Nvidia's "Tier 0" Program Is Behind The Origin PC Debacle.

[TechFan@ic]

More has come out about the alleged Nvidia-OriginPC deal to forgo the selling of AMD GPUs.
An Nvidia sales program code named "Tier 0" is behind it all and the Nvidia Board of Directors do not like it one bit.

 

Heads will likely roll after the dust settles because of this, due to the illegal nature of what took place either some folks at Nvidia will lose their jobs, Nvidia will lose a lot of money or both.
"Tier 0" is still in effect & the plan was for it to be rolled out to other vendors as well.

The gist of the program is :

Tier 0 partners have to drop competitive products, AMD in this case, publicly badmouth AMD, and put out press releases/bang the publicity drum on the subject. The idea is to make it look like a grassroots problem that high-end gaming PC makers are all sick of AMD and the alleged but manufactured and false quality problems.

 

In return they get paid in the form of product discounts, MDF, and/or other assorted funding to a total directly based on the sales of AMD products they either had or would likely have had. On top of this they also gain earlier access to Maxwell GPUs than other OEMs. The total is of course more than the total of AMD sales so it is a net financial positive although some may be indirect, not that it needs saying, and it is what we were hinting at in our earlier article but could not say at the time without further confirmation.

Source

[Sarcasm]

Well this should get interesting. Let's see if nVidia gets fined.

Although that might not be for the next while, seeing as the FTC is furloughed...

[typetheed]

Damn, why all these tactics? I thought Nvidia already had great sales numbers and marketshare. Do they want to eliminate AMD completely?

[helping]

I wonder if AMD could potential sue for slander if those were nvidia's true intentions. 

[TERAFLOP]

Damn, why all these tactics? I thought Nvidia already had great sales numbers and marketshare. Do they want to eliminate AMD completely?

They're in a very difficult position is likely why.

They haven't been successful in securing any console market share and they're having a very difficult time maintaining their PC market share.

http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/details/add-in-board-market-down-in-q2-amd-gains-market-share/

[afa7336]

Well this should get interesting. Let's see if nVidia gets fined.

Although that might not be for the next while, seeing as the FTC is furloughed...

 

Blah blah blah, same sad author trying so hard to put something there that isn't. I loved the part in the article  "Their public statements do not make logical sense." And why don't they make sense? "Tier 0 was unquestionably an Nvidia sales program, it unquestionably gave Origin PC compensation for publicly badmouthing AMD, and it is unquestionably not as either company is desperately trying to spin it since SemiAccurate exposed it." You didn't tell me much there, except bragging that you were the first to get this story from your super duper secret sources at Nvidia that no one knows about. Give me other reasons, like the hardware is fine, here is why. Oh no, it has to be because your super secret source! Just like you have a secret source that says Intel believes Ultrabooks are failures. Lets not mention thats what Intel chips are targeting is Ultrabooks and the like with lower TDP parts?

 

An exclusive, that no other news site but him has access to these sources, no less. On a site that charges $1,000 USD a year for full unfettered access. 

 

Then I can get into the article I posted on the other thread about where there really were issues that builders were having with AMD. Even quotes from some. Tom's Hardware article.

 

Geez, people actually read this tabloid dribble? Man, this is worse then the Soaps. The guy even fell for the flash your 680 into a 770 rumor, and went on to write two articles about it! The same guy that said Nvidia was looking for buyers not long ago. Please disregard this article until more facts come up and let Origin PCs statement speak for itself.

 

 

 

"The decision to take AMD GPU’s off the web was made based on support. More Specifically, support from AMD to Origin, and Origin to our customers.

 

Take their last chipset announcement for example. It was another hardware representative that informed us of the new Hawaii chipset. AMD never told us anything about it, nor shared a road map outlining its future integration. When we did get with our AMD representative, we were told that there was a new chipset launching, and we could watch the event live and get answers to our questions.

