New lithium-ion battery tech offers 3x capacity in same volume

[Teak]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3176671/components/beyond-lithium-ion-researchers-reveal-a-safer-longer-lasting-solid-state-battery-alternative.html

 

Quote

John Goodenough, the Fermi award winner who identified the lithium cobalt oxide material that forms the cathode used in today’s Li-ion batteries, teamed up with Maria Helena Braga to develop a battery that uses solid glass as an electrolyte.

 

The 94 year old creator of the original lithium-ion battery and his team has created a new solid state lithium battery that is safer, faster charging, and offers almost three times the capacity of normal lithium-ion batteries. No word on production, but maybe one day we'll get phones that last two or three days 

[vanished]

You know perfectly well we'll just get phones that are 2 or 3 times thinner 

 

[Teak]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

PS, if you could add a quote form your article 

To comply with the posting guidelines, that would be great

Better?

[vanished]

Quote

John Goodenough

omg that name  

 

I guess existing batteries just weren't...

Good enough!  

 

Also,

Quote

One of the causes of short circuits is something known as “dendrites,” metal whiskers that can spontaneously form and poke through the electrolyte barrier separating the battery’s cathode and anode. (In Samsung’s case, it appears that other manufacturing defects were at fault, however, and not dendrites.) Goodenough and Braga claim that the glass electrolyte their solid-state batteries use prevents these dendrites from forming.

My understanding was that this was only an issue with the original solid lithium batteries that you just don't see in use anymore, and that the dendrite problem was solved with the introduction of lithium ion   (not to say lithium ion isn't still quite dangerous, but that problem was fixed afaik).

 

I guess I shouldn't expect too much from the site that brought us this masterpiece though 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3142051/components-processors/intel-packs-more-horsepower-in-its-monster-22-core-processor.html

[Bensemus]

And this will never make it to market. Plenty of advances seem to be made in the lab but none of them actually make it out of the lab.

[PenPoint]

LG may already have that tech : '17 gram laptop has an amazing battery life.

[Glenwing]

Never heard this one before...

[TrigrH]

4 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

Never heard this one before...

id rather ryzen leaks at this point

[another random person]

Hopefully Nokia battery life is coming to smartphones....gee I missed those phones.

[vanished]

So follow up on what I mentioned above, I think I know what they're getting at.  Solid lithium batteries are about 3x as energy dense as lithium ion, but they have this dendrite problem.  That's why everything is lithium ion and has been forever.  I think what this article is trying to say is that they have developed a way to use solid lithium safely, since the solid electrolyte prevents the growth of dendrites.  It's very badly worded though and explains none of this, even making it sound like dendrites are still a problem in lithium ion batteries.

[mama_fluxus]

45 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I guess I shouldn't expect too much from the site that brought us this masterpiece though 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3142051/components-processors/intel-packs-more-horsepower-in-its-monster-22-core-processor.html

Wow, that is a really bad article. 

 

" While 5 percent may sound like a small number, it’s big for those installing thousands of servers running on the chips. Four-socket servers can have up to 88 CPU cores and run up a 20 percent gain in performance improvements. " 

I'm pretty sure that's not how you add those numbers  

[Prysin]

3 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

You know perfectly well we'll just get phones that are 2 or 3 times thinner 

 

except perhaps from Sony and Huawei. They seem to be the only ones left appreciating battery life. Whilst Sony DO make retard products with 4k screens, they atleast make a "cut down" 1080p model with 3k mAh battery that lasts 1-2 days. Unlike the other turds who go for 1440p Qualcomm hungry-dragon^(tm) that lays waste to the battery in hours

[MrDynamicMan]

4 hours ago, Teak said:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3176671/components/beyond-lithium-ion-researchers-reveal-a-safer-longer-lasting-solid-state-battery-alternative.html

 

 

The 94 year old creator of the original lithium-ion battery and his team has created a new solid state lithium battery that is safer, faster charging, and offers almost three times the capacity of normal lithium-ion batteries. No word on production, but maybe one day we'll get phones that last two or three days 

>94 year old inventor

 

I have a new hero. 

[captain cactus]

Tesla's happy I guess. 

[TOMPPIX]

5 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

omg that name  

 

I guess existing batteries just weren't...

Good enough!  

oh jeez... can someone ban this guy. 

[Guest Kloaked]

5 hours ago, Glenwing said:

Never heard this one before...

Yeah whatever happened to the other breakthrough that was supposed to double or triple the capacity of batteries and even take up smaller space?

[tbake0155]

7 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

So follow up on what I mentioned above, I think I know what they're getting at.  Solid lithium batteries are about 3x as energy dense as lithium ion, but they have this dendrite problem.  That's why everything is lithium ion and has been forever.  I think what this article is trying to say is that they have developed a way to use solid lithium safely, since the solid electrolyte prevents the growth of dendrites.  It's very badly worded though and explains none of this, even making it sound like dendrites are still a problem in lithium ion batteries.

