Internet of Things

[Sir Asvald]

Hello guys. I'm currently doing a project on the Internet of Things and I want to know what your idea is of having smart appliances in your house that are connected to the internet?

 

What worries you when you think of Internet of Things?

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

[potatoproduction]

well obviously privacy

 

You can talk about how all your info can be shared to advertising agency through your ISP or the company that made the device selling the info to ad organizations that can get leaked and release all your persnol info

[Mira Yurizaki]

Security. Last weekend's DDoS attack was due to a ton (probably literally) of insecure IoT devices.

[Sir Asvald]

3 minutes ago, potatoproduction said:

well obviously privacy

Okay. Thanks.  

 

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Security. Last weekend's DDoS attack was due to a ton of insecure IoT devices.

Yeah, I've read about it. It's going to help with my project.  

 

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, potatoproduction said:

well obviously privacy

 

You can talk about how all your info can be shared to advertising agency through your ISP or the company that made the device selling the info to ad organizations that can get leaked and release all your persnol info

That's called paranoia.

There is no reason why an appliance has any personal information.

Do you really think your fridge cares about your personal information?

[PenPoint]

By the way, here is a good image that you can use :

 

 

I used this image when I had an IoT project just like what you are doing

[Lehti]

@potatoproduction has a point, though. A third party shouldn't be able to have access to, use or resell personal information about its users. We probably need some kind of written agreement between the two parties to regulate how that data must be handled. I propose we call them "contracts" or "Terms of Service".

[potatoproduction]

5 minutes ago, Enderman said:

That's called paranoia.

There is no reason why an appliance has any personal information.

Do you really think your fridge cares about your personal information?

You are right in some senses but there are still very possible risks

 

.For example let's say you have a nest security camera or a baby monitor or anything else that has a camera that's always running and then a hacker or isp wants to access your camera so they hack /intercept your data stream and then they can see what is going on at your house.

 

Btw this acculy happend here is an article:

http://sfglobe.com/2016/01/06/stranger-hacks-familys-baby-monitor-and-talks-to-child-at-night/

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Lehti said:

@potatoproduction has a point, though. A third party shouldn't be able to have access to, use or resell personal information about its users. We probably need some kind of written agreement between the two parties to regulate how that data must be handled. I propose we call them "contracts" or "Terms of Service".

There are terms of service for everything already.

Maybe if you even bothered to READ it you would notice that you are giving permission to the company to take telemetry and data on certain things.

[Sir Asvald]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

That's called paranoia.

There is no reason why an appliance has any personal information.

Do you really think your fridge cares about your personal information?

Well, for one it's connected to the internet, It will know your shopping patterns. 

 

For example this fridge from Samsung:

 

 

http://www.samsung.com/us/explore/family-hub-refrigerator/

[Lehti]

Just now, Enderman said:

There are terms of service for everything already.

Maybe if you even bothered to READ it you would notice that you are giving permission to the company to take telemetry and data on certain things.

I know. I just find it funny that people complain about privacy, do not bother to read the ToS but still use those same services.

 

2 minutes ago, potatoproduction said:

You are right in some senses but there are still very possible risks

 

.For example let's say you have a nest security camera or a baby monitor or anything else that has a camera that's always running and then a hacker or isp wants to access your camera so they hack /intercept your data stream and then they can see what is going on at your house.

 

Btw this acculy happend here is an article:

http://sfglobe.com/2016/01/06/stranger-hacks-familys-baby-monitor-and-talks-to-child-at-night/

That's a security concern that affects privacy, not a privacy issue with IoT per se. In case your ISP accesses your camera for reason different than those outlined in the agreement you signed/agreed to/whatever and you have proof, you can take them to court.

[Sir Asvald]

8 minutes ago, PenPoint said:

By the way, here is a good image that you can use :

 

 

 

I used this image when I had an IoT project just like what you are doing

Thanks for it mate.  

[79wjd]

16 minutes ago, Enderman said:

That's called paranoia.

There is no reason why an appliance has any personal information.

Do you really think your fridge cares about your personal information?

The food you buy will affect your healthcare costs/taxes if you buy unhealthy foods. 

 

I don't think it's exactly a likely scenario, but I could see it happening in places where the government has complete control and can basically do whatever they want (although, arguably at that point you should have bigger concerns anyway).

[xephoneration]

8 minutes ago, Enderman said:

That's called paranoia.

There is no reason why an appliance has any personal information.

Do you really think your fridge cares about your personal information?

 

Smart fridges are a thing. And that goes to say more and more about smart devices are getting more advanced. For instance a smart fridge does require your information, to the extent of what you like to eat, keep stock of things, and ect..  someone could access that information and use it against you in a way. 

 

Also to add the way you used care was improper implying its an agent that is on our moral society.. which to be extremely frank a fridge is not... thus nulling your "loaded" question...

