Design Flaw in EK X-RES 100 DDC MX?

[HannibalBurgers]

Hi all,

 

Some of you may have seen my previous thread trying to determine what had killed 3 of my pumps in a row. I thought I had nailed down the problem as a result of weird interactions with the motherboard header and the onboard fan control software BUT BAD NEWS. Once again I have a dead pump, that's right, 4 dead pumps in about 2 months. However, this time I think I finally have found the problem.

 

The failure: While using the PC I started to smell melting plastic, i jumped up and quickly turned the machine off, opened it up and saw that the bottom of the pump was smoking. I took the loop out of the system, disassembled the pump/res combo and discovered the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully it can be seen in the photos, but looking at the disassembled pump, it appears that moisture got into the inside of the pump. In the picture with just the bottom of the pump casing, you can see that in the area around the heat damage there is quite a bit of moisture in there. In the picture of the top of the pump casing you can see moisture in both the coupling screw hole and in the small hole to the left of that, where it looks like the leak was able to get into the electronics of the pump.

 

This pump lasted much longer than the first three and seemingly just randomly decided to fail today. However, when I though about it I remembered that last night was the first time since I installed the pump that I turned the PC off overnight. I poked around online and discovered other people had reported this problem specifically with this res; they stated that when the pump is turned off, the seal between the res pump top and the pump isn't being suctioned together tightly anymore by the force of the pump. With this info, I took a look at the base of the pump top (that attaches to the pump) and saw the following:

 

 

 

If you can't make it out in the picture, in the area above where the leak occurred, in the hollowed out areas . . . liquid.

 

All of this evidence seems to lead me to only one conclusion, when powered off the EK X-Res 100 DDC MX does not maintain a seal between itself and the top of the pump it is attached to. As a lower cost alternative the "MX" version has the hollowed out base as you can see in the last picture which likely only helps to exacerbate the problem by giving the water a place to flow.

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had a problem using this pump top/res. Mine was actually from the EK L120 Kit. Those that know more of the science behind how pumps operate might be able to confirm whether this is likely the issue or whether I'm just reaching for someone to blame after enduring the RMA process for 3 pumps already.

 

I think the only option I can go with at this point is to move to a D5.

[airdeano]

this has been an ongoing issue with the Laing DDC models. lack of airflow to cool the PCB and windings.

 

this has been a short remedy:

 

and even as far as to use a small fan:

 

ek has even identified the issue and packaged an elite series:

[W-L]

19 minutes ago, HannibalBurgers said:

-SNIP-

 

Things just haven't been going your way...  

That's quite a few pumps now, have they all failed in a similar fashion, I remember from before that it was quite a mystery to why the others just upped and stopped working. 

[KE2012]

Quite appalling that this pump managed to get to the market with this problem.  Good luck on which ever pump you go for next.  

[HannibalBurgers]

48 minutes ago, airdeano said:

 -SNIP-

 

Initially I thought that the "lack of cooling" issue that these pumps face was the cause of this problem, as I was aware that was a commonly cited issue with these pumps. But, it seems very unlikely for two reasons. First, the amount of moisture that had entered the interior of the pump. Second, in my system the pump is located right behind the 3 120mm intake fans on the front of my case. I believe you have/had the same case, the NZXT H440; I had the pump sitting on of the hdd trays in the front. To me it seems like the heat damage was really just a result of the pcb being fried due to a combination of moisture and current. I don't think a heatsink attached to bottom would have prevented this from happening.

 

45 minutes ago, W-L said:

-SNIP-

You are correct, I was never really 100% sure of the cause behind the first 3 pump failures. But I never really took apart and inspected them after failure like I did with this pump, but your post reminded me of one exception. After the 3rd failure and after the pump had been sitting around a while I did open it up. The pump had been sitting out of the loop for maybe 5 or 6 days. Although I wasn't sure what I was looking at, there was a slick/slimy residue on the inside of the bottom of the pump casing. I wiped it out with a q-tip and the residue was green. At the time, I thought maybe it was some type of lubricant for the pump or something that was applied to protect the pcb. Looking back, I feel almost 100% certain that it was some type of bio-growth/evaporated biocide resulting from moisture that had gotten into the interior of that pump.

 

One thing I forgot to mention was that when I removed this last pump I could see water in-between the bottom of the pump casing and the bottom of the actual pump.

 

36 minutes ago, KE2012 said:

-SNIP-

It all just seems too coincidental to say its anything else besides a design flaw when I have tried so many different things in a effort to solve this problem. I really enjoy the aesthetics of EK's products but this just seems inexcusable. 

[KE2012]

8 minutes ago, HannibalBurgers said:

-snippidy snip snip-

 

It all just seems too coincidental to say its anything else besides a design flaw when I have tried so many different things in a effort to solve this problem. I really enjoy the aesthetics of EK's products but this just seems inexcusable. 

 This really is a fire risk and not just a small problem, really your lucky you've just had a few dead pumps.  So yes,  imo this isn't excusable at all especially if ek haven't addressed the issue or alerted users to the possible flaw. 

