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Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

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WkdPaul
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Posted

Well yes, this seems to be software related, but to be honest, how can this happen on consoles too? changing all the pc components, with a completely different rig and still the same? if it's software related, this should affect  A LOT of people, and this problem has been known for years, so, why the developers haven't fixed it yet?

We already know that the problem is something messing up with the 3D rendering API's, but still don't know what causes that in the first place.

When I sent my pc to fix it, they replaced my gpu and they told me everything worked correctly but when I tested in my house, surprise! besides, they have replaced 2 gpu's so, once it's ''infected'' doesn't matter whatever you change on your PC it will happen everytime.

Also I did notice that the backplate of the gpu was electrified even with the PSU switched off, so I did measurements on the wall sockets, And I got like 4-6 Volts between the neutral and ground, and one of the sockets has the ground wire cutted and it's oscillating between 50-70 Volts, not normal at all, so I still think it might be an electrical problem.

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Posted
15 hours ago, LexLoneWolf said:

Well yes, this seems to be software related, but to be honest, how can this happen on consoles too? changing all the pc components, with a completely different rig and still the same? if it's software related, this should affect  A LOT of people, and this problem has been known for years, so, why the developers haven't fixed it yet?

We already know that the problem is something messing up with the 3D rendering API's, but still don't know what causes that in the first place.

When I sent my pc to fix it, they replaced my gpu and they told me everything worked correctly but when I tested in my house, surprise! besides, they have replaced 2 gpu's so, once it's ''infected'' doesn't matter whatever you change on you PC it will happen everytime.

Also I did notice that the backplate of the gpu was electrified even with the PSU switched off, so I did measurements on the wall sockets, And I got like 4-6 Volts between the neutral and ground, and one of the sockets has the ground wire cutted and it's oscillating between 50-70 Volts, not normal at all, so I still think it might be an electrical problem.

I agree with you but the problem happened to me after the changing my GPU and it didn't exist before (sorry for my bad english).

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Posted

Guys , i literally tried everything u can imagine.  

 

Two times i could fixed everything  temporarily.

 

1: I had put my friends AMD GPU in my PC(keep in mind, i never had a amd gpu in my pc before, so think thats why it fixed it temporarily), deinstallled driver, installed amd driver, restart, started CS GO and boom fixed like everything. Played 10min beatiful gameplay, i thought i fixed it , closed that game, and my friends brother came in and wanted to see the difference, so i started  Cs go again and booom out of nowhere the issue is back. Like 2min before it was fixed and then back as i restarted the game.

 

 

2. I bought a completly new PC , nothing from old PC. Installed OS/drivers, installed my Games, and everything were fixed. Everything. So i was happy played some hours . Then i wanted to disable some power saving settings in BIOS, like many people do.

So what happened right after i started my PC , bluescreen, and with that my Monitor HZ locked fromself from 144hz to 60hz. Then i restarted my PC and it didnt wanted to boot up, i realized that just 2 ram slots died with that.  Switched Ram slots , started my PC , i was complelty mindfucked how this even could happened. Well i was just like pls my games still run normal. Started the first game and boom same issue back :)

 

So there is a possibility that electricy could play a role. But still i dont know.

 

All i can say is that a new PC fixed the issue for me till i fked something up in the bios.

 

Beside this all, i exchanged every component more than twice without a single difference.

 

Issue started last summer after reinstalled OS .

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Posted

This is not electrical.

Try this:

Play Doom or Spore, or any OpenGL only game, and see if you have trouble. I have NO trouble on those games.

Try DX12 Games, the fact is you have near 0 trouble too.


Try any dx 9-11 game or any game that share directx API with another, even if you can choose = Big trouble.
 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, lordante said:

This is not electrical.

Try this:

Play Doom or Spore, or any OpenGL only game, and see if you have trouble. I have NO trouble on those games.

Try DX12 Games, the fact is you have near 0 trouble too.


Try any dx 9-11 game or any game that share directx API with another, even if you can choose = Big trouble.
  

I have the problem on my ps3 and it seems to me that it doesn't use directx
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Posted
Quote

 

The problem is, the PlayStation 3 doesn’t USE OpenGL, it uses Sony’s own PSGL (which might be based on OpenGL ES 1.0, but has a LOT of hardware-specific extensions, since OpenGL ES 1.0 doesn’t even offer programmable shaders or anything… Ironically enough PSGL is based on Cg, which was developed by nVidia and Microsoft, and is closely related to Direct3D’s HLSL, but NOT OpenGL’s GLSL). And in fact, many games don’t even use PSGL all that much, but use the lower-level LibGCM or go down to the bare metal themselves (the advantage of a console: hardware is fixed).

