Ryzen has another instruction implementation problem, VME is broken

[LAwLz]

How to get a massive amount of upvotes on LinusTechTips:

1) Insult zMeul.

2) Whenever someone points out an issue with an AMD product, change the topic to be about how bad Intel and/or Nvidia are.

 

 

On topic:
It's a good thing there is a workaround for VMs. Sure it might not be a good idea to run it as the host OS anymore, but running it in a VM is extremely useful.

[Space Reptile]

On ‎13‎.‎05‎.‎2017 at 7:10 PM, zMeul said:

if the end user tries to run XP / WS2003 and earlier OSes, the system will either crash or hang - this affects both direct installs or through a VM

oh no i cant run XP on my ryzen System wich has exactly 0 Drivers for Windows XP , GEE

i lost everything now ,

BAD RYZEN
BAAAAD!

[Trixanity]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

How to get a massive amount of upvotes on LinusTechTips:

1) Insult zMeul.

2) Whenever someone points out an issue with an AMD product, change the topic to be about how bad Intel and/or Nvidia are.

 

 

On topic:
It's a good thing there is a workaround for VMs. Sure it might not be a good idea to run it as the host OS anymore, but running it in a VM is extremely useful.

Your post is somewhat warranted but he does kinda invite ridicule in the same way you ridicule certain members who are a fan of a certain company and a certain failed mobile operating system.

 

I would hope he has a bot scouring the internet for these things although even that is excessive. I mean considering the amount of topics he creates about one company that he thoroughly dislikes to put it mildly. I'm not saying the news shouldn't be reported but isn't it a bit conspicuous coming from the same person? It's almost like there is an agenda. 

 

You could argue that it triggers a lot of whataboutism but you could also argue that it merely provides perspective as it's reported as being unique to one company when in fact it's happened with other companies and even companies with ten times the resources, so that must mean shit happens. Where do we go from there? Find out if it can be fixed and if not inform people that if this interrupts your workflow then seek other solutions.

 

Objectivity is key here which is a tough thing to pull off but should be strived for anyway. Moderate the language and angle to be as unbiased as possible. We should all do that.

[Pample]

6 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Your post is somewhat warranted but he does kinda invite ridicule in the same way you ridicule certain members who are a fan of a certain company and a certain failed mobile operating system.

 

I would hope he has a bot scouring the internet for these things although even that is excessive. I mean considering the amount of topics he creates about one company that he thoroughly dislikes to put it mildly. I'm not saying the news shouldn't be reported but isn't it a bit conspicuous coming from the same person? It's almost like there is an agenda. 

 

You could argue that it triggers a lot of whataboutism but you could also argue that it merely provides perspective as it's reported as being unique to one company when in fact it's happened with other companies and even companies with ten times the resources, so that must mean shit happens. Where do we go from there? Find out if it can be fixed and if not inform people that if this interrupts your workflow then seek other solutions.

 

Objectivity is key here which is a tough thing to pull off but should be strived for anyway. Moderate the language and angle to be as unbiased as possible. We should all do that.

Could not have put it better myself. 

 

The joy of any post like this is to be able to argue both ways and the conversation that in turn creates. 

[bcguru9384]

real mode translated to human means same as live video audio streams that must run synced

what if the real mode os had to be treated like ntsc or qam or psk signals are treated

[LAwLz]

55 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Your post is somewhat warranted but he does kinda invite ridicule in the same way you ridicule certain members who are a fan of a certain company and a certain failed mobile operating system.

The difference is that I stay on topic and don't just post "lol he said something good/bad about company X!" and then leave it at that. I try to address why I consider them wrong and contribute to the conversation.

 

55 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I would hope he has a bot scouring the internet for these things although even that is excessive. I mean considering the amount of topics he creates about one company that he thoroughly dislikes to put it mildly. I'm not saying the news shouldn't be reported but isn't it a bit conspicuous coming from the same person? It's almost like there is an agenda. 

He also makes a lot of topics about other companies. Have you ever considered that while he might have some anti-AMD tendencies, you (and/or other people here) may be suffering from sampling bias or selective memory?

 

Some zMeul stats (this is what being objective is all about):

Topics created in the 2 month - 31 topics

Topics about AMD - 8

Topics which may be considered negative towards AMD - 3

Topics which may be considered POSITIVE towards AMD - 1

 

So about 25% topics created by zMeul in the last 2 months were about AMD, and 10% were negative. The rest were either positive or neutral (like "recent W10 patch shows improvements for Ryzen" and "Microsoft blocks updates for Ryzen and Kaby Lake on Windows 7")

 

90% of his topics were not shitty on AMD, and yet a large group of people on this forum brings up the remaining 10% whenever they get the chance. And you say he is the one that is being a fanboy/biased? Come on...

