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Do you believe in a god?

Natsoup

Do you believe in a god?  

210 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe in a god?

    • Yes
      73
    • No
      139


4 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

This individual does something that doesn't apply to all atheists: They assume that all atheists are of the strong type, whereas many are weak atheists, such as myself. I am not claiming that God is not real, just like I don't claim unicorns are not real, or that fairies do not exist. I am not going to claim that Spider-Man doesn't exist, or that Batman doesn't exist. What I will claim is that the evidence of any of those is sorely lacking, but that fairies, unicorns, Spider-Man, and Batman could all exist on some planet billions of light years away from Earth. 

 

In regards to God, my stance remains the same. I consider evidence of God to be lacking, and the concept of infinity itself is a paradoxical one. 

 

What causes atheists to argue with people who believe in a deity? People who make definitive statements that their God is real. The burden of evidence does not lie upon skeptics. It lies squarely on the believers. 

 

"I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue."

This is a claim that cannot be addressed. There is no evidence for this statement. 

Very valid points here, I must say. If we can't rule out one possibility, we can't rule out another (I'm just guessing at what you addressed in the first paragraph). 

 

If I'm wrong and I don't go to heaven when I die, then I don't exist anymore and that's the end of me. No feelings, no thoughts, no nothing. Simple (and my preferred option to be honest for the sake of others who don't believe with me).

 

If anyone who doesn't accept Yeshua (Jesus in Hebrew; I'm a Messianic Jew lolz) as their Lord and savior is wrong... Well, they've got quite a bit more to worry about in the end. 

 

Also, personal experience was a great way that helped me to realize that G-d was real and actively working in my life :) I was healed of a similar heart condition that my younger brother passed away from, I found a way to get through college with no student debt (no scholarships, mind you)... And the little everyday-type of things too. If my G-d is real to me, then leave it to the individual to decide. Perception is reality, after all. 

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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2 minutes ago, kingkickolas said:

Right, I understand that you believe that. What I'm saying is that you have no justification for that belief. In other words, your belief in the existence and the acts of God are equally plausible as the existence of unicorns and Narnia. If you're comfortable with that standard of proof, well... let's just say I'd be embarrassed to admit that publicly. 

 

Sorry to say that man-made facts are the only facts we have, imperfect and improving as they are. All Biblical claims have either been proven not to be true, or not proven to be true (in fact, not even remotely hinted at being true).

Facts and logical conclusions make you sure of your stance. Faith and the comfort I have in walking and living life alongside Yeshua makes me sure of mine. 

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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10 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

If anyone who doesn't accept Yeshua (Jesus in Hebrew; I'm a Messianic Jew lolz) as their Lord and savior is wrong... Well, they've got quite a bit more to worry about in the end. 

What do you think will happen to non-believers?

10 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Also, personal experience was a great way that helped me to realize that G-d was real and actively working in my life :) I was healed of a similar heart condition that my younger brother passed away from, I found a way to get through college with no student debt (no scholarships, mind you)... And the little everyday-type of things too. If my G-d is real to me, then leave it to the individual to decide. Perception is reality, after all. 

What about the people who believe in the same deity as you who don't have those luxuries? What about people who cannot survive properly? 

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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2 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Very valid points here, I must say. If we can't rule out one possibility, we can't rule out another (I'm just guessing at what you addressed in the first paragraph). 

 

If I'm wrong and I don't go to heaven when I die, then I don't exist anymore and that's the end of me. No feelings, no thoughts, no nothing. Simple (and my preferred option to be honest for the sake of others who don't believe with me).

 

If anyone who doesn't accept Yeshua (Jesus in Hebrew; I'm a Messianic Jew lolz) as their Lord and savior is wrong... Well, they've got quite a bit more to worry about in the end. 

 

Also, personal experience was a great way that helped me to realize that G-d was real and actively working in my life :) I was healed of a similar heart condition that my younger brother passed away from, I found a way to get through college with no student debt (no scholarships, mind you)... And the little everyday-type of things too. If my G-d is real to me, then leave it to the individual to decide. Perception is reality, after all. 

It's always stunning to me how religious people live with such cognitive dissonance. When your brother dies of a disease, well that's just life, but when you are healed of it, it's due to the greatness of God. This is just self-reinforcing filtering, and really shameful reasoning.

 

1 minute ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Facts and logical conclusions make you sure of your stance. Faith and the comfort I have in walking and living life alongside Yeshua makes me sure of mine. 