Yes, there are OpenGL wrappers available for the PlayStation 3, but their performance is considerably worse than PSGL, because OpenGL isn’t suited to the PS3’s hardware very well (just like how you can run linux on it, but the Cell is very much underused by linux applications, and you end up with a very slow system, with the exception of custom PS3 applications).

 

So, may be not DirectX, but using direct shader... Cool it goes to what i said before :(

Edit:

 

Quote

SONY OFFICIALLY revealed that its RSX graphic part will be kind of Shader Model 3.0 compliant. You cannot actually talk about Shader Model 3.0 if you don't talk Windows DirectX but Shader model 3 has become the best way to describe how programmable a core really is.

Developers asked about Shader Model 3.0 support and company responded. It's interesting that the company is embracing Nvidia's failed CG marchitecture as its standard shading language.

On the PC, Nvidia decided to kill its CG shading language concept and to make some space for HLSL(Higher Level Shader Language).

Sony didn’t have any other choice as HLSL was the only alternative. If you talk Playstation 3 you should talk about CG as this is going to be the only way to do shading for this upcoming console.

The more i search, the more i found some shader implicated in this...

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Posted

I'm starting to think this is a really common problem since I've been watching a lot of videos of the games I usually play, and I see the low shadow resolution there too.
I don't know you guys, but I'm gonna stop bothering about this problem, maybe this happens with specific architectures running Dx 9-11 with Open GL(almost every game uses both API's) and  the way the games are optimized

it doesn't happen in Dx12 or Vulkan or at least I didn't notice yet, all the recent games look a lot better though, maybe one day with drivers or new OS's they fix it but, for now there's not much we can do.
 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Welcome me warmly guys, i'm another sufferer.

Read through all this topic, and i'm gonna read all 100+ pages of nvidia topic aswell.

Thanks for all the guys that did their research. I am however rather sad with the fact that there is no 100% solution and even brand new pc is never freed from issues.

Guess i just should stop playing games.

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Posted
On 31/3/2017 at 9:33 PM, Skytoucher said:

Welcome me warmly guys, i'm another sufferer.

Read through all this topic, and i'm gonna read all 100+ pages of nvidia topic aswell.

Thanks for all the guys that did their research. I am however rather sad with the fact that there is no 100% solution and even brand new pc is never freed from issues.

Guess i just should stop playing games.

Don't worry, you'll get used to it after a good 5-6 months and at least start enjoying games again. There will be times when you get pissed at it again when you fire up a game where the problem is particularly marked... but you learn to mostly ignore it on most games with the right tweaks and settings.

Look at the bright side... the day we finally get rid of it you'll be super happy again like a toddler on christmas morning. Even though, seeing where we stand  right now, we probably won't resolve it as much as "surpass" it. What i mean is that i don't think it'll ever be resolved, but with new technologies it will prolly eventually become irrelevant and not feature at all... DX12 games already seem to be almost uneffected by this horrific issue. Prolly when whatever causes this stops featuring in or being used by new software we'll stop suffering as well.

Before that happens... remember, 4k dsr and TXAA are your best pals. And if you ever need to move to a new hosue sell everything and buy everything from scratch, and i mean everything. TVs, pcs, consoles etc.etc. That might do the trick.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with you Mark, I think this is an electrical problem but I measured the voltages of my outlets with a volmeter and the values displayed are correct. I will never but a nvidia graphics card in the future, it's certain. (sorry for my bad english).

Edited by clement1012
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Posted

ITT: People discover common visual artifacts caused by pixels and specular highlighting.

 

4K alleviates this significantly due to the much higher pixel count, however you can never completely be free of everything.  Some games even have pre-configured shadow resolutions that can become very pixellated regardless of your game resolution.

 

The only way to truly make most of this stuff go away is to blur the image with temporal AA, MSAA or running the game in higher resolution. (Either through downscaling, supersampling or simply running 4K native or higher.)  Even a native 4K image without any blurring will display these artifacts, unless the DPI is extremely high. (24 inch monitor or lower.)

