Uber drivers win key employment case against Uber.

[NinjaCode]

Uber was sentenced to pay minimum wage and vacation benefits to its employees. Can this be the end for uber current business model?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37802386

 

"The ruling by a London employment tribunal means drivers for the ride-hailing app will be entitled to holiday pay, paid rest breaks and the national minimum wage.

The GMB union described the decision as a "monumental victory" for some 40,000 drivers in England and Wales."

 

 

[Orangeator]

Yeah I am 100% against this ruling. It should be set up as, work-full time as uber driver with minimum wage or, work when you can and get commissions off the people you pick up. 

[MorganO]

but arent they self employed? and use UBER like a business would use paypal for transactions?

[The_Denks]

12 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Yeah I am 100% against this ruling. It should be set up as, work-full time as uber driver with minimum wage or, work when you can and get commissions off the people you pick up. 

Well at least you are lucky enough not to have to get 2 jobs at the same time.

Think before you speak

[CoffeeBlack]

12 minutes ago, UberGamerKing said:

Well at least you are lucky enough not to have to get 2 jobs at the same time.

Think before you speak

He didn't say a single thing about his work. How do you know that Orangator doesn't work two jobs? Your post makes no sense and wreaks of entitlement.

[Orangeator]

18 minutes ago, UberGamerKing said:

Well at least you are lucky enough not to have to get 2 jobs at the same time.

Think before you speak

I did think before I spoke... You should try it.

 

This ruling is completely unjust, if someone doesn't like Uber's business practice then don't work for them. It's really that simple. Don't work for a company then complain about how much they are paying you, if you don't like it get another job. Stop with this entitlement bullshit.

[NinjaCode]

37 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Yeah I am 100% against this ruling. It should be set up as, work-full time as uber driver with minimum wage or, work when you can and get commissions off the people you pick up. 

I'm 100% in favor of this ruling, as far as I understood, Uber doesn't pay the car maintenance or benefits or a legal wage. Every where I look at people complaining about uber is always the same thing, business model.

[Thunderpup]

i'm against it but then again Uber may operate differently in the UK than here in the States.

 

Here in the states Uber used to require it's drivers to meet a quota and couldn't turn down but so much work.  However they lost a case in the courts where now they can no longer do that.

 

This means people are free to work as much, or as little, as they want making it a very casual experience.

 

So based on how things are here in the states i don't see why Uber should have to provide any of these for people who only take a few fairs a week, and do it for some extra cash. 

 

To me Uber is nothing more than an App that facilitates the financial transaction and helps connects drivers with customers. 

[NinjaCode]

1 minute ago, Thunderpup said:

i'm against it but then again Uber may operate differently in the UK than here in the States.

 

Here in the states Uber used to require it's drivers to meet a quota and couldn't turn down but so much work.  However they lost a case in the courts where now they can no longer do that.

 

This means people are free to work as much, or as little, as they want making it a very casual experience.

 

So based on how things are here in the states i don't see why Uber should have to provide any of these for people who only take a few fairs a week, and do it for some extra cash. 

 

To me Uber is nothing more than an App that facilitates the financial transaction and helps connects drivers with customers. 

I don't think it can be very rewarding to work like for a few fares a week, they might wanna sell that image though.

[Thunderpup]

10 minutes ago, NinjaCode said:

I don't think it can be very rewarding to work like for a few fares a week, they might wanna sell that image though.

That depends entirely on what the driver wants out of the experience.  If they are only in it for some extra cash to supplement their income then yes a few fares a week might be sufficient.  

 

If they are looking at doing it in lieu of working full time elsewhere then no it isn't unless they are super long fares each.  

 

The few uber drivers i've interacted with have all been in the first group where they had a regular job, but did the uber thing to make extra money.  Most of them were using the money they made to cover the payments on a new car.

[NinjaCode]

10 minutes ago, Thunderpup said:

That depends entirely on what the driver wants out of the experience.  If they are only in it for some extra cash to supplement their income then yes a few fares a week might be sufficient.  

 

If they are looking at doing it in lieu of working full time elsewhere then no it isn't unless they are super long fares each.  

 

The few uber drivers i've interacted with have all been in the first group where they had a regular job, but did the uber thing to make extra money.  Most of them were using the money they made to cover the payments on a new car.

thanks for your clarification on this matter

[Thunderpup]

1 minute ago, NinjaCode said:

thanks for your clarification on this matter

You're welcome.

 

For the record if Uber operated like regular cab companies do, at least here in the states, then my opinion would be different.  Cause regular cab companies screw their drivers over all the time. 

[NinjaCode]

1 minute ago, Thunderpup said:

You're welcome.

 

For the record if Uber operated like regular cab companies do, at least here in the states, then my opinion would be different.  Cause regular cab companies screw their drivers over all the time. 

Here cab companies have to pay minimum wage, full benefits, that why cab drivers say uber isn't playing by the same rules, because they don't pay nothing.

[Thunderpup]

Here Cab companies aren't required to do that.

 

Here cab drivers essentially are borrowing, for a fee, the cab company's vehicle.  The cab company does maintenance on their vehicles, and they provide dispatching service to help connect drivers with customers. 

