Tesla Model S owner fined for high emissions.

[CGurrell]

Um... Wut? That's the reaction I had when reading this headline. A man in Singapore applied for a tax rebate due to owning a Tesla Model S. The result of this process? He was fined the equivalent of just over US$10,000 (S$15,000) for owning a high-emissions vehicle.

 

Confused? Let me explain.

 

The Tesla Model S in question was rated by the Singaporean Government at 444 watt-hours per kilometer driven. With a grid emissions factor (pollution created when the electricity is generated by the national grid) of 0.5g CO2/Wh, the emissions of the car equate to 222g/km (444 x 0.5). This puts the car in the high-emissions "CEVS surcharge" band. 

 

Tesla have disputed this in a statement, claiming that they, and the Singaporean government on import, rated the car at 181 Wh/km, which results in emissions of 90(.5)g CO2/km, meaning the owner should be getting an incentive for owning a low-emissions car, instead of a fine for owning a high-emissions car.

 

This is a very odd situation in my opinion. We have an electric car that supposedly uses so much electricity, it's polluting more than most small petrol-powered cars, yet if we are to believe Tesla and the Singaporean Governments car import division, the car should be using less than half of the electricity the governments emissions division claims, meaning the man should get an incentive instead of a fine.

 

EDIT (Credit: dragoon20005): Tesla's full response is available here 

 

Source: http://www.eteknix.com/tesla-model-s-owner-singapore-receives-fine-emissions/

[ShadowCaptain]

whut the balls

[Moonzy]

i laughed at the title... typical SEA government i guess

[war4sure]

Singapore government apparently unable to comprehend how electric vehicle works

[Nineshadow]

They should fine themselves for making electricity with high emissions then. Ok , just kidding. This is pretty ridiculous.

[dragoon20005]

My country is a money sucking vampire

 

Land Transport Authority

 

"the bullshit is strong in this one"

 

Elon Musk called my country PM and ask about the fine

 

http://singapore.coconuts.co/2016/03/08/pm-lee-case-after-tesla-chief-elon-musk-calls-him-about-15k-surcharge

 

 

 

[dragoon20005]

Here is their statement

 

The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has been in discussion with Tesla on the recent case of an imported used Tesla Model S, which attracted a $15,000 surcharge under the Carbon Emissions Vehicle Scheme (CEVS).

All imported used cars, including used electric cars, have to be subject to emissions and fuel efficiency tests before they are allowed to be registered for use in Singapore. This is because the emissions and fuel efficiency of a used car, unlike a new car, can vary significantly depending on its prevailing condition, how it was previously driven and maintained, etc. The imported Model S was first registered in Hong Kong in 2014.

Based on tests run by VICOM Emission Test Laboratory (VeTL), Mr Nguyen’s used Model S had an electrical energy consumption of 444 Wh/km. An emissions factor of 0.5g CO2/Wh was then applied. This emissions factor, which is based on data provided by EMA, is consistently applied to electric and plug-in electric hybrid cars to account for the carbon emissions produced when the car is being charged. The outcome showed a carbon emissions level which placed this used car into the CEVS C3 surcharge band.

Electric cars are not carbon emissions free. They may not produce emissions from the tailpipe like conventional cars, but they take electrical power from the national power grid which has to burn fuel to produce the electricity, and in the process produces carbon emissions.

Tesla has informed LTA that based on the car’s original Certificate of Conformity, its energy consumption rating was 181 Wh/km when it left the Tesla factory on 28 June 2014. LTA confirms that a brand new Tesla Model S would thus have fallen into the CEVS A1 band, and enjoyed a rebate. However, Mr Nguyen did not bring in a new Tesla Model S, but a used car, and as is the policy for the import of all used cars, must be individually subject to emissions and fuel efficiency tests since LTA would not know how much the car’s condition might have deteriorated. We cannot make exceptions as it would not be fair to other car owners, and would have an impact on our environment-related policies.

LTA and VeTL will be working with Tesla engineers to look further into this case.

LTA welcomes electric vehicle manufacturers to bring clean and energy-efficient vehicles into Singapore. An EV model which was previously imported brand new into Singapore is the Peugeot Ion which enjoyed rebates in the CEVS A1 band.

[Sakkura]

8 minutes ago, war4sure said:

Singapore government apparently unable to comprehend how electric vehicle works

No? They're perfectly right in saying an electric vehicle creates emissions based on the electric power it uses. That ultimately comes from power plants making the electric power, and those will on average have significant emissions.

