PSU Tier List [OLD]

[JoostinOnline]

The EVGA 450BT is really popular, but I don't see it on this list.  Anyone know anything about it?

[seon123]

23 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

The EVGA 450BT is really popular, but I don't see it on this list.  Anyone know anything about it?

If there aren't reviews of a PSU, it's generally because the brand doesn't want reviewers to confirm that the PSU is crap. 

Found this thread on the Jonnyguru forums. 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14232&page=6

[OrionFOTL]

It's a cheap group regulated unit built by Shenzhen Rui Sheng Yuan, otherwise there are no tests or reviews at all.

 

Nobody knows if it keeps voltages and ripple in spec and whether it's a bomb or not, which makes it horrifying how quick people on Reddit or elsewhere are recommending it based on the "I bought it and it works" argument.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/848737/psu_evga_450_bt_80_bronze_450w_2199_44992300/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/7753px/psu_evga_bt_450w_80_plus_bronze_12_2210_rebate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/6txcvj/psu_evga_450_bt_80_bronze_450w_power_supply_999/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/716et4/psu_evga_450_bt_450w_80_bronze_989_2989_20_rebate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/7ufv8s/psu_evga_450w_bt_80_bronze_sleeved_cables_2199_w/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/8409qn/psu_evga_450_bt_4499232199/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/6qrt0n/psu_evga_450_bt_80_bronze_450w_2499_4499_20/

 

[JoostinOnline]

4 minutes ago, seon123 said:

If there aren't reviews of a PSU, it's generally because the brand doesn't want reviewers to confirm that the PSU is crap. 

Found this thread on the Jonnyguru forums. 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14232&page=6

So reviewers just do whatever the company says?  That's pretty sketchy.

 

That thread doesn't tell me a whole lot.  Not that there isn't information, just that I don't know a whole lot about power supplies.  I've got no way to interpret it.  I knew about the sleeve bearing fan as it's mentioned in the description, but I don't understand the rest.

1 minute ago, OrionFOTL said:

It's a cheap group regulated unit built by Shenzhen Rui Sheng Yuan, otherwise there are no tests or reviews at all.

 

Nobody knows if it keeps voltages and ripple in spec and whether it's a bomb or not, which makes it horrifying how quick people on Reddit or elsewhere are recommending it based on the "I bought it and it works" argument.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/848737/psu_evga_450_bt_80_bronze_450w_2199_44992300/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/7753px/psu_evga_bt_450w_80_plus_bronze_12_2210_rebate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/6txcvj/psu_evga_450_bt_80_bronze_450w_power_supply_999/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/716et4/psu_evga_450_bt_450w_80_bronze_989_2989_20_rebate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/7ufv8s/psu_evga_450w_bt_80_bronze_sleeved_cables_2199_w/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/8409qn/psu_evga_450_bt_4499232199/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/6qrt0n/psu_evga_450_bt_80_bronze_450w_2499_4499_20/

 

The near universal positive reviews on Amazon and the low price point definitely make it attractive.

[OrionFOTL]

44 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

The near universal positive reviews on Amazon and the low price point definitely make it attractive

Reviews on Amazon don't matter, because to evaluate whether a PSU is good or not, you need to measure its voltage regulation, load regulation, transient response, ripple suppression, working protections, specification of the internal components, and many other things.

Putting a PSU in a computer, turning it on and giving it 5 stars for it doesn't tell you if the PSU is good or not.

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, OrionFOTL said:

Reviews on Amazon don't matter, because to evaluate whether a PSU is good or not, you need to measure its voltage regulation, load regulation, transient response, ripple suppression, working protections, specification of the internal components, and many other things.

Putting a PSU in a computer, turning it on and giving it 5 stars for it doesn't tell you if the PSU is good or not.

Well they definitely matter some.  How quiet it is and if it blows up your system has some weight to the quality.

 

Lots of power supplies have terrible reviews.  I just need something to put in a computer I'm buying and flipping. The PSU it has is one of those gray monstrosities with colorful pre-tangled cables sticking out everywhere.  If the quality is even a little bit better, I'm fine with it.

 

A well organized sleeved PSU will help me sell it for more.  I'd feel bad doing it if the quality is lower though.

[seon123]

1 hour ago, JoostinOnline said:

So reviewers just do whatever the company says?  That's pretty sketchy.

No, but the brands generally know how well their PSU is going to perform in the reviews. 

[JoostinOnline]

3 minutes ago, seon123 said:

No, but the brands generally know how well their PSU is going to perform in the reviews. 

I don't understand how that's relevant.  "No reviews" doesn't mean "cover-up".

[Energycore]

1 hour ago, JoostinOnline said:

The near universal positive reviews on Amazon and the low price point definitely make it attractive.

