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Ryzen's Infinity Fabric Clock Speed is Linked to Memory Clock Speed... Might Explain Why Memory OCs Make a Noticeable Impact in Performance on Ryzen?

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Or alternatively, the picture from AMD:

a5gdj003gsly.png

So basically, it seems that the clock speed at which the infinity fabric used to connect the CCXs in Ryzen is governed by the memory clock speed. People have noticed quite noticeable performance improvements from overclocking memory on Ryzen, and this could be part of the reason. I'm not too sure, but it could also potentially partially explain why Ryzen is having a hard time overclock past around 3600 MHz, though I'd guess that it's more of an IMC thing rather than the Infinity Fabric not being able to run at those clock speeds.

 

If we do a little math, we find that the transfer rate of the infinity fabric between CCXs is 256bits*1066 MHz*1byte/8bits = 34112 MB/s or about 34 GB/s. However, if you just overclock the memory to 2933 MHz (which seems to be a popular overclock for Ryzen, not sure why), the transfer rate becomes 256 bits*2933 MHz/2*1 byte/8 bits = 46928 MB/s or about 47 GB/s. This is quite a substantial increase in bandwidth and I'm guessing that this explains some of the increase in performance from memory overclocking, and tells us that Ryzen may not be as memory bandwidth starved as we initially thought. Honestly, though, I wish they had made the two have been separate so that the infinity fabric could be OCed separately. What are your thoughts?

 

EDIT: So courtesy of @Phate.exe and @VanayadGaming, here's a video and picture of benchmarks of a 1700x@4 ghz with memory speeds ranging from 2133 MHz to 3600 MHz:

4C3EAE98-71EB-42DD-9C9C-3D9F1FD6F785-7876-000011A715D7E7F8_tmp.thumb.png.a8f79289a3f02c970dfd24ac91dcb50f.png

As you can tell the compiled picture is just a bunch of benchmarks from the video stitched together.

 

As you'll notice, if you compare Ryzen on 2133 MHz to the 7700k it's pretty much the same results as we've been seeing for near.y a month now. HOWEVER, at 3200 MHz, Ryzen is essentially trading blows with the 7700k, and at 3600 MHz I'd say Ryzen is actually ahead!

 

This is really interesting and with new bioses that support higher frequency ram better being pushed out to am4 motherboards right now if you're getting Ryzen you should probably at least be buying 3200 MHz ram to go with it. Unfortunately, 3600 MHz RAM is still quite expensive, with 2 8gb sticks costing at least $150, but 3200 MHz goes for pretty reasonable prices with 2 8gb sticks costing $110-$120 or so.

 

I personally will wait for a bit more well known sources to test and confirm this but if it is true that Ryzen can trade blows with the 7700k when using higher frequency ram then Ryzen 5 could end up truly competing with Intel even in gaming when using 3200 MHz RAM.

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7 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

snip

Hmm... similar to their APUs, where it benefits from faster clock ram. Faster the better for their igpu.

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I didn't expect RYZEN to be two 4 core things connected by infinity fabric (I'll call it micro-pcie, ok?)

 

but why..?

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138 is a good number.

 

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Just now, themctipers said:

I didn't expect RYZEN to be two 4 core things connected by infinity fabric (I'll call it micro-pcie, ok?)

 

but why..?

because that way they can lower production costs and make their CPUs more modular.

it's the way of the future IMO.

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1 minute ago, RadiatingLight said:

because that way they can lower production costs and make their CPUs more modular.

it's the way of the future IMO.

*sighs*

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138 is a good number.

 

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1 minute ago, RadiatingLight said:

according to my uncle's barber's drug dealer's friend who once went to a strip club owned by lisa su's cousin

that source is more reputable than wcftech

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2 minutes ago, themctipers said:

*sighs*

Well it's a comparatively small price to pay for the 50% lower cost over intel 8 cores.

 

Depending on how the Ryzen quad cores are built, they could either suck or be really good.

if they are a single CCX, then it would be freaking awesome. on the other hand, if they are 2 CCXs with only 2 cores enabled on each, then that would really fucking suck.

^ although they would still be good CPUs don't get me wrong.

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Just now, RadiatingLight said:

Well it's a comparatively small price to pay for the 50% lower cost over intel 8 cores.

 

Depending on how the Ryzen quad cores are built, they could either suck or be really good.

if they are a single CCX, then it would be freaking awesome. on the other hand, if they are 2 CCXs with only 2 cores enabled on each, then that would really fucking suck.

^ although they would still be good CPUs don't get me wrong.

Now tell me how amazing the savings are with a 768p laptop screen

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138 is a good number.

 

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Just now, themctipers said:

Now tell me how amazing the savings are with a 768p laptop screen

pretty damn good TBH.

on small screens it's not that noticeable.

plus gaming performance is excelent

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16 minutes ago, themctipers said:

I didn't expect RYZEN to be two 4 core things connected by infinity fabric (I'll call it micro-pcie, ok?)

 

but why..?

Because it's easier. Cache and stuff gets really complicated the larger it is and it would probably add at least a month or two in development to make a single CCX eight core die. Maybe it's something we'll see with Zen2 though probably not.