Well, I think we can both agree on the dichotomy that I'm glad to see you've drawn. At least in that we've established religious beliefs as illogical and  non-factual.

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2 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

What do you think will happen to non-believers?

What about the people who believe in the same deity as you who don't have those luxuries? What about people who cannot survive properly? 

Anyone who does not accept Yeshua into their hearts and strive to be like Him will be sent to Hell and the pit of fire. I'm sure no one wants to do that for eternity, which is why G-d sent us his only Son to die in our place. I find that very loving of Him...

 

What about those who perished from the disease they've been afflicted with? They were sent to paradise ahead of time! :) Everyone has a time to leave this world. Death is only the gateway, for lack of a better word. Family will mourn, but the dead do not mourn. 

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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1 minute ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Anyone who does not accept Yeshua into their hearts and strive to be like Him will be sent to Hell and the pit of fire. I'm sure no one wants to do that for eternity, which is why G-d sent us his only Son to die in our place. I find that very loving of Him...

What is Hell, and the "pit of fire" to you?

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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Missing the third option, can't conclusively prove there isn't a God and also can't prove there is one.

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5 minutes ago, kingkickolas said:

It's always stunning to me how religious people live with such cognitive dissonance. When your brother dies of a disease, well that's just life, but when you are healed of it, it's due to the greatness of God. This is just self-reinforcing filtering, and really shameful reasoning.

 

Well, I think we can both agree on the dichotomy that I'm glad to see you've drawn. At least in that we've established religious beliefs as illogical and  non-factual.

I'm sitting here in barrack just wondering what you have to gain from tearing me down for my beliefs. Are you getting money from this demonstration of your inability to accept the fact that I have faith and love for anyone? Confidence or XP boost? Eh, I doubt it lol Please be respectful toward me, just as I have for anyone I've talked to in this thread. I have nothing but love to share

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

What is Hell, and the "pit of fire" to you?

Hell is (once again for lack of an alternative phrase) sort of like purgatory but with torment and fire. The pit of fire is where Lucifer will be cast along with his followers. Everlasting torment in darkness, turmoil and every known and unknown pain that exists. The whole "pit of fire" is a summary of it all, just for the sake of not explaining everything that is included. 

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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1 minute ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Hell is (once again for lack of an alternative phrase) sort of like purgatory but with torment and fire. The pit of fire is where Lucifer will be cast along with his followers. Everlasting torment in darkness, turmoil and every known and unknown pain that exists. The whole "pit of fire" is a summary of it all, just for the sake of not explaining everything that is included. 

How is that loving exactly? I don't know of anyone that would consider torture an act of love.

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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2 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I'm sitting here in barrack just wondering what you have to gain from tearing me down for my beliefs. Are you getting money from this demonstration of your inability to accept the fact that I have faith and love for anyone? Confidence or XP boost? Eh, I doubt it lol Please be respectful toward me, just as I have for anyone I've talked to in this thread. I have nothing but love to share

I don't consider, especially Christian, religious beliefs at all respectful. But I think I have been respectful, we've just been having a debate. Nothing but love to share... except for all that hellfire and torture for the non-believers. Classic.

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6 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Anyone who does not accept Yeshua into their hearts and strive to be like Him will be sent to Hell and the pit of fire. I'm sure no one wants to do that for eternity, which is why G-d sent us his only Son to die in our place. I find that very loving of Him...

 

What about those who perished from the disease they've been afflicted with? They were sent to paradise ahead of time! :) Everyone has a time to leave this world. Death is only the gateway, for lack of a better word. Family will mourn, but the dead do not mourn. 

Oh piss off. There are millions of people who can barely afford food who worship your filthy god. It didn't help them, they still died, they still only lived a life of pain and strife.

- snip-

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6 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I'm sitting here in barrack just wondering what you have to gain from tearing me down for my beliefs. Are you getting money from this demonstration of your inability to accept the fact that I have faith and love for anyone? Confidence or XP boost? Eh, I doubt it lol Please be respectful toward me, just as I have for anyone I've talked to in this thread. I have nothing but love to share

He's probably doing it because he's disgusted that you can simply wave away all the issues on the world as 'gods plan' or 'just how life is' while whenever something good happens its "look god really cares.

 

I'll use the typical example.

85 dead in train crash, one girl sole survivor.

 

"Oh, look hoe the Lord loves us, he spared the little girl."

 

Fuck off. Where was god for the other 85 people on that train?

- snip-

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1 minute ago, Godlygamer23 said:

How is that loving exactly?