 

We also asked for samples to start our research and development process, something that is standard in the industry for bleeding edge integrators, and we were met with resistance there... When they did agree to send samples it was for [two] R9 270’s, rather than the R9 280's or 290's that we would be more likely to offer...

 

Moreover, this wasn’t the first time AMD had done something like this to us. Support from AMD to Origin hasn’t been where it should be or up to par like we get from other vendors. In my opinion it's due to our size. We don’t move enough AMD product for them to worry about us. You would think they would work with us to help grow the Origin-AMD business relationship.

 

With regard to supporting Origin customers who chose AMD product, it’s been an uphill battle. ”Primarily the overall issues have been stability of the cards, overheating, performance, scaling, and the amount of time to receive new drivers on both desktop and mobile GPUs.

 

Those 2 issues, combined with the very low percentage of Radeon cards that we sell, it didn’t make sense to continue offering AMD GPU’s. The way they treated Origin during the announcement of the Hawaii GPU showed AMD didn’t care for Origin's business relationship. In effect, AMD dropped us.

 

As far as Nvidia paying Origin to do it, that simply didn’t happen. Nvidia doesn’t make enough in sales from Origin PC to justify the allegation. The numbers aren’t there for Nvidia to come close to six figures, (or any amount) the basic math shows that. Without giving away trade secrets, Nvidia doesn't make the cards, they make the GPUs. So every time Manufacturer X sells a video card, Nvidia makes a small percentage. If you multiply that number by how many systems we sell per year, the allegations simply don't add up. 

 

Conspiracy is exciting, and everyone loves controversy. The reality is, it's nothing that exciting. We feel AMD left us hanging on both sides of support so we reacted. If and when things change and we feel we can offer AMD and provide systems to our customers that will provide the best overall experience we will. We don’t have brand loyalty. We have customer loyalty."

[GPUXPert]

snip

You obviously like Nvidia a bit too much to care about what they do, that's a mistake however, if we let every company do as it pleases we're all pretty much screwed.

[Leonard]

They're losing, that's why.

They lost all of their console market share and they're losing their PC market share faster than you can say PhysX.

http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/details/add-in-board-market-down-in-q2-amd-gains-market-share/

That and then there is the fact that that is how unscrupulous business is done. 

[TERAFLOP]

So we have Nvidia fighting with everything they have to secure whatever market share they have left, throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks & then Linus says Nvidia is holding back, do you realize how ridiculous that sounds ?

[Warcony]

So we have Nvidia fighting with everything they have to secure whatever market share they have left, throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks & then Linus says Nvidia is holding back, do you realize how ridiculous that sounds ?

 

Nvidia is holding back... on the graphics horsepower end.  They may have fell asleep at the wheel a bit when it comes to the overall experience and bridging the gap between platforms. 

[TERAFLOP]

Nvidia is holding back... on the graphics horsepower end.  They may have fell asleep at the wheel a bit when it comes to the overall experience and bridging the gap between platforms. 

You realize that still does not make any sense, GK110 is the largest chip Nvidia could physically produce on 28nm, the process does not support anything larger than that.

So they have already given us the best they could possibly make.

 

The GK110 is a very large chip at 7.1 billion transistors.  It likely is approaching the maximum reticle limit for lithography, and it would make little sense to try to make a larger chip.  So it seems that GK110 will be the flagship single GPU for quite some time.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-TITAN-Preview-GK110-GPU-Boost-20-Overclocking-and-GPGPU

[afa7336]

You obviously like Nvidia a bit too much to care about what they do, that's a mistake however, if we let every company do as it pleases we're all pretty much screwed.

 

I don't care about Nvidia or AMD. I use whatever fits my needs. Thats why I have both AMD and Nvidia GPUs and AMD and Intel processors in machines in my house right now. (Heck my HTPC is pure AMD for crying out loud, and I love that box.)