 

I can't speak to the nature of this new development, however, it is my understanding that the original lithium batteries were lithium ion not lithium polymer.  It was these lithium ion batteries that were regularly exploding due to the dendrite formation during recharge.  The dendrites reached a certain size and they penetrated through the cell barrier into the anode and caused the battery to instantly discharge.

 

Lithium polymer batteries were the next step in development where the safety concerns related to dendrite formation were mostly rectified.  Lithium polymer batteries are what is widely in use today, not lithium ion.  Although there are still devices that use lithium ion batteries.

 

In general, lipo batteries are larger and cost more for the same energy density as lithium ion.  So developers sacrificed size and cost for safety.

 

That's my limited understanding, but maybe it will help clear some confusion.

 

[vanished]

1 hour ago, tbake0155 said:

 

I can't speak to the nature of this new development, however, it is my understanding that the original lithium batteries were lithium ion not lithium polymer.  It was these lithium ion batteries that were regularly exploding due to the dendrite formation during recharge.  The dendrites reached a certain size and they penetrated through the cell barrier into the anode and caused the battery to instantly discharge.

 

Lithium polymer batteries were the next step in development where the safety concerns related to dendrite formation were mostly rectified.  Lithium polymer batteries are what is widely in use today, not lithium ion.  Although there are still devices that use lithium ion batteries.

 

In general, lipo batteries are larger and cost more for the same energy density as lithium ion.  So developers sacrificed size and cost for safety.

 

That's my limited understanding, but maybe it will help clear some confusion.

 

I'm talking pre lithium ion though.  Not sure if they ever actually went into production, but literally using a solid piece of lithium gets you roughly 3x the energy density.  The problem is dendrites forming from the surface.  My understanding is the solution to this was to use lithium ion instead, where rather than a solid block, you just populate many small compartments with movable pieces that have no set structure.  Yes, I know lithium ion has largely been superseded by lithium polymer at this point but I'm not interested in that for the sake of this topic - that's just one more step beyond.  

[LegendKillerRG]

Oh no, more news about batteries technologies that won't go into production. Many news about battery reaching new level of improvement started back in 2010, never reach production nor have seen its light of days.

[tbake0155]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'm talking pre lithium ion though.  Not sure if they ever actually went into production, but literally using a solid piece of lithium gets you roughly 3x the energy density.  The problem is dendrites forming from the surface.  My understanding is the solution to this was to use lithium ion instead, where rather than a solid block, you just populate many small compartments with movable pieces that have no set structure.  Yes, I know lithium ion has largely been superseded by lithium polymer at this point but I'm not interested in that for the sake of this topic - that's just one more step beyond.  

Dendrite formation is still a problem as far as I know.  The effects have been largely mitigated by using a carbon (graphite) anode.  Ideally, the cathode and anode would be lithium.  However, the problem is that dendrites form on the anode during charging and lithium prolifically produces dendrites during charging. (I was incorrect earlier stating they project from the cathode.)

 

There's some research into the possibility that the formation of dendrites on the anode is from contaminants below the surface of the anode, and not specifically from the material itself, but I believe that study is still underway.

 

So modern li-ion batteries and even li-po batteries have dendrite formation, it's just that the amount is typically not enough to cause damage because the anode is graphite.

I'm beyond my expertise in this area, so I will concede from here! 

[That Norwegian Guy]

8 hours ago, Prysin said:

except perhaps from Sony and Huawei. They seem to be the only ones left appreciating battery life.

*cough* Xiaomi *cough*

 

Quite pleased with my 4850mAh

 

Some Chinese MFTs like Leagoo claim a "6000" mAh battery but it's actually not, it's around 3200. And then there's the brick from Oukitel, the K10000.

 

Xiaomi doesn't lie however.

[vanished]

15 minutes ago, tbake0155 said:

[...] The effects have been largely mitigated by using a carbon (graphite) anode.

My understanding is this is what a Lithium ion battery is.  Rather than a solid block of lithium, there's an inert structure that holds the ions and lets them come and go as they will.

15 minutes ago, tbake0155 said:

 Ideally, the cathode and anode would be lithium.  However, the problem is that dendrites form on the anode during charging and lithium prolifically produces dendrites during charging.[...]

Yes exactly.  And I think that's the breakthrough here - they've developed an electrolyte that prevents formation, allowing them to go back to solid lithium and reap the energy density benefits that come with it.  At least, I think that's what's going on.  Again, the article could have been better imo.

 

 

As for the rest... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk, I have limited knowledge in this area too but enough to question whats going on...  

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah saw this, hopefully so we really need new type of batteries already.

[BuckGup]

2 minutes ago, Fooshi said:

News about battery tech is slowly turning into Half-Life 3 style hype.

 

I don't care what researchers have made anymore. Show us a working prototype or something at least. 

Batteries take decades to change. Nicad and lead acid in the 80s-90s, then nimh through the 00s. Now we have Lipos and Lion

[fapoulous]

Given that this guy (Goodenough) developes them and that they are alledgedly in negotiations with manufacturers to produce these batteries it's not that unreasonable to assume that they will hit the market sooner or later. Might be a good idea to invest in the companies who obtain the licences to produce, once there are signs of success with the manufacturing.