They might  make it attractive to the untrained eye, but the lack of reviews says one thing: EVGA does not trust this unit to hold up against scrutiny. Given the lesser OEM, cheap design and no review this is likely a really bad unit.

 

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I don't understand how that's relevant.  "No reviews" doesn't mean "cover-up".

In this industry it does, because manufacturers have a decades long history of designing really bad PSUs, bad to the point of danger to your computer or your house, not sending anyone a review unit and enjoying some quick sales at the expense of consumer ignorance.

 

37 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

 

A well organized sleeved PSU will help me sell it for more.  I'd feel bad doing it if the quality is lower though.

There's CX450s and CX450Ms constantly with really nice rebates in the US, so you can consider getting one and they're all black sleeved or ribbon cables.

 

You can also cable manage to try and hide as much of the ketchup and mustard in there.

[JoostinOnline]

2 minutes ago, Energycore said:

They might  make it attractive to the untrained eye, but the lack of reviews says one thing: EVGA does not trust this unit to hold up against scrutiny. Given the lesser OEM, cheap design and no review this is likely a really bad unit.

 

In this industry it does, because manufacturers have a decades long history of designing really bad PSUs, bad to the point of danger to your computer or your house, not sending anyone a review unit and enjoying some quick sales at the expense of consumer ignorance.

 

There's CX450s and CX450Ms constantly with really nice rebates in the US, so you can consider getting one and they're all black sleeved or ribbon cables.

 

You can also cable manage to try and hide as much of the ketchup and mustard in there.

I have a hard time believing that sites can't afford $23 to test a major manufacturer's PSU.

3 minutes ago, Energycore said:

There's CX450s and CX450Ms constantly with really nice rebates in the US, so you can consider getting one and they're all black sleeved or ribbon cables.

 

You can also cable manage to try and hide as much of the ketchup and mustard in there.

I looked at those and I might end up doing it.  I hate rebates though.  Even if I don't forget to mail them in time (which I do at least half the time), it's usually either a six month wait or get it in one month but you get less money back.  This is about maximizing profits though.  A $23 name-brand PSU that's at least on par with the existing brand-less one could get me an extra $40 ($17 after costs of course).  With a nicer one I could break even or lose money.

 

So yeah, I was hoping someone could get at least a semi-positive review, but if you think it will do worse than the existing one I won't bother.

[Energycore]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

I have a hard time believing that sites can't afford $23 to test a major manufacturer's PSU.

Right, but can they afford to buy every unit that comes out that's relatively relevant? A lot of these review sites like JonnyGuru are unpaid (need confirmation on that)

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

I looked at those and I might end up doing it.  I hate rebates though.  Even if I don't forget to mail them in time (which I do at least half the time), it's usually either a six month wait or get it in one month but you get less money back.  This is about maximizing profits though.  A $23 name-brand PSU that's at least on par with the existing brand-less one could get me an extra $40 ($17 after costs of course).  With a nicer one I could break even or lose money.

 

So yeah, I was hoping someone could get at least a semi-positive review, but if you think it will do worse than the existing one I won't bother.

Well, to be fair the one you have right now could be pretty bad. Can we take a look at it? Need a photo of the side sticker, the clearer the better

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, Energycore said:

Right, but can they afford to buy every unit that comes out that's relatively relevant? A lot of these review sites like JonnyGuru are unpaid (need confirmation on that)

Well, to be fair the one you have right now could be pretty bad. Can we take a look at it? Need a photo of the side sticker, the clearer the better

I would really appreciate it.  Assuming I make the trade (I need him to verify which i7 model it has), I'll post a picture.

[Stefan Payne]

8 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Right, but can they afford to buy every unit that comes out that's relatively relevant? A lot of these review sites like JonnyGuru are unpaid (need confirmation on that)

Confirmed.

And they have already enough to do with models that are not total shit, that make them money.

 

A Oklahoma Wolf mentioned that reviewing lower wattage/shitty stuff don't pay.

11 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I have a hard time believing that sites can't afford $23 to test a major manufacturer's PSU.

They don't. and why should they do that?

The only one who might eventually do that is HardOCP. But then again, from a financial point, it doesn't pay any bill and is a lose-lose scenario, where you just pissed off the company, lost money for the PSU and the Review doesn't even pay for the PSU at all.

 

11 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

So yeah, I was hoping someone could get at least a semi-positive review, but if you think it will do worse than the existing one I won't bother.

Its group regulated, that's just bullshit for modern components. You don't want them to be grilled because you are gaming and the GPU has hard power saving mechanism that let the PSU regulate the voltage so that it goes way out of spec...

 

For example, if you pull 300W for 1s and 25W the next, that might be a problem and its entirely possible that the voltage, due to low loads, goes somewhere to 13V or even more if you're unlucky.

 

 

With more modern DC-DC units you have at least the load from the minor rails on the +12V Rail...