 

But its funny how you sit there and say I care too much when I am pointing people to real hard facts, and everyone is jumping on the hate/bash Nvidia bandwagon. Isn't it interesting that the coveted "Sources told me" has burned us all in the past (WMDs is the best example) but people still fail to question hidden sources and just want to believe so bad.

 

To you I say, instead of agreeing with this hit piece, why don't you do your own investigating of this author and the facts surrounding it and look at the kinds of stuff he has put out against Nvidia. The dude obviously has a grudge because he feels slighted by Nvidia.

 

Your saying I am letting companies do as they please? Show me the FACTS to back up this article, please. Cold hard facts, stuff that people should actually be looking for.

 

Origin PC broke down why it didn't make sense, why don't you read their statement and tell me whats wrong with their own statement? 

[carolkarine]

welp, this is a fun and interesting turn of events. I can't wait to see Linus go over this in detail on the next wan show, although I hope his slight nvidia bias doesn't intrude too much.

[GPUXPert]

snip

What you're asking for is physically impossible, only when AMD officially files a law suit can we know the facts of the matter.

This article and the previous did include hard facts, like when Nvidia paid the developers to cut AMD off.

 

[nightlitezzz]

So basically they want to be a monopoly?

[winny3141]

Nvidia made a mistake. This is their marketing team, however, so it is not the board of directors doing at least. But, honestly, Nvidia marketers should be confident enough in their products ability to defeat amd on the market. However, ever since the GK110 release (and it being extremely expensive to produce) and the Kepler refresh of the GK104 chip in the 700 series, I see where Nvidia marketers might be coming from, getting pressure from AMD to release new cards that can compete with the new Hawaii based GPUs in certain price brackets. However, Maxwell looks awfully impressive, and is doing something very similar to what AMD is doing with Mantle, using an on-board ARM processor to offload some processing from the CPU onto the GPU itself, as an effort to reduce CPU Overhead.

 

- winny3141

[afa7336]

http://hothardware.com/News/Why-Everyone-Should-Chill-Out-About-Origin-PC-Dropping-AMD-GPUs/

 

Better article that offers some actual analysis. (One that I am sure that semi-accurate would make you pay 1k/year for).

[TechFan@ic]

http://hothardware.com/News/Why-Everyone-Should-Chill-Out-About-Origin-PC-Dropping-AMD-GPUs/

 

Better article that offers some actual analysis. (One that I am sure that semi-accurate would make you pay 1k/year for).

I've already read that one, doesn't offer nearly as much detail of what's going on, doesn't even mention Tier 0.

[Exotath]

This is going to go no where, whether Charlie is making a mountain out of a mole hill or not.

[Lukiose]

Nvidia made a mistake. This is their marketing team, however, so it is not the board of directors doing at least. But, honestly, Nvidia marketers should be confident enough in their products ability to defeat amd on the market. However, ever since the GK110 release (and it being extremely expensive to produce) and the Kepler refresh of the GK104 chip in the 700 series, I see where Nvidia marketers might be coming from, getting pressure from AMD to release new cards that can compete with the new Hawaii based GPUs in certain price brackets. However, Maxwell looks awfully impressive, and is doing something very similar to what AMD is doing with Mantle, using an on-board ARM processor to offload some processing from the CPU onto the GPU itself, as an effort to reduce CPU Overhead.

 

- winny3141

The problem is Maxwell isn't anywhere near ready yet lol :3  But yeah, on paper it looks to be a very powerful lineup, i'm liking the idea of the combined memory already since DDR4 will bring much higher frequencies to system RAM, offsetting some of the performance gaps between DDR3 and GDDR5

[Exotath]

I've already read that one, doesn't offer nearly as much detail of what's going on, doesn't even mention Tier 0.

 

Tier 0 isn't mentioned because Charlie is the only one on the planet with the source linking to such information.

