Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[alphaproject]

I'm not a fan of texture pop ins. Rage did a nice job of that.

[KenjiD5]

1 hour ago, alphaproject said:

I'm not a fan of texture pop ins. Rage did a nice job of that.

i never heard of this game rage but when i am searching for pop ins it always there  now i know it for it is problems

 

Just a little survey, guys what bother you the most?

 

O - Pixelated Shadow

O - Jagged Anti Aliasing

O - Pixelated Reflection

O - Low Draw Distance

O - Pop ins

O - Low Shadow Distance

O - Others 

 

[KenjiD5]

this is the problem we are getting all along 

http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/intermediate-tutorials/tutorial-16-shadow-mapping/#Result___Shadow_acne

 

view it and you can see our problem is enlisted there... (except for aa,lod others)

 

thing is we must fix that..

 

i realize that open gl has something to do with some parts of the pc (software) like regedit etc..

 

in regedit after opening all the files there for hours i found that they all have different kind of numbers.. some were 0,some were 1 and some were 100+.. one thing that took my mind is the AA ZOOM (forgot what it is called)  this thing make me think that this force us to zoom edges on all things that will cause jaggies.. i mean if it is not zoomed we wont have those jagged edges.. im afraid to set it to 0 because it might flop with my pc anyway now we have something mysterious

 

tell me if i need to put it to 0 or it has nothing to do with zoom edges (jagged egdes)

[KenjiD5]

hello are you guys still alive?? hmm i have nothing to say so...

[wassimal01]

I have a friend who has the same problem as us, he has to buy a 4K monitor ( asus pg348q + gtx 1080 ) the problem is solved for him,the (Pixelated Shadows Texture Pop Ins Low Draw Distance in all games) are missing in games, I think it is the only solution

[App4that]

Pop ins and low shadow distance drive me insane, or more insane. 

 

BTW, noticed in a few games that msaa is messed up, drop to FXAA and it's all good. Just passing that along. 

[KenjiD5]

6 hours ago, wassimal01 said:

I have a friend who has the same problem as us, he has to buy a 4K monitor ( asus pg348q + gtx 1080 ) the problem is solved for him,the (Pixelated Shadows Texture Pop Ins Low Draw Distance in all games) are missing in games, I think it is the only solution

yes that would really remove those issue.. by getting 4k monitor its wide huge and big and have more pixel density than other resolutions.. looking at pixelated shadows in 4k can reduce the jaggies of the shadows and make it look like it a normal shadow but still jagged shadows.. about the texture pop in and low draw distance .. i dont know maybe the pixel density have something to do with this but anyway if that solve his problem then i am going to buy a 4k monitor now and then buy gtx 1080 and i7 soon.. i hope what you said will work because this will reduce my fps so much so...

[FPS-Russia]

I don't see this problem with RX 480. I play at 2560x1440.

[FPS-Russia]

On 06/08/2016 at 9:26 AM, KenjiD5 said:

Hello. we have a topic before like this and we are talking about the problems (already written in the title) and we met some guys who is just pure nonsense and keep talking to us like we are dumbs and i am the reason why the topic is closed.. now im so sorry and now i wont swear anymore but please let start all over again @ElijahDar @SpeedUp10 @Karalum  @SamStrecker and many other more and for the new guys who just visited this topic recently.. this is the problem we are talking about 

 

 

luckily we have solutions that might work so come and join us if you have these problems..we are going to help you

It is 2016? why you game on 480P and low setting?

[KenjiD5]

3 minutes ago, FPS-Russia said:

It is 2016? why you game on 480P and low setting?

you sure it is 480p?? im using 1366x768p and also ultra settings.. seeking for attention boy?

[FPS-Russia]

On 06/08/2016 at 8:41 PM, SpeedUp10 said:

Enjoy : 

 

This is good video it look like you use no AA?

[FPS-Russia]

Just now, KenjiD5 said:

you sure it is 480p?? im using 1366x768p and also ultra settings.. seeking for attention boy?

Sorry for not have correct resolution that you play on.

I see nothing wrong with the 2009 game you picture.

[KenjiD5]

17 hours ago, FPS-Russia said:

This is good video it look like you use no AA?

have you ever played mw2 or atleast is it installed in your pc?

 

play the mission "just like old times" and take a picture of that part of the mission and be sure to prone and look at the shadows and send us the picture and you can see that the shadow of yours and the shadow of our broken pc is different

[xAcid9]

Aliasing and shadow can't be unseen, max out in game with 4xMSAA.

