Microsoft cuts off Windows 10 support early for some PCs

[ffpoke]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-blocks-windows-10-creators-update-on-some-pcs/

 

[Sir Asvald]

Sigh... You need quotes from the source...

 

 

 

[ARikozuM]

Hmmm? Does it fit the Tech News format?

 

No quotes.

No personal opinion.

 

Conclusion: Nope.

[Princess Luna]

The article is actually quite interesting but in reality it hardly matters, besides the title is a clickbait at its finest.

[Drak3]

Guess the supported lifetime of Clover Trail devices is over. Bummer for those few that bought them, but not really something to get up in arms over.

[PlayStation 2]

So much for support. And yet somehow my fucking FX-4100 managed to get the Creators Update.

[Drak3]

Just now, Dan Castellaneta said:

So much for support. And yet somehow my fucking FX-4100 managed to get the Creators Update.

Microsoft did say that devices would get updates for their support lifetime. Atom's support lifetime is essentially over, Intel discontinued them and OEMs are dropping Clover Trail from their support. It's not like there are DIY solutions with Atom, asides for a few embedded Intel boards that are oft designed for usages like NAS and Plex servers.

[mr moose]

Big difference between unsupported and incompatible updates.  Wait until MS declares it unsupported or releases a patch before making such bold and slanderish claims.

 

 

[manikyath]

15 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

The article is actually quite interesting but in reality it hardly matters, besides the title is a clickbait at its finest.

the biggest issue lies within using the term "pc's"

 

it'd have been much better if they used "devices" instead, since this applies to a rather specific group of all-in-one systems.

[samcool55]

So, they don't want that W7 becomes the new XP.

THIS (partially) CAUSES THE ISSUE...

 

Seriously, let's say you have one of these devices, W10 support officially ends somewhere late 2018.

W7 support ends in 2020...

 

Sooo yea... M$, eat shit and die.

If someone says they don't want W10 because support could end at any moment, i don't blame them. I honestly don't understand where microshit is heading to.

Imo, still clearly the wrong direction.

 

M$, take a shovel and join Ubisoft and EA, that's where you belong.

[manikyath]

Just now, samcool55 said:

So, they don't want that W7 becomes the new XP.

THIS (partially) CAUSES THE ISSUE...

 

Seriously, let's say you have one of these devices, W10 support officially ends somewhere late 2018.

W7 support ends in 2020...

 

Sooo yea... M$, eat shit and die.

If someone says they don't want W10 because support could end at any moment, i don't blame them. I honestly don't understand where microshit is heading to.

Imo, still clearly the wrong direction.

 

M$, take a shovel and join Ubisoft and EA, that's where you belong.

this is so far off from the issue at hand here...

[samcool55]

Just now, manikyath said:

this is so far off from the issue at hand here...

Then explain because what i posted is what i concluded based on the article.

If that's incorrect at least argue why >_>

[2FA]

4 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

So, they don't want that W7 becomes the new XP.

THIS (partially) CAUSES THE ISSUE...

 

Seriously, let's say you have one of these devices, W10 support officially ends somewhere late 2018.

W7 support ends in 2020...

 

Sooo yea... M$, eat shit and die.

If someone says they don't want W10 because support could end at any moment, i don't blame them. I honestly don't understand where microshit is heading to.

Imo, still clearly the wrong direction.

 

M$, take a shovel and join Ubisoft and EA, that's where you belong.

What are you on about? Each build gets 2 years of support, just like Ubuntu LTS. Update to the latest build and you have support.

[TheRandomness]

-Thread moved to Windows, @ffpoke Please follow the TN&R guidelines, edit the post, and a moderator will more it back.

42 minutes ago, Abdul201588 said:

Sigh... You need quotes from the source...

 

Guidelines found there ^

[manikyath]

Just now, samcool55 said:

Then explain because what i posted is what i concluded based on the article.

If that's incorrect at least argue why >_>

these are the early win8 tablet/convertible devices (that were honestly shit to start with, but thats again beside the point) which never even meant to work with win7, and most likely dont even work properly with 7 at all.

 

the "no longer supported" thing is taken quite a bit out of place, because this is more likely to be a lack of testing than planned obsolesence by MS, it also is not related to LTS support for windows 10 or windows 7, but to device specific support, which also seems to be pointed towards in before mentioned article. if anything, we should blame this on bad legacy hardware support on win10

 

if this was truly a purposeful planned obsolesence, please explain to me how i am still able to install windows 10 flawlessly on a range of core2duo and core2quad systems.

[samcool55]

Just now, DeadEyePsycho said:

What are you on about? Each build gets 2 years of support, just like Ubuntu LTS. Update to the latest build and you have support.

