose I was worried it might fry or power off to prevent thermal overheating

[SquintyG33Rs]

2 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

The TIM has been the same with 4790K, it's just the spacing/heat issues. It was a big issue with 7700K were it just ran too hot, but it has the same TIM as the 4790K/6700K.

i'm not sure what you mean with spacing/heat? if they had a manufacturing defect that made the heat spreader too far from the die so the transfer was inefficient that's a blatant oversight.... and if even if the TIM is the same the 6700k didn't OC for shit while the better manufacturing process used on the 7700k and now the 8700k make them highly overclock-able and thus the TIM becomes an issue very fast. and i don't think that the TIM isn't an issue because even at stock people had throttling because of heat on the 7700k in some cases.

[Clyne]

4 minutes ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

i'm not sure what you mean with spacing/heat? if they had a manufacturing defect that made the heat spreader too far from the die so the transfer was inefficient that's a blatant oversight.... and if even if the TIM is the same the 6700k didn't OC for shit while the better manufacturing process used on the 7700k and now the 8700k make them highly overclock-able and thus the TIM becomes an issue very fast. and i don't think that the TIM isn't an issue because even at stock people had throttling because of heat on the 7700k in some cases.

It's the space between the the IHS and the Die issue as well...

This is with a 3770K

[SquintyG33Rs]

6 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

It's the space between the the IHS and the Die issue as well...

This is with a 3770K

so your point is it's not the paste itself, they just happened to be retarded and put a layer of glue too thick and shot themselves in the leg in the process and then limped away?

 

what i mean is what i said before. this is a blatant engineering oversight. someone should have gotten fired

 

(edit) also i kinda have to point out things have changed since the 3770k, it's been established that lapping doesn't do much if even anything and almost nobody does it anymore.

[Clyne]

Just now, SquintyG33Rs said:

so your point is it's not the paste itself, they just happened to be retarded and put a layer of glue too thick and shot themselves in the leg in the process and then limped away?

So what are you trying to say? It's known that Kaby Lake runs hotter than Skylake in general, and they both got the same TIM/Spacing. If you want to be serious about Kaby Lake with high voltages then delid. 

[SquintyG33Rs]

2 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

So what are you trying to say? It's known that Kaby Lake runs hotter than Skylake in general, and they both got the same TIM/Spacing. If you want to be serious about Kaby Lake with high voltages then delid. 

i don't know why you screenshot that? i said what i thought was right you've proven me wrong, ok i accept that, i'm not going to hide what i said before to bury the shame lol. the fact of the matter is still that there IS an issue that shouldn't be there.

 

(edit) also cool profile pic

[Xtr]

Thank you for all the information , looks as if the der8auer kits are currently unavailable. As I've invested this much so far this probably would be the next best course of action to get better temperatures where no amount of cooling can help from above the heatsink.

[Clyne]

Just now, SquintyG33Rs said:

i don't know why you screenshot that? i said what i thought was right you've proven me wrong, ok i accept that, i'm not going to hide what i said before to bury the shame lol. the fact of the matter is still that there IS an issue that shouldn't be there.

Intel says don't overclock and reviewers are "implying" to delid for overclocking. 

[Clyne]

5 minutes ago, Xtr said:

Thank you for all the information , looks as if the der8auer kits are currently unavailable. As I've iinvested this much so far this probably would be the next best course of action to get better temperatures where no amount of cooling can help from above the heatsink.

You can ask a friend for a 3dprinter, there are 3D Models of delid tools online. If not just hire a 3D Print service. I would check thermal paste/cooler before going anywhere else, reaching 100C around stock with that high voltage seems abnormal. It shouldn't get to 1.36V+ if it's just stock, something is going wrong that's causing 4.7GHZ on all cores. It's most likely the XMP setting that "causes" all of the cores to 4.7GHZ turbo rather than one. 

[SquintyG33Rs]

6 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

Intel says don't overclock and reviewers are "implying" to delid for overclocking. 

meanwhile you're on your 3rd 1151 board? what happened to the first 2? no but seriously though, do you really think that's normal? you sell a CPU unlocked especially for overclocking, market it for gamers and people who want the best performance that will last, and then tell them not to do it.... and that's legit? there is no way in hell that they can't have their machines put the CPUs together withing tighter tolerances or use something else than a silicon seal so close them up...