Forcing thru NCP didn't work nor did thru NvInspector.. not sure why. I also tried in-game 8xMSAA but didn't improve the shadow quality at all.
 

I doubt dev gimped the game graphic because i don't see this type of poor shadow before.

[KenjiD5]

1 minute ago, xAcid9 said:

Aliasing and shadow can't be unseen, max out in game with 4xMSAA.

Forcing thru NCP didn't work nor did thru NvInspector.. not sure why. I also tried in-game 8xMSAA but didn't improve the shadow quality at all.
 

I doubt dev gimped the game graphic because i don't see this type of poor shadow before.

its funny how the gamers call this and some other racing games good.. they even say this have a good graphics while we cant see the good graphics in these games.. what is your gpu?? you can upgrade your monitor to 1440p or 4k to have a better image quality and no aliasing but that depends on your gpu..

[KenjiD5]

so here is the list of pretty looking games even if this problem exists:

 

Witcher 3

GTA V 

Dark Souls 3 (it look so bad and everything is jagged but once you finish the game you get use to it)

Fallout 4 (only the white lines and low shadow distance is noticable in this game and also z-fighting)

Shadow of mordor (despite that is doesnt have any anti aliasing option it still look good and look cool)

MGSV (beware jagged lines ahead be quiet. the jagged lines are normal cause it is just fxaa but expect more jagged lines)

Asssasins Creed 4 (this is one of the first games i notice this problem but it still look good dont worry)

DOOM 4 (the game was so cool and jaggies are hard to found.. definitely goty)

Rise of the tomb raider (it look so bad in vegetations but its okay)

 

 

that's all i know.. good day everyone and i hope we can just throw our broken pc away and play with normal pc

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xAcid9]

9 hours ago, KenjiD5 said:

its funny how the gamers call this and some other racing games good.. they even say this have a good graphics while we cant see the good graphics in these games.. what is your gpu?? you can upgrade your monitor to 1440p or 4k to have a better image quality and no aliasing but that depends on your gpu..

Gameplay > Graphic, one of the best sim racing game along side rFactor2/rFactor/iRacing imo. Graphic is pretty good especially with mods. 

 

 

 

1440p monitor won't improve/fix it and it's not worth to go 4k right now for me. I've improved the jaggies/shadow by using 8xSparseGrid SSAA with latest NvInspector but shadow lod/distance is still too close and the transition is pretty harsh compare to my 290x shadow quality where transition is pretty subtle/smooth.

 

I checked my older videos of AC and i noticed the shadow and jaggies is like that in some tracks, i guess i didn't notice that before because too busy racing/practicing so this is not something that suddenly appear after i changed graphic card. 

[KenjiD5]

2 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Gameplay > Graphic, one of the best sim racing game along side rFactor2/rFactor/iRacing imo. Graphic is pretty good especially with mods. 

 

 

 

1440p monitor won't improve/fix it and it's not worth to go 4k right now for me. I've improved the jaggies/shadow by using 8xSparseGrid SSAA with latest NvInspector but shadow lod/distance is still too close and the transition is pretty harsh compare to my 290x shadow quality where transition is pretty subtle/smooth.

 

I checked my older videos of AC and i noticed the shadow and jaggies is like that in some tracks, i guess i didn't notice that before because too busy racing/practicing so this is not something that suddenly appear after i changed graphic card. 

who's picture is that? yours?

 

anyway yeah i agree 1440p wont do anything but just reduce it ..

 

the thing is youtube player is like controlled by our pc.. what we see in our games we can see it on youtube videos too.. ven real life videos have jaggies.. try to watch some gameplay video but not youtube player more like ign player or anything like that but not the one youtube use

[xAcid9]

Yeah mine, i don't understand the last part about Youtube player.

[KenjiD5]

24 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Yeah mine, i don't understand the last part about Youtube player.

sorry i am tired that time i type that that's why it was kinda idk...  i mean go watch some gameplay vids but not on youtube.. go to ign and watch some of they're gameplay they are not using youtube player they are using some kind of different player and then make a new tab watch ign youtube video of that video you are watching.. compare them both.. you see aliasing on youtube while on the ign website you dont..

[xAcid9]

16 hours ago, KenjiD5 said:

sorry i am tired that time i type that that's why it was kinda idk...  i mean go watch some gameplay vids but not on youtube.. go to ign and watch some of they're gameplay they are not using youtube player they are using some kind of different player and then make a new tab watch ign youtube video of that video you are watching.. compare them both.. you see aliasing on youtube while on the ign website you dont..