[EK Luc]

17 hours ago, HannibalBurgers said:

Hi all,

 

Some of you may have seen my previous thread trying to determine what had killed 3 of my pumps in a row. I thought I had nailed down the problem as a result of weird interactions with the motherboard header and the onboard fan control software BUT BAD NEWS. Once again I have a dead pump, that's right, 4 dead pumps in about 2 months. However, this time I think I finally have found the problem.

 

The failure: While using the PC I started to smell melting plastic, i jumped up and quickly turned the machine off, opened it up and saw that the bottom of the pump was smoking. I took the loop out of the system, disassembled the pump/res combo and discovered the following:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully it can be seen in the photos, but looking at the disassembled pump, it appears that moisture got into the inside of the pump. In the picture with just the bottom of the pump casing, you can see that in the area around the heat damage there is quite a bit of moisture in there. In the picture of the top of the pump casing you can see moisture in both the coupling screw hole and in the small hole to the left of that, where it looks like the leak was able to get into the electronics of the pump.

 

This pump lasted much longer than the first three and seemingly just randomly decided to fail today. However, when I though about it I remembered that last night was the first time since I installed the pump that I turned the PC off overnight. I poked around online and discovered other people had reported this problem specifically with this res; they stated that when the pump is turned off, the seal between the res pump top and the pump isn't being suctioned together tightly anymore by the force of the pump. With this info, I took a look at the base of the pump top (that attaches to the pump) and saw the following:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

If you can't make it out in the picture, in the area above where the leak occurred, in the hollowed out areas . . . liquid.

 

All of this evidence seems to lead me to only one conclusion, when powered off the EK X-Res 100 DDC MX does not maintain a seal between itself and the top of the pump it is attached to. As a lower cost alternative the "MX" version has the hollowed out base as you can see in the last picture which likely only helps to exacerbate the problem by giving the water a place to flow.

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had a problem using this pump top/res. Mine was actually from the EK L120 Kit. Those that know more of the science behind how pumps operate might be able to confirm whether this is likely the issue or whether I'm just reaching for someone to blame after enduring the RMA process for 3 pumps already.

 

I think the only option I can go with at this point is to move to a D5.

Wow this is not good!

 

Did you bought it from a reseller or from our webshop?

 

Can I use your pictures to show this to our R&D Chief?

 

 

[HannibalBurgers]

Just now, EK Luc said:

Wow this is not good!

 

Did you bought it from a reseller or from our webshop?

 

Can I use your pictures to show this to our R&D Chief?

 

 

The kit and all the pumps that have failed, 4 in total, were purchased through a reseller (PerformancePCs.com). The first three were EK pumps, and since I thought the issue with them might have been the pump, the fourth pump was a swifttech. However, with all four failed pumps there has been one consistency, I used the EK X-RES 100 DDC MX.  

 

By all means, feel free to show my pictures to R&D. I understand that the base of the res is designed this way to minimize cost but having such a narrow surface for the o-ring to land on combined with all the grooves and hollowed out areas seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

Please let me know if I can provide you with any other information and know that I appreciate your attention to this matter.

[HannibalBurgers]

@EK Luc

 

I've tried to do some more research on this in the past few days and I think I can be a little bit more specific about what the issue is. The leak only occurred only after I turned the system off and the pump was not running for about 10 hours. During that time, the water held in the res is exerting pressure and force on the seal/o-ring located between the pump and the pump top. Due to the mesh/hollowed out design on the pump top, if the o-ring is not positioned in the precise area, water is allowed to run around the o-ring, filing the hollowed out areas and spilling into the holes indicated in my 5th picture. Essentially when the pump is turned off, back pressure in the loop will cause the pump top to leak internally into the pump. Hopefully this additional information is helpful.

 

Also I contacted the reseller to RMA the pump and they told me that because the pump has water damage, Swifttech will not RMA the pump. Is there anything EK can do to help me get my loop back up and running?

[EK Luc]

23 hours ago, HannibalBurgers said:

@EK Luc

 

I've tried to do some more research on this in the past few days and I think I can be a little bit more specific about what the issue is. The leak only occurred only after I turned the system off and the pump was not running for about 10 hours. During that time, the water held in the res is exerting pressure and force on the seal/o-ring located between the pump and the pump top. Due to the mesh/hollowed out design on the pump top, if the o-ring is not positioned in the precise area, water is allowed to run around the o-ring, filing the hollowed out areas and spilling into the holes indicated in my 5th picture. Essentially when the pump is turned off, back pressure in the loop will cause the pump top to leak internally into the pump. Hopefully this additional information is helpful.

 

Also I contacted the reseller to RMA the pump and they told me that because the pump has water damage, Swifttech will not RMA the pump. Is there anything EK can do to help me get my loop back up and running?

Ok I will give those new infos to the R&D Chief.

 

I hope he will get back at me soon.  Depending on what he tells me I will be able to answer you on what we can do.

[AtilaEKWB]

Have you been using the same PSU the same time? Are you using some extenders? It is rather strange that 4 pumps died with such drama that it melted.
 

[aBulletTooth]

Same issues same place. 2 of 2 one lasted 13 months the backup lasted 3 months. Bought both at the same time for a hot spare both out of warranty. Friends  have also ran into water in the PCB or leaking joint of the pump housing. Love there blocks but will never buy there pumps or reservoirs again.