Is Tidal a joke in sound quality?

[Belgiangurista]

I'm addicted to being stereophile but I'm a novice when it comes to being an audiophile, I'll explain.

I probably blew my ears up in my short DJ-ing-career, but I'm looking for richness, soundstage and depth. The lucious sound of music many know only by earpods and Beats. Sad really, because there's more and you can learn to pay attention to music to fully understand it's complexity.

 

MY GEAR:

+ a Tascam audio interface,

+ a Sennheiser HD650

+ And Tidal Hi-Fi, lossless sound (shh, my wife doesn't know yet )

 

I'm learning:

+ Audio/Hi-Fi communities consist of dicks and the rest have different opinions. That's why i'm posting here.

+ Somewhere on these internets I found: 1995 Chesky Records Guide To Critical Listening - The Ultimate Demonstration Disc

+ Check the description of that YouTube vid, you'll find Flac files.

 

Now,

If I play the Flac vs the Tidal version, man! the Flac version is better!

So, what am I paying €20/month for? I'm sure the 'latest' songs are studio-quality/lossless, but not every track in their library is, but it sells as a lossless platform? Are they going out of business when Spotify brings lossless?

[SSL]

If the version on Tidal is actually lossless, then it's probably a different master. That would explain the difference in sound. If it's not lossless, then you are indeed paying a premium for a service with limited coverage.

[Volbet]

We don't really have any reason currently to suspectTidal of streaming faux lossless files. We would have to do a spectrum analyzes of the tracks to either confirm or dispel that.

If it truely is lossy files disguised as lossless then the $20 premium is a complete rip-off. 

 

It is very likely that Tidal is getting it's own masters just like iTunes. That would explain the difference.

iTunes masters tend to be of much poorer quality than the masters found on physical media. I have no idea why they decide to to this, but I do have some hunches.

What you could try is the Tidal Masters thing they rolled out earlier this year. 

While most of the talk about it has been pure snakeoil (read MQA), there could be a mastering difference aswell. 

[Dackzy]

I do know that tidal has their own masters and I do know that not all the music is in flac. Hell I am 70% sure that they have some songs that are just mp3 disguised as FLAC.

I personally think 20$ is too much for what you get.

[Pomfinator]

Sigh...streaming services.  If you really want to support artists, go buy CDs and you will get lossless guaranteed. Also won't support a service that buys into the snake oil that is MQA.

[kokakolia]

5 hours ago, Pomfinator said:

Sigh...streaming services.  If you really want to support artists, go buy CDs and you will get lossless guaranteed. Also won't support a service that buys into the snake oil that is MQA.

The convenience of streaming is huge though. And buying physical media can be frustrating when the albums you're looking for are in limited print/discontinued. 

 

Buying CDs sucks. That's my 2 cents. 

[SSL]

3 hours ago, kokakolia said:

The convenience of streaming is huge though. And buying physical media can be frustrating when the albums you're looking for are in limited print/discontinued. 

 

Buying CDs sucks. That's my 2 cents. 

 

It's convenient if you're prepared to accept the compromises inherent to the format. 

 

Physical media is just a different approach to owning and listening to music. It encourages you to curate and savor each piece of music added to your library. 

[Pomfinator]

7 hours ago, kokakolia said:

The convenience of streaming is huge though. And buying physical media can be frustrating when the albums you're looking for are in limited print/discontinued. 

 

Buying CDs sucks. That's my 2 cents. 

I practice what I preach. Streaming services are an absolute cancer to the industry, you might as well be pirating with how little money they pay. Buying CD's is a PITA, but its better than supporting cancer.

[AntonChigurh]

14 hours ago, Volbet said:

iTunes masters tend to be of much poorer quality than the masters found on physical media. I have no idea why they decide to to this, but I do have some hunches.

They are? I never could tell the difference between the songs I bought on iTunes and ones I had imported from my CDs. Eh, it's probably just that my headphones were so shitty I couldn't make out the difference.

[Dackzy]

9 hours ago, Pomfinator said:

I practice what I preach. Streaming services are an absolute cancer to the industry, you might as well be pirating with how little money they pay. Buying CD's is a PITA, but its better than supporting cancer.

 

And then there are people that buy used CD's. Totally not me....  

[Pomfinator]

17 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

And then there are people that buy used CD's. Totally not me....  

It still means someone down the line bought that CD, which means you just gave like 10000x more revenue to the artist than a Spotify play.

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, Pomfinator said:

It still means someone down the line bought that CD, which means you just gave like 10000x more revenue to the artist than a Spotify play.

what if I told you I rip the CD's and then later sell them on a garage marked again....  

Though I do like streaming services, mainly because they are nice when you run, bike and fitness. My phone is filled with things I actually need for school and work, so I got very little space for music on my phone, that is why I do use streaming services from time to time and my DAP broke (again, shitty fiio quality)

[Volbet]

5 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

what if I told you I rip the CD's and then later sell them on a garage marked again....  

Someone has still supported the artist in that chain, since the CD had to come from somewhere (and that's hopefully a legal source).

And if you're a small artist on a lable the payouts of streaming is usually a complete joke. With the current deals the artist get Pennies on the Dollar compared to the lable.

If you're an independent artist it's not as bad, but the payout is still not as good as the payout from the sale of physical media. 

 

9 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

They are? I never could tell the difference between the songs I bought on iTunes and ones I had imported from my CDs. Eh, it's probably just that my headphones were so shitty I couldn't make out the difference.

