Bluetooth Headphones vs USB External "Soundcard"

[Buddha8888]

Ok, so LTT audio community lend me your wisdom in this if you please because I feel way over my head in all this.

A few months ago I accidentally broke my laptop's (http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03394757) headphone jack by the headphones plugged in getting sucked up by the vacuum cleaner on accident and yanking the cord out. It was relatively functional until I took it to a repair shop whose poking and prodding has made it totally non-functional. They said it will be a $400 repair because the jack is soldered onto the motherboard some special way that you'd basically have to buy a whole new motherboard to fix it and I could buy a whole new (admittedly crappy) laptop for that kind of money, so I'm less inclined to have it fixed rather than use a workaround because the rest of the laptop works wonderful for my use.

This leaves me with the decision of do I get a USB Bluetooth adapter (like $20 at Best Buy) and some Bluetooth headphones such as the Audio Technica ATH-S700BT (http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-S700BT-SonicFuel-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B015N52XDI) OR do I get what they're calling an "external sound card" such as these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1454463005&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=external+usb+sound+card&dpPl=1&dpID=51FLiQuh7EL&ref=plSrch

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000N35A0Y/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?qid=1454463024&sr=8-8&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=external+usb+sound+card&dpPl=1&dpID=315YCtwvgfL&ref=plSrch

And get a pair of ATH-M50x's (no link needed really, you all know these lol). I have 0 idea of sound quality these options offer and I hope you guys can help me make my decision. Of course if your solution isn't one of these and you have a better idea, that is welcome as well.

[Jacona]

I'd probably just get the little USB thing and a decent pair of efficient headphones, though I'd get some different else than the M50X. 

Bluetooth certainly has a come a long way like motherboard audio but I think the the price premium is worth it. 

Also check out our hardware recommendation list.

 

[Donk Quixote]

Instead of Best Buy just search for CSR8510 (the name of the BT chipset) on Amazon.  They work really well and are only $6 or $7. Why spend more than you need.  Alternatively you can upgrade your laptop's wifi card to one with BT like this and get better range than you can with a dongle, but you may have some driver issues. Then you can get the MPOW BT 4.0 reciever.  You can use it while charging, so you leave plugged in all the time and essentially use it as a headphone jack for your computer.  I have one and it works really well for my headphones.  And of course instead of the reciever you can just get BT headphone.

I do have a really old Creative Labs external sound card that I'm using right now because it has and optical out.  Despite working really well for what I use it for the headphone jack sounds like shit.  So I know for a fact that some external soundcards have shit headphone jacks, and that the MPOW reciever sounds really good.

[Buddha8888]

Only reason I said Best Buy is because it's near me and I prefer to buy things in-store if I can to avoid shipping etc (no Prime subscription or anything like that), just preference but yea $7 is better than $20 certainly.

I'm not exactly confident enough in my repair skills to try to open this laptop and do anything to it myself like changing the wifi card(as for range, it just need to reach from laptop at this little table it stays at to my head and maybe in the kitchen like 10 feet away to get a drink maybe), especially with a good ol' Proprietary HP parts system (the guys at the repair shop were eye rolling pretty hard about the headphone jack being such an annoying thing to fix on this laptop, i'm certainly inclined to agree lol). I've never built even a desktop YET (need the $$ first haha) so I don't think i'm experienced enough to jump into laptop repairs yet.

I'm a little confused on what the MPOW unit does exactly. It connects to the headphone jack (which in my case is busted) to connect with Bluetooth headphones? If that's the case i'm not sure what is different about that vs a regular USB Bluetooth dongle?

 

[Donk Quixote]

A bluetooth dongle, laptop (if equipped) or cell phone would be bluetooth transmitters.  The MPOW that I linked is a bluetooth reciever, just like bluetooth headphones would be.

 

The MPOW was originally designed and marketed for older car stereos to play bluetooth music from your phone.  However they also happen to drive headphones very well, and if your headphones have detachable cables you can plug it into the headphone and essentially have a DIY bluetooth headphone.  Of course you don't have to plug them in directly to a headphone like that.  You can take any headphone with a normal cord an plug them directly into the MPOW.  It does have a 15 hour battery life so I was suggesting leaving plugged in, either into a USB charger or in one of the laptop's USB ports, eliminating any concerns for battery life.  It would effectively be a new headphone jack for your laptop.

 

It depends on the laptop, but replacing the wifi card is more like replacing remote batteries than it is a repair.  It usually requires unscrewing a few screws to gain access, popping out the old one and popping in the new one.  If you googled your model number and "replace wifi card" or "teardown" chances are you'll find a video of someone showing you exactly how it's done, then decide if it's worth it.  The difference in range between my laptop and the USB dongle on my PC is 30 feet vs 10 feet (it's because the dongle has a crap antenna).

