Could this one day cool your computer?

[Little Bear]

Imagine having the coldest material (one or more chemically connected atoms) ever created properly cooling your home computer. This chilled sodium potassium reached as low as 500 Nanokelvins, -459.67 Fahrenheit, or -273.15 Celsius. This was achieved with lasers... we have arrived... we are now in a galaxy far far away.

 

(Of course, this is just paraphrased version of the link below.)

www.businessinsider.com/scientists-create-the-coldest-material-on-earth-2015-6

[Nacho Marco Segui]

[laminutederire]

Are you aware that such materials doesn't exist anymore in an ambient temperature room, and if it did, it wouldn't necessarily cool your computer.

I'm sorry for being harsh and everything, but the physics aren't working that easily.

It's like saying you want to cool your computer with a Bose condensate, it would be probably efficient, but as of today no bose condensate exists at 70°C.

Why? Because thermodynamics and quantum statistical physics tell you that heat transfers go from the hot source to the cold source, therefore any cold material will be warmed up by the air surrounding it and any cpu heating up etc.

[Little Bear]

10 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Are you aware that such materials doesn't exist anymore in an ambient temperature room, and if it did, it wouldn't necessarily cool your computer.

I'm sorry for being harsh and everything, but the physics aren't working that easily.

It's like saying you want to cool your computer with a Bose condensate, it would be probably efficient, but as of today no bose condensate exists at 70°C.

Why? Because thermodynamics and quantum statistical physics tell you that heat transfers go from the hot source to the cold source, therefore any cold material will be warmed up by the air surrounding it and any cpu heating up etc.

I actually wasn't speaking in a time soon, I was expressing a possible concept. For the record, I understand that we are in no place to achieve such a thing, but just because you think it can't happen doesn't mean it won't.

 

Also I have taken basic science classes you don't need to explain the 'high to low' effect of energy. Any four year old, and his dog could understand it without even knowing that such a thing existed.

[failblox]

That would be interesting, as it would allow for things such as superconductors to be present, allowing for current to flow with no resistance. Obviously, this would not be practical in real life, but it definitely seems like an interesting idea. I think the ability for superconductors to exist would be the biggest benefit, because computers would be a lot more efficient and they wouldn't need as much cooling.

[Little Bear]

3 minutes ago, failblox said:

That would be interesting, as it would allow for things such as superconductors to be present, allowing for current to flow with no resistance. Obviously, this would not be practical in real life, but it definitely seems like an interesting idea. I think the ability for superconductors to exist would be the biggest benefit, because computers would be a lot more efficient and they wouldn't need as much cooling.

Of course, this is far from even in the making.

[laminutederire]

6 minutes ago, Little Bear said:

I actually wasn't speaking in a time soon, I was expressing a possible concept. For the record, I understand that we are in no place to achieve such a thing, but just because you think it can't happen doesn't mean it won't.

 

Also I have taken basic science classes you don't need to explain the 'high to low' effect of energy. Any four year old, and his dog could understand it without even knowing that such a thing existed.

Don't be that aggressive.

Basic science classes don't teach the implications of the direction entropy forces.

But what you're describing is basically cooling your computer with liquid nitrogen!

[Little Bear]

8 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Don't be that aggressive.

Basic science classes don't teach the implications of the direction entropy forces.

But what you're describing is basically cooling your computer with liquid nitrogen!

You learn this in Biology, to understand the dissipation of nutrients through the body on a cellular level. Just as a refresher: High to low concentration requires no energy, while low to high uses energy, because it is going against the concentration gradient. CELL MEMBRANE.

[DrMikeNZ]

Just because something is 'cold' does not mean that it can in any way be used to cool anything.

A few molecules floating in a vacuum that decompose within 2.5 seconds would have extremely poor thermal conductivity, and extremely low mass, making its ability to cool anything completely useless.

 

The the specialised equipment that is needed to cool molecules in these very niche scientific applications are not practical, produce a tonne of heat and cost a lot of money. You would also likely be in violation of many local or national laws if you attempted something like this at home, not to mention nullify any house or contents insurance for the entire block.

 

3 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

But what you're describing is basically cooling your computer with liquid nitrogen!

