shared flat best solution

[hearthofsin]

hey LTT forums
so i was wondering since i'll be moving into a shared flat soon i would like to know what the best wifi solution would be.
There is the catch that max speeds in the area first off is 20/20. 
but i was wondering. if we setup multiple acces points how would it split the 20/20 connection? because i was thinking that maybe i could setup 2 routers (so one for each) where one would be dedicated for me and the other would be dedicated for my roommate. i have one 5 ghz (and 2.4 compatible ofcourse) router that i would setup for myself and my less craving roommate would get a 2.4 ghz router connection.
so here is the real question, how will it split the 20/20 connection between to wireless access points? 

also what would be a better solution if this is like.. stupid  wifi range extenders? powerline adapters like the tp-link av500's? 
NOTE that it is not gonna be a possibility to run a cable through the walls or through the house. it is not going to happen even tho i would love that because it would be ideal.. 
also i've always run my desktop on a wired connection and just had basic wifi for stuff like my laptop and smartphone so i'm indeed very much a noob when it comes to this topic and that is why i'm searching for help here.

[Djole123]

Actually the best WiFi solution is to go to your mobile carrier and get a 4G data plan.

[Oshino Shinobu]

It doesn't really split the connection. It's not like 10/10 is assigned to one AP and the other 10/10 to the other one. The distributing will change, depending on the usage at the time. If QoS is setup, you can prioritise certain types of traffic. 

 

Having multiple routers on a network can cause issues, or at least be somewhat of a pain for home networks. Just having access points around the place to get good wifi coverage is the best option. You may just have to negotiate some rules for usage with your room-mate. What they are is up to you (and your room-mate), but I'd expect something like no downloading large files while the other is doing something that requires a decent amount of bandwidth. 

If you really wanted to, you could get two lines in and just have one each so you both get 20/20 to yourself. It would obviously cost more, though. 

If you're really wanting to split the network 50/50 and don't have any need for fast local transfers (over Wifi), you could get a switch that allows you to modify the speeds of the ports, then each have an access point connected to ports limited to 10Mbps so you're both limited to 10Mbps. This also allows for you to have your PC connected at full speed if your room-mate is okay with it. 

[hearthofsin]

5 minutes ago, Djole123 said:

Actually the best WiFi solution is to go to your mobile carrier and get a 4G data plan.

sounds expensive AF tho...  
and it also sounds unreliable. 

[hearthofsin]

22 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

It doesn't really split the connection. It's not like 10/10 is assigned to one AP and the other 10/10 to the other one. The distributing will change, depending on the usage at the time. If QoS is setup, you can prioritise certain types of traffic. 

 

Having multiple routers on a network can cause issues, or at least be somewhat of a pain for home networks. Just having access points around the place to get good wifi coverage is the best option. You may just have to negotiate some rules for usage with your room-mate. What they are is up to you (and your room-mate), but I'd expect something like no downloading large files while the other is doing something that requires a decent amount of bandwidth. 

If you really wanted to, you could get two lines in and just have one each so you both get 20/20 to yourself. It would obviously cost more, though. 

If you're really wanting to split the network 50/50 and don't have any need for fast local transfers (over Wifi), you could get a switch that allows you to modify the speeds of the ports, then each have an access point connected to ports limited to 10Mbps so you're both limited to 10Mbps. This also allows for you to have your PC connected at full speed if your room-mate is okay with it. 

thanks for the answer i very much appreciate it. 

okay can you explain what problems might come with having to wireless routers on one network? i would split it through a switch after all and they should have different ips so i thought it would be better than sharing a single connection? 
''just having access points around the place'' care to elaborate?
 

two lines MIGHT be a solution but right now it seems unecessary and costly so we'll see how sharing one 20/20 connection goes and then maybe we will later get two lines.

[Oshino Shinobu]

24 minutes ago, hearthofsin said:

thanks for the answer i very much appreciate it. 

okay can you explain what problems might come with having to wireless routers on one network? i would split it through a switch after all and they should have different ips so i thought it would be better than sharing a single connection? 
''just having access points around the place'' care to elaborate?
 

two lines MIGHT be a solution but right now it seems unecessary and costly so we'll see how sharing one 20/20 connection goes and then maybe we will later get two lines.