 

[kingmustard]

On 23/03/2018 at 11:44 PM, kingmustard said:

Added some model numbers above in blue, if it helps people

 

It's not complete, though.

 

Would be nice if the first post was updated with model numbers. I'm happy to help.

I guess no one cared 

[Energycore]

Just now, kingmustard said:

I guess no one cared 

I had honestly not seen that.

 

It's a lot of information, though having it at hand might be useful

[kingmustard]

4 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I had honestly not seen that.

 

It's a lot of information, though having it at hand might be useful

I wonder if we could pop it into a Google Sheet or something?

[Starelementpoke]

2 minutes ago, kingmustard said:

I wonder if we could pop it into a Google Sheet or something?

We tried that once. It blew up quickly.

[kingmustard]

Just now, Starelementpoke said:

We tried that once. It blew up quickly.

Maybe three or so sheet-admins only?

[JoostinOnline]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

They don't. and why should they do that?

The only one who might eventually do that is HardOCP. But then again, from a financial point, it doesn't pay any bill and is a lose-lose scenario, where you just pissed off the company, lost money for the PSU and the Review doesn't even pay for the PSU at all.

I don't understand the logic behind that. Reviewing something popular increases traffic, and increasing traffic increases ad revenue. I get it for the brands nobody has ever heard of, but even though EVGA isn't a big power supply manufacturer, they're still well known, and the model is popular. It would more than pay for itself. 

 

Any review site who only gives positive reviews doesn't deserve any respect either. 

[seon123]

5 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I don't understand the logic behind that. Reviewing something popular increases traffic, and increasing traffic increases ad revenue. I get it for the brands nobody has ever heard of, but even though EVGA isn't a big power supply manufacturer, they're still well known, and the model is popular. It would more than pay for itself. 

 

Any review site who only gives positive reviews doesn't deserve any respect either. 

The people that buy $20 PSUs in the first place don't look at reviews. They live in their own little bubble, thinking that they can buy based on brand. I think you're seriously overestimating how many people actually research PSUs at all. 

EVGA isn't a PSU manufacturer, they're a PSU brand. 

[JoostinOnline]

9 minutes ago, seon123 said:

The people that buy $20 PSUs in the first place don't look at reviews. They live in their own little bubble, thinking that they can buy based on brand. I think you're seriously overestimating how many people actually research PSUs at all. 

Entirely possible. But as someone with a forum I can tell you that even small non-intrusive ads pay decently. 

12 minutes ago, seon123 said:

EVGA isn't a PSU manufacturer, they're a PSU brand.

That's what I said.

[Stefan Payne]

19 minutes ago, seon123 said:

I think you're seriously overestimating how many people actually research PSUs at all. 

Absolutely!

As I say, there are about 5 people per Country - if you are lucky - that are PSU experts.

And sometimes most of that originates from a single source and people are parroting that source.

 

So with that, a single person that is persistant is enough to change the perception of some bullshit if that person is active...

 

For the US/English speaking community that person is JonnyGURU.

For the German people however, that's me.

And I'm not into PSU for that long, only since around 2009 or so...

 

And as you said:
If you spend 20-30 bucks you don't do much research.

If you spend 200-300 bucks you want to make sure that you buy some good stuff.

[JoostinOnline]

Well for the record, I want to point out I'd never buy a PSU like that for myself, or recommend it on here.  I just wanted to know if I could put it in a computer I'm flipping without feeling terrible.  I might sleeve the cables of the existing one myself instead.

[STRMfrmXMN]

5 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

I have a hard time believing that sites can't afford $23 to test a major manufacturer's PSU.

 

Yeah, and for EVGA PR it would be in their best interest to send it to reviewers if it were any good at all, especially given its price point. The problem is that they haven't, despite nearly every other unit in their lineup being reviewed.

 

The user reviews quite literally mean shit. They might tell you if their unit was DOA but that happens to all units and isn't exclusive to cheap ones. Most Amazon users plug the PSU into their system, find it boots (and they might have replaced a dead unit, so to them this unit is an immediate five stars) and review it 5 stars. They definitely don't review transient response, measure ripple, test protections, or even open up the unit.

[JoostinOnline]

2 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

The user reviews quite literally mean shit. They might tell you if their unit was DOA but that happens to all units and isn't exclusive to cheap ones. Most Amazon users plug the PSU into their system, find it boots (and they might have replaced a dead unit, so to them this unit is an immediate five stars) and review it 5 stars. They definitely don't review transient response, measure ripple, test protections, or even open up the unit.

You realize I'm not suggesting they're anywhere as useful as a professional review, right?  I just mean that if you check the reviews and see an unusual number of people reporting an exploding PSU or just that they stopped working after two months, that bears some weight.  Which I would think is something you'd agree with.

 

No matter what I'm looking at, I check the critical reviews first.