AMD Zen 8 core engineering sample runs at 3GHz

[Mr.Meerkat]

5 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

But if it somehow flops--hopefully it crashes and burns as hard as it possibly can, so their divisions can split to Intel and nVidia and we can get some real competition.

emmmmm...that's bad...simply because AMD is the ONLY competitor against Nvidia and Intel in the PC segment...There's no other company that's competing against Nvidia and Intel plus Nvidia makes GPUs while intel makes CPUs which means they aren't competing against each other anyway...

[ivan134]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Um, you do realize that if AMD goes down then we are limited to 1 major CPU developer and 1 major GPU developer, right?   So, that means that Intel and Nvidia would be left up to pricing which means prices for an i3 could cost as much as an i7 does now.  And, that a x50 could cost as much as a x80 does now.  You really don't want AMD to go down because that means prices on CPUs and GPUs will most likely go up due to a lack of competition.

 

3 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

emmmmm...that's bad...simply because AMD is the ONLY competitor against Nvidia and Intel in the PC segment...There's no other company that's competing against Nvidia and Intel plus Nvidia makes GPUs while intel makes CPUs which means they aren't competing against each other anyway...

You should learn to ignore people who own stocks in Intel and Nvidia.

[Sakkura]

48 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Then came the 9xxx series, for overclockers, which was kinda a mistake.  The 8320=9370 & 8350=9590 just factory OCed.  On one hand you're getting more speed, but on the other hand they did kinda wasted money on that.  The 9xxx chips were nice for their target, and ya I did buy one, but at the same time they lost more money on that than they made for "higher clock speeds".

Why are you pairing them up like that, they're all the same die and the same family. 8320 = 8350 = 9370 = 9590 in terms of manufacturing.

[SurvivorNVL]

9 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Um, you do realize that if AMD goes down then we are limited to 1 major CPU developer and 1 major GPU developer, right?   So, that means that Intel and Nvidia would be left up to pricing which means prices for an i3 could cost as much as an i7 does now.  And, that a x50 could cost as much as a x80 does now.  You really don't want AMD to go down because that means prices on CPUs and GPUs will most likely go up due to a lack of competition.

 

8 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

emmmmm...that's bad...simply because AMD is the ONLY competitor against Nvidia and Intel in the PC segment...There's no other company that's competing against Nvidia and Intel plus Nvidia makes GPUs while intel makes CPUs which means they aren't competing against each other anyway...

If AMD were to die, Intel would likely snatch up RTG because they've been dying to be involved in the dGPU market for quite some time now.  2008-ish, if I recall.  As for nVidia, they've been trying to get x86 emulation running, and did successfully with Denver, and would more than love a chance to jump in to x86.  Intel takes over RTG if AMD dies, and they get all the graphics IPs they would so crave.  nVidia takes over the AMD CPU division, buying it out, grabbing patents, and taking hold of AMD64, negotiates for X86 from Intel, and bam - now we have competition between two companies with large surpluses of money.

Edit:  Also if they abuse their positions and hike prices--they are subject to monopoly charges, and can be hit with massive fines.  They'd likely barely alter the prices to not be hit with those fees, or even reduce them to protect themselves and their new monopoly status.

[Mr.Meerkat]

3 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

You should learn to ignore people who own stocks in Intel and Nvidia.

This is basic business, if there's no competitors, the company is able to charge however much which means if AMD goes bankrupt or whatever, Intel and Nvidia's only competitor is gone (in the PC market segment) which means they can charge as much as they want.

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Zen can't come soon enough.

 

I am trying not to get my hopes but, but I really want them to succeed. Hopefully the release chips will be clocked higher than 3GHz. It would suck if AMD managed to boost their IPC by 40% just to have it ruined by low clocks.

3GHz, 8 cores + HT and around Haswell IPC...

5960X -> 3GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo, 8 Cores + HT  ---> 140w TDP....

 

yeah well... if AMD can manage to produce a 5960X equivalent with 95w TDP they will have quite the chip.

[Mr.Meerkat]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

3GHz, 8 cores + HT and around Haswell IPC...

5960X -> 3GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo, 8 Cores + HT  ---> 140w TDP....

 

yeah well... if AMD can manage to produce a 5960X equivalent with 95w TDP they will have quite the chip.

And I would presume they won't be charging $1000 for it so it would actually force intel to price their higher end chips better  

[DocSwag]

Everyone is complaining "It's only 3 ghz!"

 

1. Ghz isn't everything if Zen has really high ipc I'll take 3 ghz.

2. If you go to the original bitsandchip article they mention this is a very early engineering sample and that the final zen 8 core will probably have around 3.7 ghz turbo to 4 ghz, and if 14nm is better than expected 4 ghz-4.2/4.3. It's just like how bulldozer engineering samples were originally 2.8 ghz but in retail were higher. You gotta read guys!