It's in the article...

Quote

If Microsoft sticks to its announced support deadlines, any device running Windows 10 version 1607 will stop receiving updates in early 2018. In some cases, this cutoff date will be only three years after those devices were placed in service.

Which means that W10 support for those devices end before W7 support (2020).

This is probably an exception, but if this is how microsoft is planning to handle support they can f*ck off.

 

Just imagine companies upgrading to W10 in the near future (big investment) and a few months after that they get told support drops for a part of their IT infrastructure and only have 6-12 months to replace them. That's a short time! And possibly a big money loss just because microsoft didn't want to support it anymore...

 

Yeah they say they are working on a solution, but honestly as long as there isn't one i just expect them to not give one at all or a very broken one.

[PlayStation 2]

30 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Microsoft did say that devices would get updates for their support lifetime. Atom's support lifetime is essentially over, Intel discontinued them and OEMs are dropping Clover Trail from their support. It's not like there are DIY solutions with Atom, asides for a few embedded Intel boards that are oft designed for usages like NAS and Plex servers.

Eh, fair enough. 

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, samcool55 said:

Just imagine companies upgrading to W10 in the near future (big investment) and a few months after that they get told support drops for a part of their IT infrastructure and only have 6-12 months to replace them. That's a short time! And possibly a big money loss just because microsoft didn't want to support it anymore...

*stares at an entire company running off core2quads with windows 10*

 

yeah.. i dont see an issue still..

 

a company running off of frikking clover trail however..

[Drak3]

@samcool55 This is an issue of Microsoft not pushing/allowing unsupported devices access to the latest build, which is something they outlined from the start, and something their competitors have been doing for some time. The only devices in question are OEM built systems, running a discontinued and unsupported processor line on systems that OEMs no longer support in any capacity. It's exactly what Microsoft said would happen prior to Win10's release, and maintained that stance ever since.

 

Any custom system still gets the latest build. Any supported OEM system gets the latest build.

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

*stares at an entire company running off core2quads with windows 10*

 

yeah.. i dont see an issue still..

 

a company running off of frikking clover trail however..

What? You can't see the crap tastic push to move us all onto Kaby and Ryzen? Microsoft's genius strategy to sell processors on AMD and Intel's behalf, despite benefiting NOTHING from it? How Microsoft is waiting for the 13 planets to align so that they can start pushing OSX and Ubuntu on Surface? The giant tree conspiracy? That Jerry did 911?

 

/s

[samcool55]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

*stares at an entire company running off core2quads with windows 10*

 

yeah.. i dont see an issue still..

 

a company running off of frikking clover trail however..

Let's take your C2Q company as an example to explain what i mean.

Upgrading all of them to W10 is a big investment. It takes time and money to do that.

 

Let's say a company does this in 2019. Company does big investment, migration to new OS and likely partially newer infrastructure gets done. All good.

Let's assume this all took 12 months which is for a mid-size company quite reasonable. (i mean 12 months for everything, not only the migration itself).

 

18 months later (that's half 2021) microsoft says "no more support! f-you!" Just like they do now.

Suddenly you only have 6-12 months left to do it all over again (probably more because new systems are required).

And as i said before, that's not a long time and it's a huge cost for a company, i won't be surprised if companies just ditch W10 at that point and search for something else.

 

W10 as we know already is compared to W7 and W8.1 very expensive maintenance wise, there's a reason why big companies don't upgrade. The biggest issue is that it will never reach the maturity W7 and W8.1 have right now because they keep rolling out new builds...

 

Yea i don't like W10 at all, i really hate it and i hate what M$ is doing with it.

[2FA]

9 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Let's take your C2Q company as an example to explain what i mean.

Upgrading all of them to W10 is a big investment. It takes time and money to do that.

 

Let's say a company does this in 2019. Company does big investment, migration to new OS and likely partially newer infrastructure gets done. All good.

Let's assume this all took 12 months which is for a mid-size company quite reasonable. (i mean 12 months for everything, not only the migration itself).

 

18 months later (that's half 2021) microsoft says "no more support! f-you!" Just like they do now.

Suddenly you only have 6-12 months left to do it all over again (probably more because new systems are required).

And as i said before, that's not a long time and it's a huge cost for a company, i won't be surprised if companies just ditch W10 at that point and search for something else.

 

W10 as we know already is compared to W7 and W8.1 very expensive maintenance wise, there's a reason why big companies don't upgrade. The biggest issue is that it will never reach the maturity W7 and W8.1 have right now because they keep rolling out new builds...

 

Yea i don't like W10 at all, i really hate it and i hate what M$ is doing with it.