The issue you have with multiple routers is that you can't simply go modem > switch > 2x routers without a line in that has multiple WAN IP addresses. If you have a home connection, you don't have this capability. You'd have to go modem > router > router/switch. Then you have an issue of potential DHCP, NAT, DNS and routing conflicts as both routers tend to compete. Port forwarding also gets buggy and complicated with this setup. 

Having one router, then different access points with different SSIDs could separate the network a little, but the network is still being shared, you're just connecting to different wireless hotspots. 

 

What I meant by having access points around the place is just to have access points (require a cable to be run, just so you know) in places where you need Wifi coverage. Then you will have to negotiate with your room-mate for the rules of use.

 

It really depends if you want a network restriction to split the network, or just a logical way so you each can manage your own parts, but still have to negotiate about usage. The network restrictions work to forcefully limit you and your room-mate so you can't hog the bandwidth, but it also means that you're limited to 10/10, even if your room-mate is out. There are some ways to actually manage the use of networks and assign bandwidth allowances based on time and devices, but it can get expensive and complicated, often involving managed switches and a new expensive router, or one that can run DD-WRT.  

[EmeraldFlame]

5 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The issue you have with multiple routers is that you can't simply go modem > switch > 2x routers without a line in that has multiple WAN IP addresses. If you have a home connection, you don't have this capability. You'd have to go modem > router > router/switch. Then you have an issue of potential DHCP, NAT, DNS and routing conflicts as both routers tend to compete. Port forwarding also gets buggy and complicated with this setup. 

While this is true, every consumer grade router is going to have the option to turn off DHCP and just go into Acess Point mode. Literally just flipping a toggle switch in the software.

If he finds a deal on routers cheap somewhere, it'll work fine. Just needs to turn of DHCP. Heck quite a few consumer routers I've worked with recently automatically turn off DHCP when you plug them into a network through the LAN ports instead of the WAN.

[hearthofsin]

2 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The issue you have with multiple routers is that you can't simply go modem > switch > 2x routers without a line in that has multiple WAN IP addresses. If you have a home connection, you don't have this capability. You'd have to go modem > router > router/switch. Then you have an issue of potential DHCP, NAT, DNS and routing conflicts as both routers tend to compete. Port forwarding also gets buggy and complicated with this setup. 

Having one router, then different access points with different SSIDs could separate the network a little, but the network is still being shared, you're just connecting to different wireless hotspots. 

 

What I meant by having access points around the place is just to have access points (require a cable to be run, just so you know) in places where you need Wifi coverage. Then you will have to negotiate with your room-mate for the rules of use. It really depends if you want a network restriction to split the network, or just a logical way so you each can manage your own parts, but still have to negotiate about usage. The network restrictions work to forcefully limit you and your room-mate so you can't hog the bandwidth, but it also means that you're limited to 10/10, even if your room-mate is out. 

alright again thanks for the answer man.

but how do i get the most out of the internet we have? again without running a cable. as mentioned earlier would tp link av500's be a good solution to get some fast networking to my desktop? or would a wifi extender be better, you know one of those that recives the signal from the wireless access point and the extender connects via ethernet to my desktop. or is there any other solution to make sure the internet is as stable as can be, because i do have experience with wifi being a bit unstable.

[Oshino Shinobu]

1 minute ago, EmeraldFlame said:

While this is true, every consumer grade router is going to have the option to turn off DHCP and just go into Acess Point mode. Literally just flipping a toggle switch in the software.

If he finds a deal on routers cheap somewhere, it'll work fine. Just needs to turn of DHCP. Heck quite a few consumer routers I've worked with recently automatically turn off DHCP when you plug them into a network through the LAN ports instead of the WAN.

True, but it defeats the point (in what he seems to be thinking) of having multiple routers on a network. At that point, may as well just buy a dedicated access point that is purposed designed. 

 

 

[Oshino Shinobu]

4 minutes ago, hearthofsin said:

alright again thanks for the answer man.

but how do i get the most out of the internet we have? again without running a cable. as mentioned earlier would tp link av500's be a good solution to get some fast networking to my desktop? or would a wifi extender be better, you know one of those that recives the signal from the wireless access point and the extender connects via ethernet to my desktop. or is there any other solution to make sure the internet is as stable as can be, because i do have experience with wifi being a bit unstable.