 

The only question here is who is right about how much is emitted.

[dragoon20005]

the car in question was imported as a second hand car with 1K miles on the odometer

 

a showroom brand new Tesla will average at 181Wh/km

 

but according to LTA's "test" it was drawing 444Wh/km and based on the power draw and carbon emission it was slapped with a 15K fine instead of the 30K rebate

[Ivyk]

1 minute ago, dragoon20005 said:

the car in question was imported as a second hand car with 1K miles on the odometer

 

a showroom brand new Tesla will average at 181Wh/km

 

but according to LTA's "test" it was drawing 444Wh/km and based on the power draw and carbon emission it was slapped with a 15K fine instead of the 30K rebate

How can a car that has only driver 1k miles have over twice the amount of emission?
Wouldn't surprise me if there was something wrong with that test.

[Sakkura]

Just now, Ivyk said:

How can a car that has only driver 1k miles have over twice the amount of emission?
Wouldn't surprise me if there was something wrong with that test.

Apparently the car was sold in 2014, so maybe its batteries degraded over time? Still seems like a surprisingly big drop, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

[dragoon20005]

Just now, Ivyk said:

How can a car that has only driver 1k miles have over twice the amount of emission?
Wouldn't surprise me if there was something wrong with that test.

yes it been a hot topic in my country and everyone is shooting our transport govt body down

 

which is why i say the bull shit is strong in this one

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, dragoon20005 said:

yes it been a hot topic in my country and everyone is shooting our transport govt body down

 

which is why i say the bull shit is strong in this one

Is there any actual evidence of their test being inaccurate?

[dragoon20005]

Just now, Sakkura said:

Is there any actual evidence of their test being inaccurate?

no evidence but they kept their stance that their test is based on UNECE standards

[dragoon20005]

it seems Tesla engineers may make a trip down here in Singapore to retest the car

 

https://www.teslamotors.com/support/heres-how-clean-model-s-singapore-and-elsewhere/?utm_campaign=Singapore_031016&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social

[CGurrell]

3 minutes ago, dragoon20005 said:

it seems Tesla engineers may make a trip down here in Singapore to retest the car

 

https://www.teslamotors.com/support/heres-how-clean-model-s-singapore-and-elsewhere/?utm_campaign=Singapore_031016&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social

Just added this to the top post and credited you.

[ImBleu]

Singapore being Singapore.

[dragoon20005]

4 minutes ago, ThatCoolBlueKidd said:

Singapore being Singapore.

that is not as bad as our neighbour

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/malaysian-pm-najib-razak-cleared-corruption-gift-saudi-royals

 

 

[ImBleu]

Just now, dragoon20005 said:

that is not as bad as our neighbour

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/malaysian-pm-najib-razak-cleared-corruption-gift-saudi-royals

 

 

 

I live in SEA, I know how bad our collective governments are

 

 

[xAcid9]

10 minutes ago, dragoon20005 said:

that is not as bad as our neighbour

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/malaysian-pm-najib-razak-cleared-corruption-gift-saudi-royals

 

 

I am proud. /s

 

[Sauron]

Mistakes were probably made in the second test, or the car got damaged. Still, it's a wake up call for those who think electric cars are somehow 0 emission vehicles.

[raphidy]

Makes sense for the carbon thing, it depends where you got you electricity. Also, more than double the difference. I hope it's not some bs results when the car detects that it is not in a testing environment. Maybe the batteries are power hungry because of the temperature, it's always hotter in Singapore isn't it?

[the dutch guy]

I drive a tesla quite often (p95d) and my milage is around 330W/km while driving "brisk". I dont know how they drive to get up to 400+ but i call bullshit on their tests.

 

[unsubscribed]

Although a bit misleading the idea is correct. Electricity is produced mainly by coal or nuclear. Both of which have negative impact on the environment and this is a fact. I was always skeptical about solar and other "alternative" sources since there are number of factors at play:

1) production of said hardware - how much impact does it have (all the way from ore to final product)

2) lifespan and value of said item

3) disposal

One could argue that small engine petrol car without unnecessary electronics is easier on environment in total than electric one. At least at the moment.

[FakezZ]

6 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Apparently the car was sold in 2014, so maybe its batteries degraded over time? Still seems like a surprisingly big drop, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

Battery degradation will only affect the mileage, not the efficiency of the car.