 

However you aren't really a direct employee of the company, and you can lose money if you don't make enough in fares to cover the fee for borrowing the vehicle which means you would be paying out of pocket.  

 

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, Orangeator said:

This ruling is completely unjust, if someone doesn't like Uber's business practice then don't work for them. It's really that simple. Don't work for a company then complain about how much they are paying you, if you don't like it get another job. Stop with this entitlement bullshit.

It's not that simple. Uber does thread a fine line in order to fit its business model in different legal environments as its most beneficial for them, and that can put them on the verge of "law fraud" (I'm making it up, I don't know the English technical term for when you try to falsely present things to fit in a different law than they should). Companies don't have the right to misrepresent how they operate, or to simultaneously be considered as a service providers or intermediaries between users and service providers, depending on which matter is being discussed.

 

Besides that: while I'm not saying it is clear that Uber is infringing this particular law, the general statement "don't work for a company  and then complain" shows very little understanding of how legal matters work. In particular: individual contracts can't enable you to break the law. Meaning, if you and me write a contract in which we state you will do something illegal, you are still accountable for doing it, because, well, individuals can't just authorize other individuals to break the law 

On top of this, we can agree on perfectly legal conditions, and once I'm working you may engage in practices which are not legal. Again, the answer is not "just quit": if you break the law, you will answer for that, whether I quit or not.

[dtaflorida]

I love cases like this. Not because of justice for employees or anything, rather because it spurs automation/tech.

SELF DRIVING CARS! BRING IT UBER!

 

From McDonalds flipping burgers to Foxconn making phones, these small short term wins for the people are big long term wins for tech. Startup culture is great, they can start a business and claim to have made jobs, because they never had to start with a large labor force. I'm waitin for the next Uber that starts off with NO drivers.

 

I recall a quote I heard on NPR concerning minimum wage, companies "... won't pay $20/hr for a person that only has $8/hr skills..."

[Citadelen]

I am 100% in favour of this ruling, Uber shouldn't get a free pass in abusing workers rights or underpaying them.

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, Citadelen said:

I am 100% in favour of this ruling, Uber shouldn't get a free pass in abusing workers rights or underpaying them.

Then don't work for them, simple. They are not forcing you to work for them. 

[tlink]

11 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Then don't work for them, simple. They are not forcing you to work for them. 

just because you can say its simple doesn't make it simple. your comment is like saying that depression is easy to overcome. just don't feel sad.

[elkenrod]

What is the advantage of working with Uber vs a traditional cab company?  I think the answers to much confusion lies there.

[tlink]

some key reasons from this case:

 

Quote

summary of the key reasons:

Uber has sole and absolute discretion to accept or decline bookings

Uber interviews and recruits drivers

Uber controls key information – passenger contact details and destination in particular. Drivers can’t access such information and don't even know where they are going until the trip starts.

Uber requires drivers to accept trips assigned to them

Uber sets the default route

Uber fixes the fare and drivers can’t negotiate a higher fare or other terms with passengers (as an independent contractor would be able to)

Uber imposes fixed conditions such as the type of vehicle that drivers must use and how drivers do their work

Uber subjects drivers to performance management and disciplinary procedures

Uber determines issues such as rebates without involving the driver

The discontinued guaranteed earnings scheme (fixed pay being a characteristic of employees)

Uber takes on risk of loss such as in the case of fraudulent passengers

Uber (not the drivers) handles complaints by passengers, including complaints about drivers

Uber can amend the drivers’ terms unilaterally

Forbidding drivers from contacting passengers after rides (someone running a business would normally be able to contact his clients)

Using terms like "on-duty" and "off-duty" and referring to "our drivers" and "our vehicles"

 

[Orangeator]

6 minutes ago, tlink said:

just because you can say its simple doesn't make it simple. your comment is like saying that depression is easy to overcome. just don't feel sad.

No that is a sucky ass analogy. Depression is a mental illness that is completely uncontrollable. Uber is a company offer a said cut for every passenger picked up, you approach them and say deal. Then you later think, "hey I am not getting paid enough"... So you go after Uber for more money. That is bullshit. If you are unhappy with the wage leave. There are plenty others that would be more than happy to take your place.

 

Edit: (It's called capitalism)

[SansVarnic]

8 minutes ago, tlink said:

just because you can say its simple doesn't make it simple. your comment is like saying that depression is easy to overcome. just don't feel sad.

It is very simple you either work for them or your don't...

Uber's business model is very straight forward, they are not a cab company, they are a facilitator of the transaction and dispatch portion of a Self employed position everything else is on the person doing the driving using their own car. This was all there in the agreement one signs to use Uber's service to play cab driver on the side. 

This ruling is absolutely garbage and reeks of political positioning.

[NinjaCode]

4 minutes ago, tlink said:

some key reasons from this case:

 

 

Thank you for this summary

[Orangeator]

3 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

It is very simple you either work for them or your don't...

Uber's business model is very straight forward, they are not a cab company, they are a facilitator of the transaction and dispatch portion of a Self employed position everything else is on the person doing the driving using their own car. This was all there in the agreement one signs to use Uber's service to play cab driver on the side. 

This ruling is absolutely garbage and reeks of political positioning.

Thank you! Somebody on here with an actual functioning mind.