Actually, it is closer to cooling the computer with helium phase change system followed by lasers tuned to counter the transistors operational frequency rendering them non-operational. It would be easier to cool the processor by turning the thing off.

[laminutederire]

1 minute ago, Little Bear said:

You learn this in Biology, to understand the dissipation of nutrients through the body on a cellular level. Just as a refresher: High to low concentration requires no energy, while low to high uses energy, because it is going against the concentration gradient.

You learn in graduate statistical quantum physics what lies beneath heat dissipation, what happens in low energy or low temperature matter states, why they have such amazing properties, you learn what a temperature even means.

After that you can understand why cooling a computer with liquid nitrogen or supercomputer materials as you call them, is sooooo bad energetically speaking.

[Little Bear]

Why do people think this is an immediate application, it literally says in the title: ONE DAY.

 

This topic meant: maybe some day, not let me get my calculator out and test the probability my computer wife, Karen will leave me.

[failblox]

22 minutes ago, Little Bear said:

Of course, this is far from even in the making.

Room-temperature superconductors are definitely the future.

[Little Bear]

2 minutes ago, failblox said:

Room-temperature superconductors are definitely the future.

I wonder what a jolt of electricity from one of those would feel like.

[VerticalDiscussions]

1 hour ago, Little Bear said:

-snip- "Any four year old, and his dog could understand it without even knowing that such a thing existed."

Humanity stupidity level is over 9000...

 

Seriously, calling 4 year olds and dogs for conversations that surely take a lot more than that to understand, is 100% idiotic, to not say worst!

[Little Bear]

8 minutes ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

Humanity stupidty level is over 9000...

 

Seriously, calling 4 year olds and dogs for conversations that surely take a lot more than that to understand, is 100% idiotic, to not say worst!

Let me take you on a journey... Today we will be uncovering literature, more specifically classifications of tone, and mood in a statement. The easiest demonstration is a hyperbole: an extreme exaggeration. Here is an example of a hyperbole: Any four year old, and his dog could understand it without even knowing that such a thing existed. Now that we have finished we our lesson, please swim in a vat of molten metal.

 

For the record don't call someone stupid if you don't know how to spell it.

[VerticalDiscussions]

1 minute ago, Little Bear said:

-snip-

For the record, ill presume your just trying to make uninteresting statement to defend your position as the "I know how to non aggressively offend someone", therefore ill just ignore you and pretend your just another one of those i really think should be somewhere else. Goodbye.

[DocSwag]

This wouldn't be a good choice for cooling our computers you know. Cpus these days stop functioning once their temperature is around negative 70c. This could potentially be used in quantum computers, though liquid helium seems like a better choice to me. Still cool though! 

[byalexandr]

Being near absolute zero, that would literally slow the electrons whizzing around in the silicon.

[unsubscribed]

No need for this solution. Two issues with this approach - one is that such cooling needs a lot of energy. Otherwise it would need to store the heat somewhere - a bit like Peltier one. Second issue is condensation. Remember frozen veg bag? Electronics don't like that at all.

As laminutederire mentioned physics are against things like that. You either need energy to consume or energy to extract to do such cooling. For vehicles and other large objects (eg. trains) technology like that is amazing. For computers there is nothing wrong with decent air cooling. If you cannot air cool it means you need to re-design it.

[BuckGup]

13 minutes ago, byalexandr said:

Being near absolute zero, that would literally slow the electrons whizzing around in the silicon.

Yeah even on LN2 there is a thing called a cold bug and you will see them melt off the extra LN2 with a blow torch because the CPU will get too cold and not work.

[Curufinwe_wins]

6 hours ago, laminutederire said:

You learn in graduate statistical quantum physics what lies beneath heat dissipation, what happens in low energy or low temperature matter states, why they have such amazing properties, you learn what a temperature even means.

After that you can understand why cooling a computer with liquid nitrogen or supercomputer materials as you call them, is sooooo bad energetically speaking.

In fairness, you learn 99% of that in a basic thermodynamics course (or if you have a good high school ap physics class). The little extra's are covered in some other areas as well (such as undergrad classes for Nuclear Engineers).