 

[SSL]

I'm not interested in reading everything in the thread, so I'll just suggest a HD558 with a BTune, which has a model available specifically for the HD5x8 family of headphones.

[spwath]

11 minutes ago, SSL said:

I'm not interested in reading everything in the thread, so I'll just suggest a HD558 with a BTune, which has a model available specifically for the HD5x8 family of headphones.

was going to say will need an adapter, but if they have a model for them, then nevermind

[Buddha8888]

14 hours ago, Donk Quixote said:

A bluetooth dongle, laptop (if equipped) or cell phone would be bluetooth transmitters.  The MPOW that I linked is a bluetooth reciever, just like bluetooth headphones would be.

 

The MPOW was originally designed and marketed for older car stereos to play bluetooth music from your phone.  However they also happen to drive headphones very well, and if your headphones have detachable cables you can plug it into the headphone and essentially have a DIY bluetooth headphone.  Of course you don't have to plug them in directly to a headphone like that.  You can take any headphone with a normal cord an plug them directly into the MPOW.  It does have a 15 hour battery life so I was suggesting leaving plugged in, either into a USB charger or in one of the laptop's USB ports, eliminating any concerns for battery life.  It would effectively be a new headphone jack for your laptop.

 

It depends on the laptop, but replacing the wifi card is more like replacing remote batteries than it is a repair.  It usually requires unscrewing a few screws to gain access, popping out the old one and popping in the new one.  If you googled your model number and "replace wifi card" or "teardown" chances are you'll find a video of someone showing you exactly how it's done, then decide if it's worth it.  The difference in range between my laptop and the USB dongle on my PC is 30 feet vs 10 feet (it's because the dongle has a crap antenna).

 

Ok so with the MPOW I can plug the headphones into it's audio jack but where is the audio source then? And it connects to the audio source (laptop) via Bluetooth? What connection? Because USB is all I got since my audio jack on the laptop itself is busted lol   So Bluetooth via dongle or new wifi card, connect headphones via audio jack to the MPOW, pair the MPOW with the laptop's Bluetooth and it works like that? If that's how then how is that different than just getting a pair of Bluetooth headphones like the Audio-Technica ATH-WS99BT? I'm sorry if this goes over my head and these are dumb questions, audio tech isn't my best field of knowledge lol

[bbqsauce]

12 hours ago, SSL said:

I'm not interested in reading everything in the thread, so I'll just suggest a HD558 with a BTune, which has a model available specifically for the HD5x8 family of headphones.

will the Btune work with say a custom one pro? i notice theres a 3.5mm model on their site and the jack looks low profile and long enough to fit

 

edit:

nvm the compatibility list on their site includes the custom one pro. however it should still be plug and play correct?

Edited February 4, 2016 by bbqsauce

[Donk Quixote]

58 minutes ago, Buddha8888 said:

Ok so with the MPOW I can plug the headphones into it's audio jack but where is the audio source then? And it connects to the audio source (laptop) via Bluetooth? What connection? Because USB is all I got since my audio jack on the laptop itself is busted lol   So Bluetooth via dongle or new wifi card, connect headphones via audio jack to the MPOW, pair the MPOW with the laptop's Bluetooth and it works like that? If that's how then how is that different than just getting a pair of Bluetooth headphones like the Audio-Technica ATH-WS99BT? I'm sorry if this goes over my head and these are dumb questions, audio tech isn't my best field of knowledge lol

The bluetooth dongle or bluetooth enabled wifi card would connect to the MPOW through bluetooth.  It's exactly the same way the bluetooth dongle or card would connect to the bluetooth headphones.  The only real difference is you can plug any headphone into the MPOW.  Nothing would be physically connected to your laptop (unless you are using a USB port for power).

 

The other difference might be range (distances between transmitter and reciever).  The MPOW has decent range.  Given how much the WS99BT costs and how large they are I would guess they have good range too.  I've had some Sony BT IEMs that had really bad range, but they were super cheap and super small so that's to be expected.

 

[Buddha8888]

16 hours ago, Donk Quixote said:

1 hour ago, Donk Quixote said:

The bluetooth dongle or bluetooth enabled wifi card would connect to the MPOW through bluetooth.  It's exactly the same way the bluetooth dongle or card would connect to the bluetooth headphones.  The only real difference is you can plug any headphone into the MPOW.  Nothing would be physically connected to your laptop (unless you are using a USB port for power).

 

The other difference might be range (distances between transmitter and reciever).  The MPOW has decent range.  Given how much the WS99BT costs and how large they are I would guess they have good range too.  I've had some Sony BT IEMs that had really bad range, but they were super cheap and super small so that's to be expected.

