Lawmakers pushing to make owning an unregistered prepaid phone illegal

[Nineshadow]

Quote

The bill is called the Pre-Paid Mobile Device Security Gap Act of 2016, and if it passes, anyone who purchases a prepaid cell phone will be forced to register their identity with their device. The proposed law is being pushed forward by Jackie Speier, a Democratic representative from California. Although proponents of the bill are touting it as a solution to close a “loophole” that is functioning as an “egregious gap in our legal framework” that aids criminals and terrorists, those against it are claiming that it is an unnecessary breach of personal privacy by the state. The bill was introduced earlier this week and has not yet been approved by the House Judiciary Committee. Whether or not it will gain momentum has yet to be determined.

If you think about it, the bill does have a point, even more so in the light of recent events. But there is a huge problem with it : criminals (and terrorists because that's what's fancy these days) will probably still be able to get burner phones. The bill will just end up hurting the average person's privacy, while developing a new market for "underground" phones for the people this bill is actually addressing. It does more harm than good.

 

Read more : http://www.androidauthority.com/bill-would-make-prepaid-phone-owners-register-682373/

Edited March 25, 2016 by Godlygamer23
Moved source.

[Firearm2112]

This is kinda useless. If I'm a criminal who smuggles 10,000 pounds of Coke from south america to the U.S. every week, I don't really give a shit if the government says my burner phones are illegal, since im already doing stuff thats way worse.

 

This is ignoring the real problem imo.

[Nineshadow]

2 minutes ago, Firearm2112 said:

This is kinda useless. If I'm a criminal who smuggles 10,000 pounds of Coke from south america to the U.S. every week, I don't really give a shit if the government says my burner phones are illegal, since im already doing stuff thats way worse.

 

This is ignoring the real problem imo.

I don't think they are ignoring the real problem. I mean , they definitely know that there is a problem and they know what that problem is. The thing is, their proposed "solution" just doesn't do anything to solve it.

[Coaxialgamer]

That bill won't have any impact on criminal activity

[Aytex]

this is bullshit, i hope it never goes through

[Stuff_]

This is fine. A lot of countries already have this in place. There's no issue with registering a pre-paid phone. Unless you are doing something bad/illegal. Which is the point of this bill.

 

Also people will complain about this bill, however they don't even have a pre-paid device. Anything the government does to try and curb terrorism, illegal activity, etc, is frowned upon by the general public because of their ignorance.

 

 

[Lord-Anubis]

2 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

That bill won't have any impact on criminal activity

California State Legislature doesn't really care if it will affect criminal activity. They're too busy trying to register, regulate, and ban anything they can think of, regardless of constitutionality or how much it will cost. If you challenge their law, they'll tie it up in every court all the way up to the Supreme Court.

They think that passing a crap ton of laws means they are going to get more votes.

[bob345]

All this will do is hurt normal consumers as if people are required to use a phone that is registered with a cell company, that company now can increase prices as much. Look at the cable industry and how cable companies basically are basically running monopolies. It will be the same for cellphones if this kind of thing goes into law.

[Serin]

How about a network that only allows registered phones to connect and make transmissions? 

[Nineshadow]

8 minutes ago, Stuff_ said:

This is fine. A lot of countries already have this in place. There's no issue with registering a pre-paid phone. Unless you are doing something bad/illegal. Which is the point of this bill.

 

Also people will complain about this bill, however they don't even have a pre-paid device. Anything the government does to try and curb terrorism, illegal activity, etc, is frowned upon by the general public because of their ignorance.

 

 

Yeah , a lot of countries have this in place, but criminals can still get burner phones, can't they? It mostly affects the low-time criminals, but in their case a burner phone is probably one of the last of their worries.

I'm not saying it's bad, it just doesn't achieve much. And the cost of this achievement is not too much either. Registering a pre-paid phone is not too much of a deal.

It seems a bit pointless to me.

[GoodBytes]

When you are contract, you are already registered.  The mass majority of people in the U.S, and even in Canada, are on contract for their phone, unlike the rest of the world who prefer pre-paid (which also boost competition, as people can switch every month or even week, providers as they feel like. Their number remains the same. And hence why they have usually better service and/or cheaper price than here in Canada and U.S). So I don't think it affects many.