 

Source: PhD student/researcher in Nuclear Engineering @ UW-Madison

 

That said, NE is particularly interested in low energy, low temperature (and high temperature) statistical-based QM, and many of the other things you might learn in a grad-level stat QP course you wouldn't as an NE ugrad.

[laminutederire]

24 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

 

You know the properties but you don't understand all of the implication, nor do you understand the true meaning of things with just a basic thermodynamics class.

 

You don't have to quote your PhD to tell me that. I know thermodynamics can be understood as just a bunch of rules to apply, and basic classes can cover them. However I talked about the deep physical meaning which isn't taught in just a basic class. To understand it you have to study a lot of other things, like for instance quantum physics.

Most of the optimization in nuclear reactors are seen in advanced classes because they rely on principles beyond plain thermodynamics, and so is cooling something with an exotic state of the matter.

Heat transfers aren't done in basic thermodynamics classes, you don't learn non stationary conduction and convection, and radiation transfers without a bit of baggage. (Unless you butcher the mathematics part  )

Anyhow, just by curiosity, what does a nuclear engineer/researcher do?

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 hour ago, laminutederire said:

You know the properties but you don't understand all of the implication, nor do you understand the true meaning of things with just a basic thermodynamics class.

 

You don't have to quote your PhD to tell me that. I know thermodynamics can be understood as just a bunch of rules to apply, and basic classes can cover them. However I talked about the deep physical meaning which isn't taught in just a basic class. To understand it you have to study a lot of other things, like for instance quantum physics.

Most of the optimization in nuclear reactors are seen in advanced classes because they rely on principles beyond plain thermodynamics, and so is cooling something with an exotic state of the matter.

Heat transfers aren't done in basic thermodynamics classes, you don't learn non stationary conduction and convection, and radiation transfers without a bit of baggage. (Unless you butcher the mathematics part  )

Anyhow, just by curiosity, what does a nuclear engineer/researcher do?

Well actually I do, and knowing those inner truths (and the fundamental origins of quantum mechanics, which is as I said u-grad level work for a NE) is not actually that complicated.

 

Not that I doubt you have your own field of expertise, but "advanced work" in nuclear reactors (fission anyways, plasma sciences are almost exclusively grad level) is expected from ugrads here. Mastery of thermo-hydraulics and statistical QM is explicitly required from our u-grad program here. Our biggest shortfall is most ugrads here have very little macro-material expertise (p-chem type stuff), which was/is one of the things I am addressing with my work (and all the fellows I work with) who sit on the intersection between material science and nuclear engineering.

 

I particularly do work on radiation damage in metals (modeling, and experimentation), and supercritical co2 corrosion (of metals and composites, experimental only). 

 

I'm not a PhD, but a PhD candidate. I do have a MS and BS in the field however, and have worked on advanced reactor systems previously.

[Beskamir]

Somehow I feel as though the amount of energy that this will require to operate will make it unpractical for regular computers.

[laminutederire]

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Well actually I do, and knowing those inner truths (and the fundamental origins of quantum mechanics, which is as I said u-grad level work for a NE) is not actually that complicated.

 

Not that I doubt you have your own field of expertise, but "advanced work" in nuclear reactors is expected from ugrads here. Mastery of thermo-hydraulics and statistical QM is explicitly required from our u-grad program here. Our biggest shortfall is most ugrads here have very little macro-material expertise (p-chem type stuff), which was/is one of the things I am addressing with my work (and all the fellows I work with) who sit on the intersection between material science and nuclear engineering.

 

I particularly do work on radiation damage in metals (modeling, and experimentation), and supercritical co2 corrosion (of metals and composites, experimental only). 

 

I'm not a PhD, but a PhD candidate. I do have a MS and BS in the field however, and have worked on advanced reactor systems previously.

Well I'm a graduate program, but I'm only through it at the Bachelor level, going to have an equivalent of a master's degree in two years, so we have done the same thing that you did I guess

It isn't complicated but it's lights ahead high school basic classes

(My expertise is weird since it is knowing things on every field)

 

Oh yeah like hardware designer (vlsi design etc) have no expertise in material science?

Good luck on the PhD then