No i compared them with my unedited source.

[KenjiD5]

7 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

No i compared them with my unedited source.

okay.. seems like we are the only people talking here then..

[Zemzemma]

On 6-8-2016 at 10:49 PM, ElijahDar said:

While you guys been testing games and making videos and forcibly proving/denying the problem to each other, Me and @SpeedUp10  were actually investigating the issue. Please stop testing games and making videos and start researching. For once we actually know what the problem is however the solution or what causing it is unknown.

 

First of all, Please Please and Please stop making general names for this problem. "Texture Flickering" or "Jagged Edges" will only attract people whose problem can be fixed by reinstalling driver or windows or people who wanna prove to us nothing is wrong. 

 

So here is the investigation:

We did a bit of research here and there and found out that this problem is something that is happening once there is a camera motion. meaning that a fixed frame is rendering perfectly. therefore we concluded that this is because of some sort of calculation being run in GPU and is being messed with and it takes a few seconds to re-adjust. After a bit of more researching and cross-solving, we drew some connection to LoD Bias. Now LoD bias is a series of calculations that aid the GPU in rendering each object/texture specific to their location in relation to player. The values being yielded by theses calculation also aids the GPU in draw distance and shadow quality (Depending on Shader being used by the engine). Now the APIs (DirectX, OpenGL, VulkanRT) are responsible for this. So I went after articles written by shader programmers wo use these APIs to specifically find the problem since blaming LoD Bias is again too general (LoD bias has alot of more calculations). So we came to this conclusion that this is actually a really common problem in shader programming and thats why simply searching "Texture Flickering" on google wont get you to this. We tried alot of things, even went for RF Noise or radio interference or testing game enigine based LoD bias. Also a clue that helped was that this is all about shadows. this may also come as bit of shock but shadows are what we should blame the whole thing on, and you maybe say that im crazy why should I blame shadows on jagged edges or popping but bare with me im going to prove why.

 

So guys, to shorten this up, the problem is not one but 3:

 

1. Shadow Acne (Main one)

Another common artifact found in shadow mapping is shadow acne, or erroneous self-shadowing.  This generally occurs when the texel depth in light space and the texel depth in view space are so close that floating point errors incorrectly cause the depth test to fail. There are a few ways to address this issue.  It’s so prevalent, that most graphics APIs provide a means to instantiate a rasterizer state that includes both a depth bias and a slope-scaled depth bias.  Essentially, during shadow map creation, these values are used in combination to offset the current value by a certain amount and push it out of the range where floating point inaccuracies would cause inaccurate comparisons.  One must be careful when setting these bias values.  Too high of a value can cause the next issue to be discussed, peter panning, while too low of a value will still let acne artifacts creep back.

 

2. Peter Panning

It’s frustrating when introducing a fix for one thing breaks something else.  That’s exactly what we can potentially end up with when we use depth biases for shadow maps.  Peter Panning is caused by offsetting the depth values in light space too much.  The result is that the shadow becomes detached from the object casting it. Sometimes the depth bias is so large that it pushes the shadow away from the caster, causing them to appear as though they could be floating. 

 

3. Perspective Aliasing

These types of artifacts are perhaps the simplest to alleviate.  Stair-like artifacts outlining the projected shadows are generally caused by the resolution of the shadow map being too low. Unfortunately, increasing the resolution will only get us so far.  Even at high resolutions, if the viewer is close enough to the receiving surface, tiny stair-like artifacts will still be noticeable along the edges of projected shadows.  The solution to this is to use a technique called percentage closer filtering (PCF).  Instead of sampling at one location, this algorithm samples several points around the initial location, weighs the results that are shadowed versus non-shadowed, and creates soft edges for the result. 

 

TL;DR Stop looking for proofs and videos and game problems and start looking for a fix for Shadow Acne. Trust me when I say this. You fix Shadow Acne your problems will be solved forever. How to fix it? that's the million dollar question.

Damn bro, you really did your research

[xAcid9]

1 hour ago, KenjiD5 said:

okay.. seems like we are the only people talking here then..

Everyone else busy playing games i guess.

[KenjiD5]

8 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Everyone else busy playing games i guess.

okay then what game are you playing right now?? im going to repeat witcher 3 all over again while waiting for my dlcs to be downloaded...