 

Most criminals and terrorist seems to never encrypt their phone, but go with burner phones. So this won't prevent much, but it will just make it a bit harder for them to operate.

[SparkyRain]

Important things first. What will it cost to register? Bet not free. And there goes another fee on top of import taxes for cheap smartphones. And on top of that this is bs.

 

Almost every new phone if not all are smartphones. I'm already logged into some kind of service if I use it. They know exactly who I am if they want to. Now what's the need to register since they can pinpoint any phone to its exact location with a simple appointment form.

[GoodBytes]

7 minutes ago, SparkyRain said:

Important things first. What will it cost to register? Bet not free. And there goes another fee on top of import taxes for cheap smartphones. And on top of that this is bs.

 

Almost every new phone if not all are smartphones. I'm already logged into some kind of service if I use it. They know exactly who I am if they want to. Now what's the need to register since they can pinpoint any phone to its exact location with a simple appointment form.

By register I think they mean, the service provider has your name on file.

You see, here, if I buy a phone fully unlocked from a store (say I order the MotoG from Motorola website), I can put any pre-paid SIM card in, and off I go doing calls. The phone will tell you your phone number. No one knows what person is associated to that number.

 

If you are on contract your name and address  is on file on your provider system (they need it, to send your bill)  or what this bill proposes, is that if you get a new SIM card, you need to call your provider to register, and they'll ask your name (and possibly address). OR (and probably) you need to go a phone provider store to get your SIM card, where they'll ask you ID and your name, and address so that they can activate the SIM card. Again, it can be spoofed, like anything, but makes it harder.

 

[Whorax]

47 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

there is a huge problem with it : criminals (and terrorists because that's what's fancy these days) will probably still be able to get burner phones. The bill will just end up hurting the average person's privacy, while developing a new market for "underground" phones for the people this bill is actually addressing. It does more harm than good.

Well I'll be damned. This is exactly what I say when libtards say they want to get rid of assault and semi automatic rifles.

[SparkyRain]

9 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

-

 

Not new for paid phones and the id shouldn't be so concerning. Have the same with isp and yet from some court outcomes in eu: That a registered user can't be held responsible for the registered endpoint. 

 

Say my brother parcipates illegal downloads with my wifi I'm not responsible in court for his doings. Now how would that apply to phones? If anyone is registered to a sim card and that sim is used for a carbomb are I'm responsible for that sim or is it the one who somehow used it at that point in time?

 

Sounds about hilarous if my phone got stolen or from a grandma and that old lady will be brought to court for parcipating terrorismn?

[suicidalfranco]

36 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

When you are contract, you are already registered.  The mass majority of people in the U.S, and even in Canada, are on contract for their phone, unlike the rest of the world who prefer pre-paid (which also boost competition, as people can switch every month or even week, providers as they feel like. Their number remains the same. And hence why they have usually better service and/or cheaper price than here in Canada and U.S). So I don't think it affects many.

 

Most criminals and terrorist seems to never encrypt their phone, but go with burner phones. So this won't prevent much, but it will just make it a bit harder for them to operate.

that's me alright, going from one carrier to another as soon as someone releases a lower priced promotion

[CommandMan7]

Once something becomes inconvenient for the government it suddenly becomes illegal. Seems typical. 

 

But for real, although phones do support a lot of crime, this bill's flaw is that it apparently ignores the fact that there's this thing called the internet where people can go communicate anonymously. If anything, this will make it harder on law enforcement, as the government doesn't nearly have as much control of the internet as it has over phone records.

[thekeemo]

So just get used phones?

[Fetzie]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

By register I think they mean, the service provider has your name on file.

You see, here, if I buy a phone fully unlocked from a store (say I order the MotoG from Motorola website), I can put any pre-paid SIM card in, and off I go doing calls. The phone will tell you your phone number. No one knows what person is associated to that number.