 

(edit) from an engineering standpoint 0.06mm is a HUGE margin and can only be intentional in 2017 we build things with less than 1 thau of variance and this is almost 3 times that

[Clyne]

Just now, SquintyG33Rs said:

meanwhile you're on your 3rd 1151 board? what happened to the first 2? no but seriously though, do you really think that's normal? you sell a CPU unlocked especially for overclocking, market it for gamers and people who want the best performance that will last, and then tell them not to do it.... and that's legit? there is no way in hell that they can't have their machines put the CPUs together withing tighter tolerances or use something else than a silicon seal so close them up...

Bent pins(Z170 Extreme7+), BIOS bricked(Z270 Gaming 5), Z170 Deluxe going fine and my 3rd board. It's just Intel, they just want to bring the best processor over the current market, not the best performing processor they can make. Some people might just buy a K CPU and run at stock, but Intel's offical response for the 7700K overheating was "don't overclock".

 

https://communities.intel.com/message/471425#471425

[SquintyG33Rs]

1 minute ago, Bubblewhale said:

Bent pins(Z170 Extreme7+), BIOS bricked(Z270 Gaming 5), Z170 Deluxe going fine and my 3rd board. It's just Intel, they just want to bring the best processor over the current market, not the best performing processor they can make. Some people might just buy a K CPU and run at stock, but Intel's offical response for the 7700K overheating was "don't overclock".

 

https://communities.intel.com/message/471425#471425

yeah i remember, i saw that, that's what i'm talking about. and sorry for constantly editing my comments because i forget to put in stuff

[Xtr]

I will try the prior mentioned changes and report back in the future, its surprising that the Asus Strix board would have auto overclocking along with MCE on be default, this has been tried in Ezmode and Advanced (optimized) where I could see this being a big problem for someone with a basic air cooler.

[SquintyG33Rs]

5 minutes ago, Xtr said:

I will try the prior mentioned changes and report back in the future, its surprising that the Asus Strix board would have auto overclocking along with MCE on be default, this has been tried in Ezmode and Advanced (optimized) where I could see this being a big problem for someone with a basic air cooler.

it's been commonly coming up with reviewers. jays2cents made multiple videos as did gamersnexus

[Xtr]

Little update on temperature TLDR version first: Corsair H100i heatsink is wider up down than left right (6.0 x 5.5mm) it impacted the capicators and prevented the contact of the heatsink. Temperature levels are fine at 4.4 GHz all cores - XMP 3200Mhz , MCE - off , Auto Core.

 

Now for the long version: When I first saw this I was absolutely embarrassed and thought that I didn't tighten the bracing screws between the backplate to the thumbscrews but it turned out to be a little more than what originally thought when i spent the time to clean and reapply and have the same result (but actually check it time)

 

After taking the obviously overlooked suggestion (thank you btw) "the theres no way it could be this", cleaned and tried again tightening more, same result.

 

Discovery of issue, something looks off

Still impacts with heatsink adjusted to lowest point

 

take note of original orientation of the CORSAIR heatsink:

 

Dimensions checked: (and realization sets in)

Involved research, stupid simple solution:

Rotated heatsink 90 degrees (very tight to memory sticks)

Done:

 

Results of proper mounting: @ safe 4.4GHz ~

 

 

----------------------------------------------

Now with that out of the way and feeling dumb but good , I then realized another future problem with my ekwb 280mm Performance: Its to big captain 

 

The heatsink for my $370.00 liquid cooling kit is too big to mount without impacting the capacitors ; as well as the radiator being too big in the front to also then mount the pump + res in the center.

 

I hope this information proves helpful to anyone considering a build , hopefully pre build as this has turned out to be costly and will likely need to find a buyer for a never used EKWB 280mm Performance kit.... damn....

 

 

Thanks again!

[kurt kurtson]

Don't throw away your EKWB-Kit, it will fit with a little hassle

i do not know about the radiator, but it works with a alphacool 280mm slim version (not the X-Flow!)

check my build

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/XWr6Mp

difference: Motherboard-Monoblock

[Xtr]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:04 AM, kurt kurtson said:

Don't throw away your EKWB-Kit, it will fit with a little hassle

i do not know about the radiator, but it works with a alphacool 280mm slim version (not the X-Flow!)

check my build

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/XWr6Mp

difference: Motherboard-Monoblock

Appreciate the info ,Will i need to get the strix monoblock instead of using the evo cpu block?  I actually have a alphacool slim 280 sitting in an unopend box (life hit hard recently) - glad  I made the right choice. I am also picking up a Barrow TCBJ-P14 mount as I kind of destroyed my bracket that came with my kit