The performance of powerline depends on the wiring in the building. In relatively new buildings, it will normally be faster and more stable than WiFi. I would advise trying out powerline first to see how the speeds are. Most likely, it will be more than enough for a 20/20 connection, but may leave something to be desired for local transfers. 

[hearthofsin]

2 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The performance of powerline depends on the wiring in the building. In relatively new buildings, it will normally be faster and more stable than WiFi. I would advise trying out powerline first to see how the speeds are. Most likely, it will be more than enough for a 20/20 connection, but may leave something to be desired for local transfers. 

alright maybe i will try it out then. 

 

11 minutes ago, EmeraldFlame said:

While this is true, every consumer grade router is going to have the option to turn off DHCP and just go into Acess Point mode. Literally just flipping a toggle switch in the software.

If he finds a deal on routers cheap somewhere, it'll work fine. Just needs to turn of DHCP. Heck quite a few consumer routers I've worked with recently automatically turn off DHCP when you plug them into a network through the LAN ports instead of the WAN.

 

10 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

True, but it defeats the point (in what he seems to be thinking) of having multiple routers on a network. At that point, may as well just buy a dedicated access point that is purposed designed. 

 

 

i literally have no idea what you guys are saying right now haha 
i might have to do a lot more research than i thought. 

''a dedicated access point that is purposed designed'' as in a good wireless access point? i do have a router that have pleased me for many years now. the connection on it has been great even in apartments but it is running old. it is a D-link DIR-855, old but gold  

[mcraftax]

2 hours ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

10Mbps

just use some cat3 cable to the aps, that will do it.  jk

[Razor512]

In your case, the best solution would be a 3 router setup, with the main one performing some QOS to ensure that under full load, the data is split evenly, but during periods of less load, 1 router can use all of the data if needed.

 

With this setup, you will be dealing with a double NAT, but you will at least be able to avoid having a hard limit on your speed, e.g., if you are the only one home, it is more efficient for you to simply use the full throughput of the connection, but when the other person living there comes back and decides to begin creating their own personal offline archive of Google's servers, they will not be able to take more than half.

 

The 3 router setup is design for enforcing a 50% split, as it is not easy to do that on a per client basis if you are dealing with more than 2 devices (as long as the QOS settings of the main router allows you to specify a minimum and maximum throughput.

 

You also get the security benefit of a double NAT (if the other person in the home decides to install a ton of malware and ransomware, it will not be able to reach into your PC or your NAS behind your router and encrypt your data.

[skywake]

@hearthofsin

I'm going to suggest you get something that's suggested here a lot but it's for good reason. If you get a Ubiquiti Access Point you can limit the bandwidth available to some users and not others. For example if there's an agreement that each of you will only get 10Mbps? Limit it to 10Mbps. Of course the only issue with this solution is that you can bypass it by connecting multiple devices at once. All of them will be limited but if you have two hammering it? They'll use the full 20Mbps. But it's a simple solution and it'd be very easy to setup.

 

Maybe set up two SSIDs, one limited and the other not. Make it so the unlimited one can only be used for shared devices like the TV and whatever. Then the second SSID should be used for everyone's personal devices. How would you stop them from connecting to the unlimited SSID? Well, it tells you who's connected to what. You can manage it. You can assign stuff to be limited manually.

[brwainer]

Don't use powerline in apartment complexes. You have no way of knowing how the wiring in the complex was set up, and it is possible that a powerline adaptor in a different flat will become part of the same network as your powerline adaptors.

[hearthofsin]

20 hours ago, brwainer said:

Don't use powerline in apartment complexes. You have no way of knowing how the wiring in the complex was set up, and it is possible that a powerline adaptor in a different flat will become part of the same network as your powerline adaptors.

well yes that is true but this is a house so it should work pretty well hopefully 

[brwainer]

1 hour ago, hearthofsin said:

well yes that is true but this is a house so it should work pretty well hopefully 

The title says Shared Flat soI figured it meant a single flat in a big building or complex.