 

 

 

4K // R5 3600 // RTX2080Ti

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Posted

That's false.

I have two screen, one is 21". Got same crap.

4K on the 27" with VSR, stil crapy, but less (but the worst infected games still are unplayable, it hurts your eyes so much...).

TSAA, TXAA, TAA are the only one working. All MxAA are not. FXAA are not.

It's not games related, it is Shader or Direct Shader / directx 9-11/ L2 GPU cache (see the post on it on this thread) related.

All goes right with Spore or Doom (not 100% on doom but you need to search it). OpenGL looks near uninfacted.

Dx12 (BF1) is working great too.

Titanfall2 is DX11 but have TAA, and is working fine UNTIL you keep TAA.

My bet is something blocks GPU in TAA (or any Txx AA, something related with this), using anything else interfere with GPU VS game. The fact is lot of games do not use TxxAA... So we have more and more trouble each time because of this.


AND, REALLY IMPORTANT, NVIDIA OR AMD MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. I have an AMD GPU and they REALLY DON'T GIVE A FUCK! So keep your "prefered" manufacturer, it will change nothing, they do not care... I know, i spammed AMD's FB/Twitter/Mail with 0 answer... Nvidia topic is at more than 100 pages...

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Posted

Edit:

I forget: See some strange flickering on TV too. The one like on my World of Tank vidéo, on the SPG (beginning of the video, you can't miss it). It happened on building or railings. I know sometimes on TV it happens with shirt, specialy with those with railings skin.
 

AGAIN, sorry for my bad english, i'm french.

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Posted
2 hours ago, clement1012 said:

I agree with you Mark, I think this is an electrical problem but I measured the voltages of my outlets with a volmeter and the values displayed are correct. I will never but a nvidia graphics card in the future, it's certain. (sorry for my bad english).

It has been claimed the issues occur with both Nvidia and AMD GPUs. 

 

Also, it cannot be power-related due to the strict power-conditioning by the PSU and VRM circuitry on the GPU. It's simply not possible. The only effect bad power delivery can have on a GPU is reduced performance (lower, inconsistent frame rates) but it will not and cannot effect how the GPU actually renders images in a game. That is dependent on software, more specifically; the graphics drivers, API and game engine.

My Systems:

Main - Work + Gaming:

Spoiler

Woodland Raven: Ryzen 2700X // AMD Wraith RGB // Asus Prime X570-P // G.Skill 2x 8GB 3600MHz DDR4 // Radeon RX Vega 56 // Crucial P1 NVMe 1TB M.2 SSD // Deepcool DQ650-M // chassis build in progress // Windows 10 // Thrustmaster TMX + G27 pedals & shifter

F@H Rig:

Spoiler

FX-8350 // Deepcool Neptwin // MSI 970 Gaming // AData 2x 4GB 1600 DDR3 // 2x Gigabyte RX-570 4G's // Samsung 840 120GB SSD // Cooler Master V650 // Windows 10

 

HTPC:

Spoiler

SNES PC (HTPC): i3-4150 @3.5 // Gigabyte GA-H87N-Wifi // G.Skill 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 // Asus Dual GTX 1050Ti 4GB OC // AData SP600 128GB SSD // Pico 160XT PSU // Custom SNES Enclosure // 55" LG LED 1080p TV  // Logitech wireless touchpad-keyboard // Windows 10 // Build Log

Laptops:

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MY DAILY: Lenovo ThinkPad T410 // 14" 1440x900 // i5-540M 2.5GHz Dual-Core HT // Intel HD iGPU + Quadro NVS 3100M 512MB dGPU // 2x4GB DDR3L 1066 // Mushkin Triactor 480GB SSD // Windows 10

 

WIFE'S: Dell Latitude E5450 // 14" 1366x768 // i5-5300U 2.3GHz Dual-Core HT // Intel HD5500 // 2x4GB RAM DDR3L 1600 // 500GB 7200 HDD // Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon

 

EXPERIMENTAL: Pinebook // 11.6" 1080p // Manjaro KDE (ARM)

NAS:

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Home NAS: Pentium G4400 @3.3 // Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 // 2x 4GB DDR4 2400 // Intel HD Graphics // Kingston A400 120GB SSD // 3x Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200 HDDs in RAID-Z // Cooler Master Silent Pro M 1000w PSU // Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG // FreeNAS OS

 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

It has been claimed the issues occur with both Nvidia and AMD GPUs. 