 

55 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

You could argue that it triggers a lot of whataboutism but you could also argue that it merely provides perspective as it's reported as being unique to one company when in fact it's happened with other companies and even companies with ten times the resources, so that must mean shit happens. Where do we go from there? Find out if it can be fixed and if not inform people that if this interrupts your workflow then seek other solutions.

Who cares what company it happens to? Saying "shit happens to Intel too" does not mean anything.

If you want to be objective then you should not care about if it happens to Intel, or AMD or some other company. The fact of the matter is that this product, which happens to be from AMD, has an issue with this particular feature. That's it, and that's being objective.

 

Yes, it does trigger a lot of whataboutism, and it only does it because a bunch of fanboys feel the need to justify and defend their beloved company.

Who cares if Intel has some completely unrelated issues? That's not what the topic is about, and therefore it does not provide "perspective". It's just a poor excuse to make AMD seem less bad than they are.

 

 

55 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Objectivity is key here which is a tough thing to pull off but should be strived for anyway. Moderate the language and angle to be as unbiased as possible. We should all do that.

If you thinking bringing up Intel's P67 SATA issues is being objective, then you are sadly mistaken.

Being objective here would be to say "wow that might suck for some people" and then not bring up completely unrelated Intel issue at all. Like you said, the people defending AMD/attacking Intel in this thread are literally using the same propaganda techniques as the Soviet Union used. Using logical fallacies is not being objective at all.

Being unbiased is not about bringing up issues on both camps. Being unbiased is not caring which brands did X and Y, but rather looking at the issue on a case by case basis without thinking "since this topic is about company X, I need to respond in this particular way such as by bringing up issues with company Y".

 

It's a worrying trend I am seeing here that people think being unbiased means that you have to give an equal amount of pros and cons to any particular product. That's not what being objective means. Objective is that you just look at the facts. It's not unbiased to say "I have mentioned two benefits of product X so now I have to think about two reasons why someone should pick product Y instead".

[Paragon_X]

>Ground Up new architecture
>First Product based on said architecture has some bugs
>Shocking

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

The difference is that I stay on topic and don't just post "lol he said something good/bad about company X!" and then leave it at that. I try to address why I consider them wrong and contribute to the conversation.

 

He also makes a lot of topics about other companies. Have you ever considered that while he might have some anti-AMD tendencies, you (and/or other people here) may be suffering from sampling bias or selective memory?

 

Some zMeul stats (this is what being objective is all about):

Topics created in the 2 month - 31 topics

Topics about AMD - 8

Topics which may be considered negative towards AMD - 3

Topics which may be considered POSITIVE towards AMD - 1

 

So about 25% topics created by zMeul in the last 2 months were about AMD, and 10% were negative. The rest were either positive or neutral (like "recent W10 patch shows improvements for Ryzen" and "Microsoft blocks updates for Ryzen and Kaby Lake on Windows 7")

 

90% of his topics were not shitty on AMD, and yet a large group of people on this forum brings up the remaining 10% whenever they get the chance. And you say he is the one that is being a fanboy/biased? Come on...

 

Who cares what company it happens to? Saying "shit happens to Intel too" does not mean anything.

If you want to be objective then you should not care about if it happens to Intel, or AMD or some other company. The fact of the matter is that this product, which happens to be from AMD, has an issue with this particular feature. That's it, and that's being objective.

 

Yes, it does trigger a lot of whataboutism, and it only does it because a bunch of fanboys feel the need to justify and defend their beloved company.

Who cares if Intel has some completely unrelated issues? That's not what the topic is about, and therefore it does not provide "perspective". It's just a poor excuse to make AMD seem less bad than they are.

 

 

If you thinking bringing up Intel's P67 SATA issues is being objective, then you are sadly mistaken.

Being objective here would be to say "wow that might suck for some people" and then not bring up completely unrelated Intel issue at all. Like you said, the people defending AMD/attacking Intel in this thread are literally using the same propaganda techniques as the Soviet Union used. Using logical fallacies is not being objective at all.

Being unbiased is not about bringing up issues on both camps. Being unbiased is not caring which brands did X and Y, but rather looking at the issue on a case by case basis without thinking "since this topic is about company X, I need to respond in this particular way such as by bringing up issues with company Y".

 

It's a worrying trend I am seeing here that people think being unbiased means that you have to give an equal amount of pros and cons to any particular product. That's not what being objective means. Objective is that you just look at the facts. It's not unbiased to say "I have mentioned two benefits of product X so now I have to think about two reasons why someone should pick product Y instead".

