Safe Cooling Liquids for use with PETG

[jasonc_01]

I am putting together a hard line setup over the next month, and went to go order some extra PETG tubing from DazMode.

 

I noticed an interesting little note this time around:

 

" Attention: Glycol based coolants are not recommended for PETG type of plastic, such as DazMode Protector, Feser One, Nanoxia CF1, Koolance, EK EVO, Mayhems XT. Mayhems Pastel, EK Pastel or Ice Dragon nano-liquids are OK for PETG tube projects, but if you wish to use non-recommended coolants, you'd betetr  switch to Acrylic tubing."

 

I feel like this is a topic that needs a data base of compatible and incompatible cooling liquids for use with PETG hard line setups have become much more popular, and coolant compatibility for PETG is not covered in the watercooloing faq sticky.

 

So far for I have identified 3 coolants that are safe for use with PETG: Distilled water obviously, all Primochill liquids and Mayhems X1 line of coolants.  

 

 

 

 

[Leonard]

Simple solution, use only distilled/deionized water with kill coils or monsoon silver bullets.

[Codyman125]

10 minutes ago, jasonc_01 said:

I am putting together a hard line setup over the next month, and went to go order some extra PETG tubing from DazMode.

 

I noticed an interesting little note this time around:

 

" Attention: Glycol based coolants are not recommended for PETG type of plastic, such as DazMode Protector, Feser One, Nanoxia CF1, Koolance, EK EVO, Mayhems XT. Mayhems Pastel, EK Pastel or Ice Dragon nano-liquids are OK for PETG tube projects, but if you wish to use non-recommended coolants, you'd betetr  switch to Acrylic tubing."

 

I feel like this is a topic that needs a data base of compatible and incompatible cooling liquids for use with PETG hard line setups have become much more popular, and coolant compatibility for PETG is not covered in the watercooloing faq sticky.

 

So far for I have identified 3 coolants that are safe for use with PETG: Distilled water obviously, all Primochill liquids and Mayhems X1 line of coolants.  

 

 

 

 

Wait... Fuck, why no glycol? I'm running a glycol/PETG loop right now.

[jasonc_01]

Just now, Leonard said:

Simple solution, use only distilled/deionized water with kill coils or monsoon silver bullets.

I do agree that it is a simple solution, as I am going to do just that and a little dye.  

 

The point is that there are many people like myself who are getting into water cooling for the first time, or going from flex tubing to PETG hard line that have no idea that PETG is not compatible with ethylene glycol based coolants and additives. 

 

To make it worse many of the coolants out there if not all of them do not say what they are and are not compatible with. 

 

So you see it is very easy to unknowingly put a PETG system together with the wrong coolants.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Codyman125 said:

Wait... Fuck, why no glycol? I'm running a glycol/PETG loop right now.

 

 

[jasonc_01]

3 minutes ago, Codyman125 said:

Wait... Fuck, why no glycol? I'm running a glycol/PETG loop right now.

There, a perfect example. 

 

There is very little searchable info on this topic through regular means of just wanting to build a loop with out talking some time to search it out,knowing there is a problem.

 

As an example, a thread i found when googling talked about a failed "melted" petg line at the cpu block:  http://themodzoo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/1338-petg-problem/

 

No one suggested coolant could be and most likely was the issue, not overheating and melting the tube which is border line absurd.

 

 

[Codyman125]

11 minutes ago, jasonc_01 said:

There, a perfect example. 

well.... thank you for saving my computer before... yeah... I just finished the loop 3 weeks ago D':

[Leonard]

4 minutes ago, jasonc_01 said:

I do agree that it is a simple solution, as I am going to do just that and a little dye.  

 

The point is that there are many people like myself who are getting into water cooling for the first time, or going from flex tubing to PETG hard line that have no idea that PETG is not compatible with ethylene glycol based coolants and additives. 

 

To make it worse many of the coolants out there if not all of them do not say what they are and are not compatible with. 

 

So you see it is very easy to unknowingly put a PETG system together with the wrong coolants.

I do understand what you meant and i also understand how easy it is to use glycol with PETG tubing, what most of you don't know is that PETG tubing can be used with glycol but not for long periods.

 

In many laboratories they use PETG with glycol liquids for tests and shit, the things about it is that they use it for a test or three, depending on factors of the test, and then discard the PETG. My sister took me to a lab a few years ago to get me acquainted with PETG, tygon, food grade and anti-bacterial tubing and how they use it and what standards allows a random tube to be used in a given scenario and it is after this that i decided that all these coloured coolants are really for show and not for longevity, the tube type is really not the issue and it is the reactions that occur with heat, metals, liquids and cooling that cause the issue.

 

It is a tricky subject indeed.

[Benji_w]

37 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Simple solution, use only distilled/deionized water with kill coils or monsoon silver bullets.

 

Don't use nickel and silver together, you'll regret it. 

[jasonc_01]

6 hours ago, Leonard said:

I do understand what you meant and i also understand how easy it is to use glycol with PETG tubing, what most of you don't know is that PETG tubing can be used with glycol but not for long periods.

 

In many laboratories they use PETG with glycol liquids for tests and shit, the things about it is that they use it for a test or three, depending on factors of the test, and then discard the PETG. My sister took me to a lab a few years ago to get me acquainted with PETG, tygon, food grade and anti-bacterial tubing and how they use it and what standards allows a random tube to be used in a given scenario and it is after this that i decided that all these coloured coolants are really for show and not for longevity, the tube type is really not the issue and it is the reactions that occur with heat, metals, liquids and cooling that cause the issue.