[LifesCompanion]

a) It's from Semiaccurate, ergo stupidly inaccurate 

b) I think the author has a very poor grip on reality (e.g. "Intel proves PCs not coming back" http://semiaccurate.com/2013/09/18/intel-proves-pcs-coming-back/) 

c) The author seems to hate anything that's not Apple 

d) While this may be a possibility, such a major/controversial business decision would not have gone through without the consent of the board

e) Common sense folks, common sense 

 

TL; DR; I call bs 

[Katness Everdeen]

a) It's from Semiaccurate, ergo stupidly inaccurate 

B) I think the author has a very poor grip on reality (e.g. "Intel proves PCs not coming back" http://semiaccurate.com/2013/09/18/intel-proves-pcs-coming-back/) 

c) The author seems to hate anything that's not Apple 

d) While this may be a possibility, such a major/controversial business decision would not have gone through without the consent of the board

e) Common sense folks, common sense 

 

TL; DR; I call bs 

He's absolutely right though, he's saying it like it is.

In the end Intel seems hell-bent on actively denying users the things they want while jacking the prices of PCs way up. The company has demonstrated its ability to force OEMs to do their bidding but refuses to wield that power for anything that won’t destroy the market. Their CEO and GM of the PC client group both touted incremental gains in form factors roundly rejected by the market and dodged questions about forcing objectionable bits down users throats for more money. Intel’s strategy to save PCs failed three years ago and we are about to launch generation four while accelerating towards a proverbial brick wall. Haswell Ultrabooks are a regression, Broadwell ones are worse, Bay Trail launches without Android, and Windows 8/8.1 with touch screens are now mandatory. It is all just crap that no one wants at a higher price with unnecessary incremental improvements. Again. PCs have no chance and Intel thinks it is just peachy

 

What happens when something scandelous leaks ? attack the credibility of the leaker... Edward Snowden anyone...

[afa7336]

 

TechFan@ic, on 07 Oct 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

I've already read that one, doesn't offer nearly as much detail of what's going on, doesn't even mention Tier 0.

 

Have you thought maybe the reason it doesn't mention Tier 0 is because it might not exist? Or no one has any proof one way or the other. The only thing that has Tier 0 and Nvidia is this article from Semiaccurate and places its spread to. Not one person is picking it up. That sound right to you?

 

That article goes into why it makes sense that media was notified. It gives the full statement from Origin, thats lacking in the article. But here is a question, besides Origin, name one company that has come out and said they were asked to drop AMD? I can't think of a single one. If they really went to several, don't you think someone would step up and say something?

 

Like Origins statement said, Nvidia only makes the GPU part of a computer. Lets say they get 780's in SLI we're talking maybe 1700 on a 6000+ system? You know the margins on products these days? We're not talking Nvidia makes the full 1600, we're talking probably a penny on the dollar. If that. So lets say it is a penny. For those two 780s at 1600, there profit was 60 USD. Lets see how much it takes to get to a million. That'd roughly be 16,667 systems. And thats just with a system with dual 780's. What about the systems with lower tier cards, or single card systems. Like most products GPUs don't make mythical amounts of money on each sold.

 

If I told you I had a source close to Asus, that Asus was paying Linus not to review Creative soundcards (And you can check on his youtube, only one creative video and thats a headset, afaict) would you really believe me, or tell me I am full of it. (I'd be full of it, for sure.)

 

I'm an Analyst in my former life, this is what I do sorta. You always check things out, and the facts aren't really there. If someone has facts, guess what, show them.

 

We had a President that said we have sources that there were WMDs, and that was proven false. Why do you decide not to question hidden sources at all? I mean come on, this is a guy who thinks all kinds of crazy things, and charges an arm and a leg to read his analysis. I mean, would anyone here really pay 1000USD to read this guys analysis for a year? 

[Exotath]

I have absolutely no doubt NV planned a type of campaign aimed at getting system builders to drop/favor their brand. However I disagree that NV would require them to publicly "badmouth" AMD in order to be a part of such a program.

 

Origin had their own gripe with AMD, this was just the final push for them. NV seems to have just gotten burned in the crossfire that would have inevitably come out between Origin and AMD in the future.