25% in two months is a lot. No one has said it's all he does but his interests gravitate towards a single company.

 

The fact that you're more meticulous in your conduct doesn't exclude the fact that you do much the same - to a degree.

 

Errata is a common occurrence in modern computing. Some we hear about, some we don't. We shouldn't pretend otherwise.

 

He does have an angle. Let's not pretend otherwise. He has said so himself; if not explicitly then implicitly. Yes, he does post positive things. In a way he kinda has to or it'd look suspicious. However I've noticed he usually tries to add some negative points to bring it back down whenever possible. Does it matter? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

 

I think you're dismissing the issue callously. There's plenty of others posting news of varying topics that don't have a spin to it, so why can't the OP? It's like reading Breitbart or Huffington Post (depending on which side you're on).

 

But honestly I'm not gonna spend more time arguing the point. I can tell that it's a futile endeavor.

[KuJoe]

I'm not seeing a problem here...

[Urishima]

On 13.5.2017 at 7:20 PM, DildorTheDecent said:

>RyZen

>running XP

 

Who would even. They're getting drowned in the bathtub. 

That's right. I am doing the drowning right now.

 

It's the great culling of 2017.

[Jito463]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

*SNIP*

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote, and I admit that my first post here may have been more negative than was called for (though not without at least some merit), but I think most of the Intel/AMD comparisons were actually brought on by @Darth Revan's comment that AMD released a beta product.  This, of course, naturally led to many others pointing out that a bug in the product does not equate to the product being "beta", which was done by pointing out the bugs in previous Intel generations.

 

It's all about context.

[MrDynamicMan]

Any company/org still running such old OS would not be upgrading to brand new pcs without upgrading OS infrastructure. The only place I can see this being an issue is if the tech dep got new PCs and emulates older OS's for testing. Which is a reallly, realllllllly, reałllllllllllllly (lol) neich case anyways. Sure, AMD might lose the business from those <100 companies, but its not worth the RnD for them to fix it.

[Sauron]

On 5/13/2017 at 7:18 PM, DocSwag said:

Does this really matter though? Microsoft doesn't support older OSes on Ryzen anyways.

virtual machines.

[DocSwag]

Just now, Sauron said:

virtual machines.

@zMeul already informed me of dat  

[DildorTheDecent]

2 hours ago, Urishima said:

That's right. I am doing the drowning right now.

 

It's the great culling of 2017.

Gods work. 

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, Trixanity said:

25% in two months is a lot. No one has said it's all he does but his interests gravitate towards a single company.

 

The fact that you're more meticulous in your conduct doesn't exclude the fact that you do much the same - to a degree.

 

Errata is a common occurrence in modern computing. Some we hear about, some we don't. We shouldn't pretend otherwise.

 

He does have an angle. Let's not pretend otherwise. He has said so himself; if not explicitly then implicitly. Yes, he does post positive things. In a way he kinda has to or it'd look suspicious. However I've noticed he usually tries to add some negative points to bring it back down whenever possible. Does it matter? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

 

I think you're dismissing the issue callously. There's plenty of others posting news of varying topics that don't have a spin to it, so why can't the OP? It's like reading Breitbart or Huffington Post (depending on which side you're on).

 

But honestly I'm not gonna spend more time arguing the point. I can tell that it's a futile endeavor.

It really isn't: Check percentages for Goodbytes and Microsoft and of his non-Microsoft topics also round up how many are about Nintendo.

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, Trixanity said:

25% in two months is a lot. No one has said it's all he does but his interests gravitate towards a single company.

 

The fact that you're more meticulous in your conduct doesn't exclude the fact that you do much the same - to a degree.

 

Errata is a common occurrence in modern computing. Some we hear about, some we don't. We shouldn't pretend otherwise.

 

He does have an angle. Let's not pretend otherwise. He has said so himself; if not explicitly then implicitly. Yes, he does post positive things. In a way he kinda has to or it'd look suspicious. However I've noticed he usually tries to add some negative points to bring it back down whenever possible. Does it matter? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

 

I think you're dismissing the issue callously. There's plenty of others posting news of varying topics that don't have a spin to it, so why can't the OP? It's like reading Breitbart or Huffington Post (depending on which side you're on).

 

But honestly I'm not gonna spend more time arguing the point. I can tell that it's a futile endeavor.

Man, it's almost as if some people were in a "fast lane" when it comes to some news and got to post about them before others, whereas they don't get as much information about other topics. You may have noticed it's often the same set of people who report on a given company or topic (be it apple, microsoft etc).