Dont believe me? Here you go:

Quote

First of all, A0 samples of 8 cores Zen exist, and it seems that AMD has already delivered them to its partners for the preliminary tests. The base frequency seems to be very high (3 GHz, Turbo still not enable with these ES) for a high end 8 cores CPU, also produced on a new node like the 14nm LPP FinFET of Samsung/GloFo (The first ES of Bulldozer worked at 2,8 GHz). It is a promising start.

Quote

 

If 14nm LPP will be good, Zen base frequency (8 cores version, TDP 95W) will be 3.7-3.8 GHz. Turbo 4.1-4.2 GHz. If 14nm LPP will be very good (or if AMD will commercialize a limited edition, like the Athlon Slot A 1GHz during the good old times), Zen will have a base frequency of 4 GHz (Turbo 4.2-4.3 GHz). Also, the overclockers will have a lot of fun, because of the soldered IHS!

 

[SurvivorNVL]

7 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

 

You should learn to ignore people who own stocks in Intel and Nvidia.

Oh, yes they would.  It would grow exponentially draining on them.  They'd definitely end up gobbling the remains of AMD and going for the kill against one another, especially if AMD dies in fair competition which they have been for some time now.  it's a win for consumers if it all happens as Intel armed with the ability to produce powerful dGPU's, and nVidia with the new found capability to make actual CPUs - they'd be in an arms-race to supplant the other in their respective markets.

[Mr.Meerkat]

Just now, SurvivorNVL said:

Oh, yes they would.  It would grow exponentially draining on them.  They'd definitely end up gobbling the remains of AMD and going for the kill against one another, especially if AMD dies in fair competition which they have been for some time now.  it's a win for consumers if it all happens as Intel armed with the ability to produce powerful dGPU's, and nVidia with the new found capability to make actual CPUs - they'd be in an arms-race to supplant the other in their respective markets.

If amd does go down, no matter what happens, prices are going to increase, Nvidia isn't going to be able to make/create a CPU in a month time that's going to beat intel chips and also, there's also the time it's going to take while Nvidia, intel, arm, qualcomm ect. fighting for all of the patents and in the worst case senario, what happens if Nvidia doesn't get the CPU patents or intel doesn't get the GPU patents? There will be no competition.

[SurvivorNVL]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

If amd does go down, no matter what happens, prices are going to increase, Nvidia isn't going to be able to make/create a CPU in a month time that's going to beat intel chips and also, there's also the time it's going to take while Nvidia, intel, arm, qualcomm ect. fighting for all of the patents and in the worst case senario, what happens if Nvidia doesn't get the CPU patents or intel doesn't get the GPU patents? There will be no competition.

Those patents will go up in the air, and they're the only two who would be going after them in a hurry, unless Apple were to buyout AMD, and then we'd something even scarier.  As for the time -- we've not had any form of competition from AMD on the CPU front in years, and Intel prices have remained relatively the same, if not improved given the deal that the 5820k is in America compared to the 4790k and 6700k.  nVidia above all merely needs to bid for AMD64 to negotiate for an x86 license with Intel.  It will of course take time for nVidia to build up and design their architecture to compete with Intel, but then we'd just have another situation like we've had now for the last four or more years.  

[Mr.Meerkat]

5 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Those patents will go up in the air, and they're the only two who would be going after them in a hurry, unless Apple were to buyout AMD, and then we'd something even scarier.  As for the time -- we've not had any form of competition from AMD on the CPU front in years, and Intel prices have remained relatively the same, if not improved given the deal that the 5820k is in America compared to the 4790k and 6700k.  nVidia above all merely needs to bid for AMD64 to negotiate for an x86 license with Intel.  It will of course take time for nVidia to build up and design their architecture to compete with Intel, but then we'd just have another situation like we've had now for the last four or more years.  

To be honest, I much rather have Apple or Microsoft completely buyout AMD as that way, AMD will still be competing against Intel and Nvidia while being funded by a company that has more money than Intel and Nvidia combined...

[ivan134]

Yes, the companies who got to the point they are at today using underhanded tactics and who still screw over the consumers today will compete fairly to the benefit of the consumer when they're the only 2 left. That's a pretty funny joke.

[SurvivorNVL]

Just now, Mr.Meerkat said:

To be honest, I much rather have Apple or Microsoft completely buyout AMD as that way, AMD will still be competing against Intel and Nvidia while being funded by a company that has more money than Intel and Nvidia combined...