Yep, iTunes demands to get their own masters

https://www.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/

 

But I have no idea why lables and/or mastering houses feel the need to have a deaf chimp make the masters that go on iTunes. 

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Someone has still supported the artist in that chain, since the CD had to come from somewhere (and that's hopefully a legal source).

And if you're a small artist on a lable the payouts of streaming is usually a complete joke. With the current deals the artist get Pennies on the Dollar compared to the lable.

If you're an independent artist it's not as bad, but the payout is still not as good as the payout from the sale of physical media. 

5

True, though I do believe that streaming services do offer some good things, like an easy way to share your music, find new music and ofc give people with little money an opportunity to listen to the music they like and not just what the radio plays. Ofc this comes at a cost, the artist doesn't get paid that well, especially if they are a small time artist. Plus there are just some CD's that are hard to get, maybe because they are old or only published in other countries.

 

I do think that you should buy physical media when it is possible, both from a quality standpoint, but also because the artist gets paid more.

[Pomfinator]

21 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

what if I told you I rip the CD's and then later sell them on a garage marked again....  

Though I do like streaming services, mainly because they are nice when you run, bike and fitness. My phone is filled with things I actually need for school and work, so I got very little space for music on my phone, that is why I do use streaming services from time to time and my DAP broke (again, shitty fiio quality)

I have the perfect DAP for you.

 

https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/astell-kern-ak-380/

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, Pomfinator said:

I have the perfect DAP for you.

 

https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/astell-kern-ak-380/

 

LOL, sure m8 let me just spend all of the money I have saved up for desktop, laptop, audio and a phone upgrade on a DAP. Think I will just buy a Cowon Plenue D at some point, the reviews are good. Or simply just say fuck it and not buy a new DAP.

[Volbet]

12 minutes ago, Pomfinator said:

I have the perfect DAP for you.

 

https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/astell-kern-ak-380/

 

23 hours ago, Pomfinator said:

 Also won't support a service that buys into the snake oil that is MQA.

Wait just a second....

 

18 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

True, though I do believe that streaming services do offer some good things, like an easy way to share your music, find new music and ofc give people with little money an opportunity to listen to the music they like and not just what the radio plays. Ofc this comes at a cost, the artist doesn't get paid that well, especially if they are a small time artist. Plus there are just some CD's that are hard to get, maybe because they are old or only published in other countries.

 

I do think that you should buy physical media when it is possible, both from a quality standpoint, but also because the artist gets paid more.

Ohh, I'm not saying that there aren't good things about streaming services. 

It is convinient and easy. 

 

But I do think the negative side should also be mentioned. 

[Pomfinator]

2 minutes ago, Volbet said:

 

 

I don't get it? What does MQS have to do with MQA? They're completely different things. MQA is a lossy format masquerading as a "lossless Hi-Fi" format, and MQS is just Hi-Res packaged in a different form.  At this point we know the Hi-Res marker is bullshit, unfortunately people haven't learned their lesson with MQA yet.

[Volbet]

Just now, Pomfinator said:

I don't get it? What does MQS have to do with MQA? They're completely different things.

MQS is just a brand name. 

Astell & Kern sell MQ-A sourced files under the MQS name

[Pomfinator]

12 minutes ago, Volbet said:

MQS is just a brand name. 

Astell & Kern sell MQ-A sourced files under the MQS name

MQS and MQA are completely unrelated. MQS is just A&K's equivalent to the Hi-Res tramp stamp, all it refers to is higher bitdepth and/or sampling rate than Red Book.  MQA is something completely different, it is a proprietary bullshit lossy codec that is trying to sell itself as lossless.  Another thing is that MQS appears on A&K's marketing material 2 years before MQA is even created.

[Volbet]

13 minutes ago, Pomfinator said:

MQS and MQA are completely unrelated. MQS is just A&K's equivalent to the Hi-Res tramp stamp, all it refers to is higher bitdepth and/or sampling rate than Red Book.  MQA is something completely different, it is a proprietary bullshit lossy codec that is trying to sell itself as lossless.  Another thing is that MQS appears on A&K's marketing material 2 years before MQA is even created.

I think we're talking about two different things then.

I guess you're refering to Mastering Quality Authenticated, while I'm refering to Mastering Quality Analog, which is a sub category of A&K's MQS refering to the sound source being analog tape rather than a digital master. 

[AntonChigurh]

8 hours ago, Volbet said:

Yep, iTunes demands to get their own masters

https://www.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/

 

But I have no idea why labels and/or mastering houses feel the need to have a deaf chimp make the masters that go on iTunes. 

"Deaf chimp" I'd say that's fairly accurate haha

[Belgiangurista]

Awesome info I didn't know! Thx guys. 

 

I got this in thr Q&A of Tidal:

 

What is TIDAL Masters?

TIDAL has partnered with MQA (Master Quality Authenticated) to deliver guaranteed master-quality recordings directly from the master source - an audio experience that the artist intended.  

 

How much music is available in Master quality?

We have over 30,000 tracks from Warner Music Group, our TIDAL artist owners and key independent labels. We will continue to add more master-quality content over time.

[SSL]

2 hours ago, Belgiangurista said:

an audio experience that the artist intended. 

 

Totally dishonest. MQA is nothing more than another cash grab, and specifically a way to get soft DRM into a widely (they hope) adopted audio format. Terrible for consumers, terrible for the industry.