11 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

Well it's a comparatively small price to pay for the 50% lower cost over intel 8 cores.

 

Depending on how the Ryzen quad cores are built, they could either suck or be really good.

if they are a single CCX, then it would be freaking awesome. on the other hand, if they are 2 CCXs with only 2 cores enabled on each, then that would really fucking suck.

^ although they would still be good CPUs don't get me wrong.

Don't want to ruin your hopes but the hexa-cores are 3+3 and quad cores are 2+2. And yes, this is confirmed straight from AMD. Honestly it makes sense from a yields standpoint since if it was 4+0 if there were two cores on separate CCXs that were bad then you couldn't do sh*t with that die but now you could make that into a six core CPU. With 2+2 there's 36 ways they could arrange that but with 4+0 it's 2 ways.

 

EDIT: But yeah it sucks from a performance standpoint though less cores will be utilizing the fabric so maybe its bottleneck will be less noticeable. And maybe AMD will eventually have 4 core dies.

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It really hit Ryzen twice as hard in the initial reviews, that BIOS did not support much more than 2666mhz ram. That being said, I wonder why the fabric is synced to ram, rather than the clockrate of the CPU itself (which would make much more sense). Especially when you consider that the fabric runs at the actual speed of ddr (dual data rate), which means it will run 1333mhz when running 2666mhz ram (which only runs 1333mhz at dual data rate/twice per clock).

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10 minutes ago, Notional said:

It really hit Ryzen twice as hard in the initial reviews, that BIOS did not support much more than 2666mhz ram. That being said, I wonder why the fabric is synced to ram, rather than the clockrate of the CPU itself (which would make much more sense).

CPU clock speed is a lot more variable, while RAM is a lot more stable in terms of frequency. It kinda makes sense since RAM is related to data transfer, which is what the infinity fabric does.

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26 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

Well it's a comparatively small price to pay for the 50% lower cost over intel 8 cores.

 

Depending on how the Ryzen quad cores are built, they could either suck or be really good.

if they are a single CCX, then it would be freaking awesome. on the other hand, if they are 2 CCXs with only 2 cores enabled on each, then that would really fucking suck.

^ although they would still be good CPUs don't get me wrong.

They're a 2+2 arrangement, and hex-core are 3+3. 

 

Sorry to disappoint. 

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The extreme scaling with memmory speeds has been reported since the NDA lifted.

So the best thing AMD can do (on the short term) to up the 1080p gaming performance is to fix compatibility and get everybody using DDR4 3200Mhz.

 

They said they are working on it but I don't know how long it will take.

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I thought we already knew this like 2 weeks ago?

 

From this thread. 

with this source by The Stilt? https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/

Quote

 

The Data Fabric

 

The northbridge of Zeppelin is officially called as the data fabric (DF). The DF frequency is always linked to the operating frequency of the memory controller with a ratio of 1:2 (e.g. DDR4-2667 MEMCLK = 1333MHz DFICLK). This means that the memory speed will directly affect the data fabric performance as well. In some cases, it may appear that the performance of Zeppelin scales extremely well with the increased memory speed, however that is necessarily not the case.

In many of these cases the abnormally good scaling is caused by the higher data fabric clock (DFICLK) resulting from the higher memory speed, rather than the increased performance of the memory itself.

The highest officially supported memory speed for consumer (AM4) Zeppelin parts is 2667MHz (two single rank / sided modules in total) or 2400MHz (two dual rank / sided modules in total), however memory ratios for 2933MHz and 3200MHz speeds are available (not officially supported), at least on some motherboards.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Humbug said:

17098594_1585065421522698_24714954322372

This is basically the only picture I've seen stating that performance increses this much with faster RAM.

 

I overclocked my sticks from 1600Mhz to 2000Mhz, (and tightened timings) but only got an 8% performance boost in benchmarks like unigine heaven or metro last light.

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11 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

This is basically the only picture I've seen stating that performance increses this much with faster RAM.

 

I overclocked my sticks from 1600Mhz to 2000Mhz, (and tightened timings) but only got an 8% performance boost in benchmarks like unigine heaven or metro last light.

With memory OC you will only see gains with CPU-bound scenarios. Like GTAV, Witcher3, etc. Not Unigine. lmfao

idk

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15 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

I overclocked my sticks from 1600Mhz to 2000Mhz, (and tightened timings) but only got an 8% performance boost in benchmarks like unigine heaven or metro last light.

isn't 8% considered a good gain from a memory overclock? In the pic I posted they had gone all the way up to 3200Mhz. Obviously not every game will gain big but what needs to be tested is whether the outliers where ryzen is underperforming vs intel do gain...

 

even AMD is prioritizing this. 5:20

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yWdhLXl5a5s

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The first one is fine but then you screwed up by using the memory speed instead of the IMC/Fabric speed @DocSwag. The 2933 DDR4 would make the fabric = 256*(2933/2 as 2133/1066 ~= 2 thus 1467Mhz)*1/8 = 47GB/s

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