I've been hoping Apple would purchase them.  The surplus of money they have, the buyout announcement would drive AMD stock through the roof, and Apple would just lay down the law when it comes to negotiating with Intel when it comes to getting an x86 license in return for AMD64--unless Intel decided to try and re-roll itanium in to the world.  

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, Agost said:

Yes, but current Skylake i3s are clocked 1 GHz higher.

So we could expect higher frequencies on this 8 core Zen CPU... or we could not. That's nothing but speculation.

A couple of them. And this is a 95W TDP. AMD is not going to beat Intel at engineering, especially as efficient as Broadwell is.

[patrickjp93]

28 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

I've been hoping Apple would purchase them.  The surplus of money they have, the buyout announcement would drive AMD stock through the roof, and Apple would just lay down the law when it comes to negotiating with Intel when it comes to getting an x86 license in return for AMD64--unless Intel decided to try and re-roll itanium in to the world.  

No, it would be the end of competition in both industries. Apple would just internalize all the IP. Microsoft would force hardware-software bundles and also start limiting even professional software licenses to per-core. It would be toxic. Give the CPU division to Nvidia and RTG to Intel and let's move on in a more sane world.

[Trixanity]

Stop idealizing a bilateral market. It won't happen and if it did, it would be awful (except for the stock prices, which would make some people on this forum very rich). 

 

Nothing good can come from it. Few powerful players in a market has been done before: it sucks. And you know it will. 

[Humbug]

17 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Give the CPU division to Nvidia and RTG to Intel and let's move on in a more sane world.

Radeon Technology Group armed with Intel's fabrication advantage and intel's money I think would mean Nvidia will really struggle in the discrete GPU space.

[goodtofufriday]

I thought the internet was past judging CPUs by their GHz??? Jeez, no one ever learns. 

[ivan134]

14 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Stop idealizing a bilateral market. It won't happen and if it did, it would be awful (except for the stock prices, which would make some people on this forum very rich). 

 

Nothing good can come from it. Few powerful players in a market has been done before: it sucks. And you know it will. 

Watchu talkin bout? I mean look at Apple and Samsung. How is a race towards the thinnest phone not in the best interest of the consumer?

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

3GHz, 8 cores + HT and around Haswell IPC...

5960X -> 3GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo, 8 Cores + HT  ---> 140w TDP....

 

yeah well... if AMD can manage to produce a 5960X equivalent with 95w TDP they will have quite the chip.

That might be the biggest IF in the history of mankind, considering AMD's previous CPU track record.

I would not bet money on a 3GHz, 8 core Zen chip performing as well as a 5960X, and that chip will be more than 2 years old when Zen comes out.

[Prysin]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That might be the biggest IF in the history of mankind, considering AMD's previous CPU track record.

I would not bet money on a 3GHz, 8 core Zen chip performing as well as a 5960X, and that chip will be more than 2 years old when Zen comes out.

5960X is 22nm... so its not impossible, just highly improbable

[Humbug]

18 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

I thought the internet was past judging CPUs by their GHz??? Jeez, no one ever learns. 

they told us to expect 40% better ipc than excavator.

how much absolute performance we get is a factor of both ipc and clockspeed

so it does matter, it just doesn't matter when you look at it in isolation

[patrickjp93]

49 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Stop idealizing a bilateral market. It won't happen and if it did, it would be awful (except for the stock prices, which would make some people on this forum very rich). 

 

Nothing good can come from it. Few powerful players in a market has been done before: it sucks. And you know it will. 

That's only when those few powerful players cooperate. Intel and Nvidia hate each other and would try their damn hardest to rip each other to pieces.

 

And it's the best thing for the industry. Intel releases tons of its patents every year. AMD and Nvidia don't. That's one huge reason the GPU market is so closed up. They're both incredible patent trolls. When was the last time you heard of Intel suing someone for the design of an instruction or circuit? It would be best for the market for AMD to step aside rather than just struggling along (which will continue in spite of any fan's delusions).

44 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

I thought the internet was past judging CPUs by their GHz??? Jeez, no one ever learns. 

In the era where software isn't evolving and SISD instructions are already optimized near to their theoretical lowest possible latencies, rating by GHz is MORE accurate than it was in the old days. If software starts evolving again, then sure, it goes away.

[MrDynamicMan]

3 hours ago, Humbug said:

I think it's a given that it won't clock like Vishera... which people regularly overclock to like 4.7Ghz.

 

But personally I am hoping that AMD can achieve about 3.7Ghz stock on the top end first gen Zen parts, hopefully overclocking to about 4.2Ghz.

I have a hunch they will Oc to about 4.2 and come stock in the ballpark of 3.4