I serve a jealous G-d. He wants us all to simply follow Him and do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves. If we choose not to love the one who created all, you're going against the creator and He'll do as he wishes. We brought sin and damnation into this world with out disobedience at the start, with Adam and Eve going against G-d's restriction. We ate from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thus... Damning our souls to suffering away from his mercy. 

 

With Yeshua's sacrifice, He's made it extremely easy to avoid perishing for our sins (past, present and future). I'd saying sacrificing G-d's only son for all of humanity is pretty loving

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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8 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Anyone who does not accept Yeshua into their hearts and strive to be like Him will be sent to Hell and the pit of fire. I'm sure no one wants to do that for eternity, which is why G-d sent us his only Son to die in our place. I find that very loving of Him...

 

What about those who perished from the disease they've been afflicted with? They were sent to paradise ahead of time! :) Everyone has a time to leave this world. Death is only the gateway, for lack of a better word. Family will mourn, but the dead do not mourn. 

This has always confused me, how do religious people justify someone being sent to hell simply for rejecting a God who according to those same religious people created everything. Including the free will to decide not to follow a God. Related to that, how can it be justified for individuals of another faith to be sent to hell when they had no way of knowing who the right God was?

 

Then there is the final element in how it can be justified for someone whose only crime is to not believe/believe in the wrong God to go to hell when someone else who may have committed murder and has been absolved can still go to paradise.

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1 minute ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I serve a jealous G-d. He wants us all to simply follow Him and do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves. If we choose not to love the one who created all, you're going against the creator and He'll do as he wishes. We brought sin and damnation into this world with out disobedience at the start, with Adam and Eve going against G-d's restriction. We ate from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thus... Damning our souls to suffering away from his mercy. 

 

With Yeshua's sacrifice, He's made it extremely easy to avoid perishing for our sins (past, present and future). I'd saying sacrificing G-d's only son for all of humanity is pretty loving

Suffering for an eternity for a finite number of sins that we've committed seems a bit harsh, especially when that suffering will be extreme.

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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2 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I serve a jealous G-d. He wants us all to simply follow Him and do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves. If we choose not to love the one who created all, you're going against the creator and He'll do as he wishes. We brought sin and damnation into this world with out disobedience at the start, with Adam and Eve going against G-d's restriction. We ate from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thus... Damning our souls to suffering away from his mercy. 

 

With Yeshua's sacrifice, He's made it extremely easy to avoid perishing for our sins (past, present and future). I'd saying sacrificing G-d's only son for all of humanity is pretty loving

Yet he is also supposed to be perfect, isn't jealousy a sin? So are you then saying your God is sinful?

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5 minutes ago, kingkickolas said:

I don't consider, especially Christian, religious beliefs at all respectful. But I think I have been respectful, we've just been having a debate. Nothing but love to share... except for all that hellfire and torture for the non-believers. Classic.

Beliefs causes no outward harm to anyone. Anyone who acts out these beliefs to bring it is wrong, no matter what you believe. Those who HATE gays and bring nothing but hatred toward them are wrong. Love the sinner, not the sin. Hey, I don't make the rules I follow.. I'm merely the messenger. We all suffer, we all have hurtful things done to us, but if it exists I'm not going to lie and say "oh, there's no murder or theft. Nah, everything is fine fam". No, I'm going to tell those who ask. 

 

Take it with a grain of salt if you'd like, but you'll remember all I've said, whenever it comes to pop in your head after this. Hopefully, not when it's too late

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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3 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I serve a jealous G-d. He wants us all to simply follow Him and do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves. If we choose not to love the one who created all, you're going against the creator and He'll do as he wishes. We brought sin and damnation into this world with out disobedience at the start, with Adam and Eve going against G-d's restriction. We ate from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thus... Damning our souls to suffering away from his mercy. 

 

With Yeshua's sacrifice, He's made it extremely easy to avoid perishing for our sins (past, present and future). I'd saying sacrificing G-d's only son for all of humanity is pretty loving

We didn't eat from the tree. How the fuck are we responsible for what some idiots did 6000 years ago? Why would such a loving God create us flawed so he can damn us to eternity in hell? Why wouldnt god live on earth to guide humanity, or why doesn't he perform miracles like healing all the sick or feeding Africa? It's because either he clearly doesn't love us or he simply doesn't exist. And I'd rather hold off on the mental gymnastics, so I'll take option 2.

- snip-

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3 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Suffering for an eternity for a finite number of sins that we've committed seems a bit harsh, especially when that suffering will be extreme.