What size company are we talking about? With SCCM, I can deploy W10 to almost 1000 devices in a single week by myself. The only part that may take a while is validation but that should definitely not take a full year. 

[manikyath]

9 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Let's take your C2Q company as an example to explain what i mean.

Upgrading all of them to W10 is a big investment. It takes time and money to do that.

 

Let's say a company does this in 2019. Company does big investment, migration to new OS and likely partially newer infrastructure gets done. All good.

Let's assume this all took 12 months which is for a mid-size company quite reasonable. (i mean 12 months for everything, not only the migration itself).

 

18 months later (that's half 2021) microsoft says "no more support! f-you!" Just like they do now.

Suddenly you only have 6-12 months left to do it all over again (probably more because new systems are required).

And as i said before, that's not a long time and it's a huge cost for a company, i won't be surprised if companies just ditch W10 at that point and search for something else.

 

W10 as we know already is compared to W7 and W8.1 very expensive maintenance wise, there's a reason why big companies don't upgrade. The biggest issue is that it will never reach the maturity W7 and W8.1 have right now because they keep rolling out new builds...

 

Yea i don't like W10 at all, i really hate it and i hate what M$ is doing with it.

my point is that if a half rotten core2quad computer is still fully supported with no end in sight, what chance would there be that MS is purposely tossing freaking clover trail out their supported stack, if there's much older infrastructure, with much more money behind it still going just fine?

 

all MS has to win with ditching these devices is that the internet's now pissed off and the 10 people who hadnt repurposed them to a paperweight yet are gonna go out to buy some acer piece of junk.

 

the only reason your arguments make sense to you, is because you have barricaded yourself in salt. for companies like what i work for the driver support and backwards compatibility in windows 10 is a miracle from the heavens. we can just toss windows 10 on any device any client may have and expect it to work as intended, with the "very expensive maintenance wise" windows 7 usually ending up with an afternoon of finding drivers, trucking them over on a usb stick to even get frikking ethernet to work.

 

the only reason companies havent migrated to 10 yet is because of grumpy sysadmins and lazy software partners.

[manikyath]

5 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

What size company are we talking about? With SCCM, I can deploy W10 to almost 1000 devices in a single week by myself. The only part that may take a while is validation but that should definitely not take a full year. 

manually installed 6 machines by hand in an afternoon, which all had to be done to a tight qualification process (which is why its not "deployed"), just the peace of mind of not having to deal with ethernet drivers is such a timesaver

 

as for companies migrating to new OSes, i've found it goes mostly along with their upgrade cycles, which believe it or not would usually nicely fall into place with the projected lifespan clover trail has had. (low end devices dont get repurposed often, mostly because they tend to be beat up by the time they get there.)

 

also, this mess is a perfect example of why similar devices that may be used in corporate environments, like lets say a surface, come with core i instead of atom

[2FA]

8 minutes ago, manikyath said:

my point is that if a half rotten core2quad computer is still fully supported with no end in sight, what chance would there be that MS is purposely tossing freaking clover trail out their supported stack, if there's much older infrastructure, with much more money behind it still going just fine?

 

all MS has to win with ditching these devices is that the internet's now pissed off and the 10 people who hadnt repurposed them to a paperweight yet are gonna go out to buy some acer piece of junk.

 

the only reason your arguments make sense to you, is because you have barricaded yourself in salt. for companies like what i work for the driver support and backwards compatibility in windows 10 is a miracle from the heavens. we can just toss windows 10 on any device any client may have and expect it to work as intended, with the "very expensive maintenance wise" windows 7 usually ending up with an afternoon of finding drivers, trucking them over on a usb stick to even get frikking ethernet to work.

 

the only reason companies havent migrated to 10 yet is because of grumpy sysadmins and lazy software partners.

I'm going to have to agree on the driver support, it's really good. The only issue we had was with Skylake based Lenovo desktops not PXE booting correctly. We managed to at least get them to install an image but you couldn't capture images from them. Lenovo finally put out an UEFI update which fixed the PXE issue but also bricked like 3 of the machines.

[manikyath]

Just now, DeadEyePsycho said:

I'm going to have to agree on the driver support, it's really good. The only issue we had was with Skylake based Lenovo desktops not PXE booting correctly. We managed to at least get them to install an image but you couldn't capture images from them. Lenovo finally put out an UEFI update which fixed the PXE issue but also bricked like 3 of the machines.

sounds like the reason why we use HP

 

we regularly do bios/uefi updates trough remote desktop sessions, and as pugetsystems said it so good: "we dont keep track of bios updates bricking systems because it doesnt happen"