 

If anything this is going to be a long winded conversation about the ethics of tech. it will be amusing. 

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The food you buy will affect your healthcare costs/taxes if you buy unhealthy foods. 

 

I don't think it's exactly a likely scenario, but I could see it happening in places where the government has complete control and can basically do whatever they want (although, arguably at that point you should have bigger concerns anyway).

 

1 minute ago, xephoneration said:

 

Smart fridges are a thing. And that goes to say more and more about smart devices are getting more advanced. For instance a smart fridge does require your information, to the extent of what you like to eat, keep stock of things, and ect..  someone could access that information and use it against you in a way. 

 

Also to add the way you used care was improper implying its an agent that is on our moral society.. which to be extremely frank a fridge is not... thus nulling your "loaded" question...

 

If anything this is going to be a long winded conversation about the ethics of tech. it will be amusing. 

 

In that case you can either read the TOS and NOT buy the fridge, or read the TOS and buy the fridge anyway.

It's not like you don't have a choice....

 

[79wjd]

Just now, Enderman said:

 

 

In that case you can either read the TOS and NOT buy the fridge, or read the TOS and buy the fridge anyway.

It's not like you don't have a choice....

 

Of course, but a company doesn't have to be fully honest in their TOS (they might get sued, but that could happen years later -- at which point it's too late). And I would expect most smart fridges (that are aware of the contents inside) will share that data for "market research" reasons. So you might be okay with that, but that doesn't mean the government/your healthcare provider won't get access to it.  Again, I'm obviously describing an extreme and unlikely scenario. 

[xephoneration]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

 

 

In that case you can either read the TOS and NOT buy the fridge, or read the TOS and buy the fridge anyway.

It's not like you don't have a choice....

 

or not be connected to the internet at all? you can always do otherwise....

[Sir Asvald]

Alright, What would you do. To combat your privacy?

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Abdul201588 said:

Alright, What would you do. To combat your privacy?

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Of course, but a company doesn't have to be fully honest in their TOS (they might get sued, but that could happen years later -- at which point it's too late). And I would expect most smart fridges (that are aware of the contents inside) will share that data for "market research" reasons. So you might be okay with that, but that doesn't mean the government/your healthcare provider won't get access to it.  Again, I'm obviously describing an extreme and unlikely scenario. 

The TOS always contains either vague or worst case wording.

If they say they reserve the right to use any data collected, you can assume it's being given to all kinds of corporations.

If you don't want that, then just don't use a IOT connected appliance.

 

Just now, xephoneration said:

or not be connected to the internet at all? you can always do otherwise....

That too, but then most of the "smart fridge" functionality is gone.

[Sir Asvald]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I get it. What about the non-tech consumer? Who doesn't know. Come on. They are a lot. 

[79wjd]

Just now, Enderman said:

If you don't want that, then just don't use a IOT connected appliance.

 

That too, but then most of the "smart fridge" functionality is gone.

That's not what I'm arguing about. That's obviously a good solution. 

 

I'm referring to your initial comment: 

26 minutes ago, Enderman said:

There is no reason why an appliance has any personal information.

Do you really think your fridge cares about your personal information?

To which the answer is, yes -- the fridge itself won't care, but the company behind it will. 

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Abdul201588 said:

I get it. What about the non-tech consumer? Who doesn't know. Come on. They are a lot. 

The answer is that you shouldn't expect privacy. For example, any email you send through a third part provider is easily accessible after 180 days of not being touched. In digital law there is a concept of reasonable expectation of privacy -- so, if you're willing to store personal emails on a third party server, then obviously you don't have a high expectation of privacy (since you're entrusting it to someone else). The same idea applies here. By using an IoT product and agreeing to the TOS you agree to the reduced expectation of privacy. So there really isn't much you can do other than not use IoT devices (or obfuscate their functionality by wrapping your products in a bag so it can't be seen by the fridge).

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

That's not what I'm arguing about. That's obviously a good solution. 

 

I'm referring to your initial comment: 

To which the answer is, yes -- the fridge itself won't care, but the company behind it will. 

It's called big data.

They don't care about you. They care about the mass collection of telemetry and statistics.

The thing on the other end is literally a bunch of servers that store and calculate stuff based on the data of billions of people.

There is no human that will go look at what personal information is yours.

Only a machine does, and it does not care about who you are.

 

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Since it's a topic on IoT and I'm too lazy to find another one, here's my input on IoT: I don't care for it. In the sense that I want to minimize the number of internet connected things in my home. Anything also controlling aspects of my home, like environmental or whatnot, should not be on the internet. Sure it's nice if Nest sends me a notification about something, but if it's smarter than the average programmable thermostat, then I should have to set it and not worry about it. It should not have to send me things.

 

Of course IoT devices don't mean things like smart home stuff, but the idea of being connected, despite my love of technology and such, doesn't appeal to me. As the old folks would say, we were fine without these things.