 

It is a tricky subject indeed.

No I completely understand that you "could" use PETG tubing with ethylene glycol, just not for long periods of time. I could use milk as coolant in my loop as well, just not for long periods of time. 

 

That argument and rationality make absolutely no sense. 

 

Seeing as the coolant is always in your loop running or not, whats a long period of time when the interaction between two products that don't play well together is constant. As well the issue is exasperated the warmer the coolant gets, from what i have found so far. 

 

 

[Leonard]

10 minutes ago, jasonc_01 said:

No I completely understand that you "could" use PETG tubing with ethylene glycol, just not for long periods of time. I could use milk as coolant in my loop as well, just not for long periods of time. 

 

That argument and rationality make absolutely no sense. 

 

Seeing as the coolant is always in your loop running or not, whats a long period of time when the interaction between two products that don't play well together is constant. As well the issue is exasperated the warmer the coolant gets, from what i have found so far. 

 

 

 The "argument" makes sense and it is fact, the PETG tubing is best used with distilled/deionized water as there will be almost no reaction with the components other than the water itself losing the properties of being distilled/deionized as it keeps being in contact with metals. Another thing they, the coolant people, tend not to say is that the reaction times of issues happening also tends to be affected by your ambient, the cooler the better.

 

I have a high ambient and because of this and the information i got my my sister and her lab friends prompted me to discard my premixed coolant and use distilled/deionized water with silver coils and PT Nuke. The longest i have lasted between coolant changes is just over a year with deionized and about 6-8 months with distilled. I only got about 2-3 months with glycol coolants, so i stopped using them.

 

You can't use milk as a coolant, not even for a short time, not because JayzTwoCents did that in a video doesn't mean it is wise. The only people who seem to not have an issue with PETG/other tube types and glycol coolants tends to be the ones who change the coolant after a short period of time and that time frame is expressed by the usage of the PC.

 

I would not use/recommend using glycol coolants especially the coloured ones.

[jasonc_01]

No there's no caveat that its OK the use ethylene glycol based coolants or additives as long as its not "long term". What is long term for using two products that don't work together 1 hour, 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months a year? 

 

That just adds to misinformation regarding the non compatibility between the two. Its a yes or no answer, it either works with PETG..... or it doesn't. 

 

Most people are not going to be draining there loop multiple times a year, using different coolant. Most will use the same coolant for long periods of time, checking or changing yearly.

 

[OddsCrazyStuff]

12 hours ago, Leonard said:

Simple solution, use only distilled/deionized water with kill coils or monsoon silver bullets.

Then you better not be having any Nickel in your loop or the Silver in the kill coil will/can react to it.

[jasonc_01]

42 minutes ago, OddsCrazyStuff said:

Then you better not be having any Nickel in your loop or the Silver in the kill coil will/can react to it.

Ya this is something I looked into right away, and ya nickle and silver apparently don't play nice together in a loop.

 

I've ordered Mayhems X1 concentrate and red dye, to mix with distilled water. 

[simbol]

Hi,

 

I saw this information and got scared since I am starting a PETG loop, I need to tell you that after some research and investigations I concluded that the person that posted that video is wrong.

 

There are many types of Glycols and the one that has been scientifically proved to be dangerous for PETG is Ethylene Glycol (the one used to create PETG on the first place), I am attaching for general information a list of Chemical-Resistance tests performed against different materials. On this file you will find all the different chemical tests performed against PETG and for example you will be able to confirms that after several days of direct exposure to Propylene Glycol nothing happened to the PETG material.

 

That video states that Koolance is not safe for PETG, if you read the list of Ingredients for the product  LIQ-702  you will notice that it doesn't use Ethylene Glycol, it uses Propylene Glycol:

 

Ingredients                   Conc. %

Distilled Water               70 – 75

Propylene glycol            25 – 30

Others (Proprietary) - -  0.2 – 2.0

 

The video also mention that Mayhems is not safe to use for PETG when in fact their coolants do not use Ethylene Glycol neither, in fact their latest coolants don't even use any type Glycol for an instance.

 

The person that made that video needs to get the facts better, PETG is safe to use with most of the ready mix coolants on the market, but if you want to be 100% just verify that the coolant that you want to use for your loop do not contain Ethylene Glycol, if it uses any other type of Glycol check the charts on the file that I uploaded to confirm its compatibility.

 

Greetings.

 

Chemical-Resistance-Chart-Detail.pdf

[mordhau5]

On 5/7/2016 at 5:35 PM, simbol said:

There are many types of Glycols and the one that has been scientifically proved to be dangerous for PETG is Ethylene Glycol (the one used to create PETG on the first place), I am attaching for general information a list of Chemical-Resistance tests performed against different materials. On this file you will find all the different chemical tests performed against PETG and for example you will be able to confirms that after several days of direct exposure to Propylene Glycol nothing happened to the PETG material.

Hi thanks for your post here, that chart was a nice find. However, doesn't the absence of a grade "E, G, F, N" mean they didn't test the material against it? As for Propylene Glycol is would seem they didn't grade it along with most of the other chemicals aside from Ethylene. Can you site examples of the use of Propylene Glycol not eroding PETG?

 

Personally, I'm of the belief that if a company like XSPC that only sells PETG hardline but carries a coolant they claim is proprietary (not to be mixed with others) which has Propane-1,2-diol (Propylene Glycol) according to their safety sheet (attached), then logic would say it's probably safe. But I'd like to make sure.

XSPC ECX MSDS report 2014-5-8.pdf