 

Also, it cannot be power-related due to the strict power-conditioning by the PSU and VRM circuitry on the GPU. It's simply not possible. The only effect bad power delivery can have on a GPU is reduced performance (lower, inconsistent frame rates) but it will not and cannot effect how the GPU actually renders images in a game. That is dependent on software, more specifically; the graphics drivers, API and game engine.

If not an electrical problem, how to explain that consoles and TV's are affected by flickering:
 
(read the comment of theskipper847)
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Posted

Hello, I'm new here, I have this issue till january,

Wanted to tell this, I'm not into electrical problem because we live in different countries so that's basically does not match. But You all into its software and driver problem related , but this is weird because I made format and installed win 10 on the new ssd and without graphic drivers had still this issue so it can't be driver problem imo. Do simple test uinstall nvidia or amd drivers reboot your pc and you will have this same issue and that not change anything


@UP but many ppl have this problem on laptops running on batteries so its not electrical problem unless electricy is only beggining and damage soemthing on the screen or something like that

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Posted

I forgot to report that the problem is also present on my desktop windows, all the icons are aliased which means in my opinion that directx is not involved.

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Posted
2 hours ago, clement1012 said:
If not an electrical problem, how to explain that consoles and TV's are affected by flickering:
 
(read the comment of theskipper847)

I can't explain it and I have yet to see evidence of the issue on TV's with consoles. Not saying I don't believe the issue is real, just that I haven't observed it myself. Enough people have come forward to say they have the same issue, so I don't deny it's real, but by the simple fact of how the power delivery system works in PC (and console) hardware, it's not possible for "dirty power" to effect specific elements of how the GPU renders the image. 

 

There has to be something in the hardware or firmware that is common to both platforms and all GPU manufacturers that is causing this. I don't have an answer, but I know it can't be power-related. 

My Systems:

Main - Work + Gaming:

Spoiler

Woodland Raven: Ryzen 2700X // AMD Wraith RGB // Asus Prime X570-P // G.Skill 2x 8GB 3600MHz DDR4 // Radeon RX Vega 56 // Crucial P1 NVMe 1TB M.2 SSD // Deepcool DQ650-M // chassis build in progress // Windows 10 // Thrustmaster TMX + G27 pedals & shifter

F@H Rig:

Spoiler

FX-8350 // Deepcool Neptwin // MSI 970 Gaming // AData 2x 4GB 1600 DDR3 // 2x Gigabyte RX-570 4G's // Samsung 840 120GB SSD // Cooler Master V650 // Windows 10

 

HTPC:

Spoiler

SNES PC (HTPC): i3-4150 @3.5 // Gigabyte GA-H87N-Wifi // G.Skill 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 // Asus Dual GTX 1050Ti 4GB OC // AData SP600 128GB SSD // Pico 160XT PSU // Custom SNES Enclosure // 55" LG LED 1080p TV  // Logitech wireless touchpad-keyboard // Windows 10 // Build Log

Laptops:

Spoiler

MY DAILY: Lenovo ThinkPad T410 // 14" 1440x900 // i5-540M 2.5GHz Dual-Core HT // Intel HD iGPU + Quadro NVS 3100M 512MB dGPU // 2x4GB DDR3L 1066 // Mushkin Triactor 480GB SSD // Windows 10

 

WIFE'S: Dell Latitude E5450 // 14" 1366x768 // i5-5300U 2.3GHz Dual-Core HT // Intel HD5500 // 2x4GB RAM DDR3L 1600 // 500GB 7200 HDD // Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon

 

EXPERIMENTAL: Pinebook // 11.6" 1080p // Manjaro KDE (ARM)

NAS:

Spoiler

Home NAS: Pentium G4400 @3.3 // Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 // 2x 4GB DDR4 2400 // Intel HD Graphics // Kingston A400 120GB SSD // 3x Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200 HDDs in RAID-Z // Cooler Master Silent Pro M 1000w PSU // Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG // FreeNAS OS

 

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Posted
5 hours ago, clement1012 said:

I forgot to report that the problem is also present on my desktop windows, all the icons are aliased which means in my opinion that directx is not involved.

can you post a picture of it?

| Intel i7-3770@4.2Ghz | Asus Z77-V | Zotac 980 Ti Amp! Omega | DDR3 1800mhz 4GB x4 | 300GB Intel DC S3500 SSD | 512GB Plextor M5 Pro | 2x 1TB WD Blue HDD |
 | Enermax NAXN82+ 650W 80Plus Bronze | Fiio E07K | Grado SR80i | Cooler Master XB HAF EVO | Logitech G27 | Logitech G600 | CM Storm Quickfire TK | DualShock 4 |

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Posted

The problem is 100% not electricy  related. I just had the thought it may be a grounding issue. But dont think so since the second time i fixed it temporarily was at my friends house.