Ah yes, but why worry about that at all if you don't have to? There is a way to be saved from this horrible fate, and it's for everyone.

 

Please understand that no one is here to change your mind about anything you believe right now. As a Messianic Jew, we're taught that our Lord is like a gentleman. He will never force Himself on you and yearns for us to love Him. If Yeshua wouldn't force ideology on His creation, why should I do this? I'm not! I'm planting a seed. Perhaps the seed will grow to something beautiful for each of you, or perhaps it will choke and wither. Spreading the good news is my only mission here :) Again, anyone who forces any sort of idea on you is wrong

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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12 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Oh piss off. There are millions of people who can barely afford food who worship your filthy god. It didn't help them, they still died, they still only lived a life of pain and strife.

you would do well to remember the warning that is quoted below

 

On 1/18/2017 at 2:15 PM, Slick said:

Please know that if anyone starts a fight this thread will be nuked from orbit.

 

You have been warned. 

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1 minute ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Ah yes, but why worry about that at all if you don't have to? There is a way to be saved from this horrible fate, and it's for everyone.

 

Please understand that no one is here to change your mind about anything you believe right now. As a Messianic Jew, we're taught that our Lord is like a gentleman. He will never force Himself on you and yearns for us to love Him. If Yeshua wouldn't force ideology on His creation, why should I do this? I'm not! I'm planting a seed. Perhaps the seed will grow to something beautiful for each of you, or perhaps it will choke and wither. Spreading the good news is my only mission here :) Again, anyone who forces any sort of idea on you is wrong

I will not worship a deity that think it's okay to torture people forever because they didn't accept him. Ending their lives permanently with no suffering involved would be a much nicer way of handling things, or for people who are already dead...no hope of being alive again.

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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3 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I serve a jealous G-d. He wants us all to simply follow Him and do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves. If we choose not to love the one who created all, you're going against the creator and He'll do as he wishes. We brought sin and damnation into this world with out disobedience at the start, with Adam and Eve going against G-d's restriction. We ate from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thus... Damning our souls to suffering away from his mercy. 

 

With Yeshua's sacrifice, He's made it extremely easy to avoid perishing for our sins (past, present and future). I'd saying sacrificing G-d's only son for all of humanity is pretty loving

So much to say here, I'll have to do it in bullet points.

  1. God is jealous and yet perfect and without sin? (Come on, you don't need my help with this one.)
  2. You for get that we did not eat from the tree and we did not bring sin and damnation into the world. Someone else did. How is it good to punish us for something someone else did?
  3. God didn't give a son, he loaned one, for about three days, after which he ascended into heaven to once again be a god.
  4. I don't think that torturing someone to relieve someone else of the sin you damned them with is loving. What that sounds like is insanity.

 

3 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Beliefs causes no outward harm to anyone. Anyone who acts out these beliefs to bring it is wrong, no matter what you believe. Those who HATE gays and bring nothing but hatred toward them are wrong. Love the sinner, not the sin. Hey, I don't make the rules I follow.. I'm merely the messenger. We all suffer, we all have hurtful things done to us, but if it exists I'm not going to lie and say "oh, there's no murder or theft. Nah, everything is fine fam". No, I'm going to tell those who ask. 

 

Take it with a grain of salt if you'd like, but you'll remember all I've said, whenever it comes to pop in your head after this. Hopefully, not when it's too late

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a false dichotomy, that a distinction without a difference. Both amount to considering homosexuals deviants and worthy of torture. (And you say I've been disrespectful!)

 

Don't worry, I've heard all of this many many times before. It was ridiculous then and it's only gotten worse.

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4 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

We didn't eat from the tree. How the fuck are we responsible for what some idiots did 6000 years ago? Why would such a loving God create us flawed so he can damn us to eternity in hell? Why wouldnt god live on earth to guide humanity, or why doesn't he perform miracles like healing all the sick or feeding Africa? It's because either he clearly doesn't love us or he simply doesn't exist. And I'd rather hold off on the mental gymnastics, so I'll take option 2.

Guilty by association, I'm afraid. It's unfair, but there's always a work-around with anything of this nature. If you were back in elementary school and get into trouble while you were hanging out with friends who were smoking. They're your friends, so you get into trouble too. Unfair, right? Sure is! What can you do to avoid the punishment afterward? Ask for forgiveness and be better than your friend. 

Aspiring IT technician... The AF is getting in the way. Poet and PC enthusiast (of a lower caliber, so-to say) :)

 

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