 

Even if that weren't the case (I honestly don't know if @zMeul has any contacts at amd or what, maybe he can elaborate) maybe that's just what he's interested in. Does that make the news he posts any less true? Does bias in his personal opinion (if there is any) compromise the validity of his sources?

[Trixanity]

29 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

It really isn't: Check percentages for Goodbytes and Microsoft and of his non-Microsoft topics also round up how many are about Nintendo.

Goodbytes posts a lot about Microsoft. His angle is the opposite of zMeul's. It doesn't take a genius to figure out. I'm not sure what your point is though. Considering the amount of tech news there is 25% is a lot. Sure, we all have different interests which would lend credence to the idea of having a large chunk of our information be about certain topics but here's the kicker: why spend a lot of time on something you dislike? I can understand spending time on something that excites you which I assume is Goodbytes' reason for doing it. 

Can you imagine spending hours of your free time digging up information on something you dislike? Or would you rather do something else? I'd personally go with the latter for obvious reasons.

 

Note: I have no intention of going through Goodbytes' history.

23 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Man, it's almost as if some people were in a "fast lane" when it comes to some news and got to post about them before others, whereas they don't get as much information about other topics. You may have noticed it's often the same set of people who report on a given company or topic (be it apple, microsoft etc).

 

Even if that weren't the case (I honestly don't know if @zMeul has any contacts at amd or what, maybe he can elaborate) maybe that's just what he's interested in. Does that make the news he posts any less true? Does bias in his personal opinion (if there is any) compromise the validity of his sources?

I doubt he has any contacts. Rather he probably spends a lot of time in certain sub-reddits and other more obscure news sites. That's where a lot of leaks, rumors and other goodies originate. 

The big outlets have editors that filter out a lot of the stuff and are generally posting news later as often times they relay rumors that came from said sub-reddits and other similar sources instead of having direct quotes from a source they have a relation with.

 

No one said what he posts is invalid especially considering that he has to post sources which allows the reader to circumvent the vitriol if one so desires. What I'm saying is that it would be better to tone down the rhetoric. In fact, he could add all the BS he wants in the comment section like everyone else. Not that I'd condone it but it would clean up his act considerably but of course wouldn't really detract from the agenda though. This post was pretty good for a zMeul post though.

 

Getting a bit off-topic though. We were supposed to discuss the errata and whether AMD is doomed or not.

[Misanthrope]

11 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Goodbytes posts a lot about Microsoft. His angle is the opposite of zMeul's. It doesn't take a genius to figure out. I'm not sure what your point is though. Considering the amount of tech news there is 25% is a lot. Sure, we all have different interests which would lend credence to the idea of having a large chunk of our information be about certain topics but here's the kicker: why spend a lot of time on something you dislike? I can understand spending time on something that excites you which I assume is Goodbytes' reason for doing it. 

Can you imagine spending hours of your free time digging up information on something you dislike? Or would you rather do something else? I'd personally go with the latter for obvious reasons.

You're operating under the premise that Goodbytes posts about a company cause he genuinely likes them. In practice, he posts obsessively in their defense often trying to clarify and immediately point out mistakes made by others (factual or perceived) so it ends up just as much about being confrontational of "the haters" as it is of liking something.

 

At one point it really doesn't matters if you post excessively to discredit or credit something if there's as much (in this case more) effort going into not only pointing out things but discrediting opposition and dissent to your positions. 

 

 

[Whispre]

On 5/13/2017 at 0:45 PM, Simon771 said:

Doesn't Ryzen also have problem with running Hyper-V in general?

I'm running a 2 node Server 2016 Hyper-Converged Hyper-V cluster at home (test environment) with so far no issues. running with Ryzen 1600 processors.

[Whispre]

Double post.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Whispre

[i_build_nanosuits]

Ryzen - Pre-Alpha - order yours now!

[SansVarnic]

To bad. Amd needs to get this addressed if they are not already.

[Wolther]

AMD get it together >.> 

[Guest Darth Revan]

12 hours ago, Jito463 said:

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote, and I admit that my first post here may have been more negative than was called for (though not without at least some merit), but I think most of the Intel/AMD comparisons were actually brought on by @Darth Revan's comment that AMD released a beta product.  This, of course, naturally led to many others pointing out that a bug in the product does not equate to the product being "beta", which was done by pointing out the bugs in previous Intel generations.

 

It's all about context.

Sorry for telling it the way it is.

AMD forced launched a product which was not yet ready for consumers.

While the processors themselves may not have an issues, the issue lies with the motherboards which were not ready for release.

Thus I called it, a beta product. A product which is still in development. And the price of buying Ryzen right now, is that people get to be beta testers.