 

If you are on contract your name and address  is on file on your provider system (they need it, to send your bill)  or what this bill proposes, is that if you get a new SIM card, you need to call your provider to register, and they'll ask your name (and possibly address). OR (and probably) you need to go a phone provider store to get your SIM card, where they'll ask you ID and your name, and address so that they can activate the SIM card. Again, it can be spoofed, like anything, but makes it harder.

 

The phone number is usually tied to the SIM, not to the phone. I've used my pre-paid SIM in over half a dozen phones so far and my cell phone number hasn't changed in nearly a decade (I just pull the SIM out of the phone and put it in the new one). The SIM is registered in my name with, in my case, Vodafone. That's how it works in Germany, anyway.

[AresKrieger]

Getting a burner phone won't get harder due to a pointless law like this, plus you can always contact people via encrypted  internet channels or apps so even if it eliminated burner phones (which it won't) that wouldn't really affect anything. 

 

If they want to crack down on terrorism do these 3 things

1. Make a psych evaluation mandatory for entry into the US via visa, or immigration etc (it doesn't have to be a formal eval though just more indept interview than asking just are you here for buisiness or pleasure)

2. Listen to warnings from other countries, generally when someone tells you a person entering your country is dangerous you might want to listen (this would have prevented the boston bombing and this most recent brussles attack)

3. Monitor recruitment sites/ twitter accounts more, if your surveillance is only on people whom are reasonably suspicious (aka directly advocating terrorism or something) and their associates most people will not get annoyed with your spy programs it's when laws let the government sift through everything people become uneasy about the surveillance

 

Granted this doesn't make everyone 100% safe but it's a start, and will not have much if any backlash, well except for maybe #1 but I think some sort of interview is necessary to weed out extremists from "normal" people.

[Trik'Stari]

99% of the population are not terrorists.

 

Congress can suck my/our collective dicks.

[Misanthrope]

Why? It could be just as cars: its legal to own them but illegal to use them without registering them. If it's about control then you have to register with a cellphone company to use em, meaning at most you could ask more than just cash for you to get a prepaid chip to make calls, some sort of system that even for prepaid you have to give a name and id.

 

That's what they did here in Mexico, you can just "buy" prepaid phones and chips but you're required to register them with your actual name and info to avoid criminals (mainly drug cartels and kidnapper groups and such) to use cellphones freely and untraceable.

[Lord-Anubis]

If you have nothing to hide, then why should you care?

Just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I should let someone put a tag and a leash on me.

[handymanshandle]

52 minutes ago, Whorax said:

Well I'll be damned. This is exactly what I say when libtards say they want to get rid of assault and semi automatic rifles.

While I see myself as something along the lines of a Democratic Socialist, I do think trying to ban something isn't going to (generally) solve the issue, it just makes it either impossible or harder for people who were going to do things legally.

 

I'm not a huge fan of guns, but hey if that's what makes you feel safe, or if you're just target shooting for leisure that's cool too. Personally I find Archery more fascinating than firearms but to each their own as it really should be.

 

Gun related deaths are sort of a public health issues, but the guns are the tool not the subject doing the killing it's sort of like an assistant but not the actual criminal. While I don't totally understand why one would need "assault" or semi-automatic rifles for hunting, target practice or self defense, I don't think that they should be totally prohibited. 

As far as registering prepaid phones to prevent terrorism/crimes, it doesn't totally fix the problem it just ends up causing more problems than it creates. 

@AresKrieger That might work, I do think that it's important to be certain that someone who is seeking refugee isn't going to pose a threat to the people of that nation that person is seeking refugee in. 

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Why? It could be just as cars: its legal to own them but illegal to use them without registering them. If it's about control then you have to register with a cellphone company to use em, meaning at most you could ask more than just cash for you to get a prepaid chip to make calls, some sort of system that even for prepaid you have to give a name and id.

 

That's what they did here in Mexico, you can just "buy" prepaid phones and chips but you're required to register them with your actual name and info to avoid criminals (mainly drug cartels and kidnapper groups and such) to use cellphones freely and untraceable.

In the context of "Mexico", that requirement is entirely laughable. No offense.

 

Have an underling register it, use it yourself, let him/her go to jail.