 

Its software, thats for sure.

 

This were the bluescreen, after me disabling powersaving features in the bios.  -system_services_exception (ntoskrnel.exe) , after this bluescreen, i started my games and the same problem was back. The pc this happened i already returned.

 

I looked more into the bluescreen back in days and it brought to some rly deep folders in the windows folder.  I dont rly know anymore exactly but it was smth like AMD64_Microsoft...  etc. Smth to do with the graphics.

 

But keep in mind that for my other pc, my first pc there wasnt any bluescreens at all and it happened.

 

But on the new PC it came after the bluescreen and the bluescreen came directly after i disabled the bios settings.

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Posted
10 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

can you post a picture of it?

Yes, I took a picture with my smartphone because the problem is much more visible than on a screen

58e38cc82d554_P_20170404_140712_vHDR_Auto1.thumb.jpg.a2b63ebaa417b92fced514cc2ddfbf77.jpg

 

P_20170404_140953_vHDR_Auto[1].jpg

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Posted
2 hours ago, clement1012 said:

Yes, I took a picture with my smartphone because the problem is much more visible than on a screen

Spoiler

 

58e38cc82d554_P_20170404_140712_vHDR_Auto1.thumb.jpg.a2b63ebaa417b92fced514cc2ddfbf77.jpg

 

P_20170404_140953_vHDR_Auto[1].jpg

 

 

I'm not seeing any issue here... 

 

What is your screen size and resolution?

My Systems:

Main - Work + Gaming:

Spoiler

Woodland Raven: Ryzen 2700X // AMD Wraith RGB // Asus Prime X570-P // G.Skill 2x 8GB 3600MHz DDR4 // Radeon RX Vega 56 // Crucial P1 NVMe 1TB M.2 SSD // Deepcool DQ650-M // chassis build in progress // Windows 10 // Thrustmaster TMX + G27 pedals & shifter

F@H Rig:

Spoiler

FX-8350 // Deepcool Neptwin // MSI 970 Gaming // AData 2x 4GB 1600 DDR3 // 2x Gigabyte RX-570 4G's // Samsung 840 120GB SSD // Cooler Master V650 // Windows 10

 

HTPC:

Spoiler

SNES PC (HTPC): i3-4150 @3.5 // Gigabyte GA-H87N-Wifi // G.Skill 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 // Asus Dual GTX 1050Ti 4GB OC // AData SP600 128GB SSD // Pico 160XT PSU // Custom SNES Enclosure // 55" LG LED 1080p TV  // Logitech wireless touchpad-keyboard // Windows 10 // Build Log

Laptops:

Spoiler

MY DAILY: Lenovo ThinkPad T410 // 14" 1440x900 // i5-540M 2.5GHz Dual-Core HT // Intel HD iGPU + Quadro NVS 3100M 512MB dGPU // 2x4GB DDR3L 1066 // Mushkin Triactor 480GB SSD // Windows 10

 

WIFE'S: Dell Latitude E5450 // 14" 1366x768 // i5-5300U 2.3GHz Dual-Core HT // Intel HD5500 // 2x4GB RAM DDR3L 1600 // 500GB 7200 HDD // Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon

 

EXPERIMENTAL: Pinebook // 11.6" 1080p // Manjaro KDE (ARM)

NAS:

Spoiler

Home NAS: Pentium G4400 @3.3 // Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 // 2x 4GB DDR4 2400 // Intel HD Graphics // Kingston A400 120GB SSD // 3x Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200 HDDs in RAID-Z // Cooler Master Silent Pro M 1000w PSU // Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG // FreeNAS OS

 

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Posted

You do not see pixeled on those icons? Really?

I do, and i do not have the same trouble. On my screen, on windows desk, no problem.

But what are those strange line, screen pixels?

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