 

 

Ok so that will be Option 1 for solutions then, seems like that would work out pretty well. Now, how does the sound quality compare to using a natively Bluetooth headphone (such as the WS99BT) and going that route? Or the external sound card (or maybe a DAC/Amp combo that connects via USB with headphone outputs, I assume some decent ones exist somewhere that aren't super expensive?) option to go with regular wired headphones such as ATH-M50x's?

 

it's worth noting i'm using Audio-technica headphones as my examples but that's only because it's what i've researched the most so far, i'm open to other good brands in the $200ish and lower range. Just needs to be: Over ear, closed back, as comfortable for longer listening sessions as possible, not super heavy, portability is not a concern really. 

 

It's also worth noting that yesterday, the headphones I DID have, the right earphone stopped working suddenly so I'm in need of headphones as it is and I wanted to replace them anyway, they were just some Bose AE2's that lived for about 3 years lol

[SSL]

3 hours ago, bbqsauce said:

will the Btune work with say a custom one pro? i notice theres a 3.5mm model on their site and the jack looks low profile and long enough to fit

 

edit:

nvm the compatibility list on their site includes the custom one pro. however it should still be plug and play correct?

 

I have no idea. Presumably it will be plug and play if it is on their compatibility list.

[Donk Quixote]

1 hour ago, Buddha8888 said:

Now, how does the sound quality compare to using a natively Bluetooth headphone (such as the WS99BT) and going that route? Or the external sound card (or maybe a DAC/Amp combo that connects via USB with headphone outputs, I assume some decent ones exist somewhere that aren't super expensive?) option to go with regular wired headphones such as ATH-M50x's?

Anything played through bluetooth is going to be compressed.  It used to be very noticeable, but these days it's so good that I personally can't tell the difference between BT 4.0 and a wired connection.  Maybe if I listened really hard, trying to discern every pluck of a string or vibration of brass on a track with lots things going on I could tell, but I can't.   So a USB dac+amp like the Schiit Fulla or Micca Origen will technically sound better, but probably not good enough to notice a difference in a double blind test.  However if I were in your position I would probably get the Micca Origen simply because of the large volume knob on top (plus if I ever needed it to I could hook up powered speakers in addition to headphones to it).

 

As far as the sound quality of the MPOW compared to native BT headphones like the WS99BT - I imagine it's the same as long as it's BT 4.0 (which all newer ones are).  I've never used a current BT headphone that also took a wired connection so I never tried, but I see no reason why it would be different.

[Buddha8888]

9 hours ago, Donk Quixote said:

Anything played through bluetooth is going to be compressed.  It used to be very noticeable, but these days it's so good that I personally can't tell the difference between BT 4.0 and a wired connection.  Maybe if I listened really hard, trying to discern every pluck of a string or vibration of brass on a track with lots things going on I could tell, but I can't.   So a USB dac+amp like the Schiit Fulla or Micca Origen will technically sound better, but probably not good enough to notice a difference in a double blind test.  However if I were in your position I would probably get the Micca Origen simply because of the large volume knob on top (plus if I ever needed it to I could hook up powered speakers in addition to headphones to it).

 

As far as the sound quality of the MPOW compared to native BT headphones like the WS99BT - I imagine it's the same as long as it's BT 4.0 (which all newer ones are).  I've never used a current BT headphone that also took a wired connection so I never tried, but I see no reason why it would be different.

Those are very nice products but a bit pricey since i'm not looking for a great audiophile experience, just as good or better than what my laptop did natively. I was looking at http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Blaster-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00J79KNPM. $35, amp but no DAC. that should be ok right? Since I don't think it actually overrides the laptop's sound card? or maybe is actually better if it does?

 

Edit: I also found this http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-DAC63057-Stereo-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B009WN7QT4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454548981&sr=8-1&keywords=Syba+SD-DAC63057.  it's an Amp AND a DAC and works via USB.

[Buddha8888]

I also emailed MPOW to ask whether either the one you linked or the "newer model" Amazon says there is (which from what I can tell the only difference is it can transmit and receive Bluetooth signals, and a smaller body) supports APTX. I spoke with Audio-tecchnica yesterday on the phone and the CS guy said APTX support is really important for using bluetooth for audio devices like headphones.

[Donk Quixote]

18 minutes ago, Buddha8888 said:

Those are very nice products but a bit pricey since i'm not looking for a great audiophile experience, just as good or better than what my laptop did natively. I was looking at http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Blaster-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00J79KNPM. $35, amp but no DAC. that should be ok right? Since I don't think it actually overrides the laptop's sound card? or maybe is actually better if it does?

No, you would need a DAC.  All a DAC does is change the digital files into analog sound waves.  The only way to access the DAC inside your laptop is either the internal laptop speakers or through the headphone jack.  Since your headphone jack is broken you need a different DAC.

 

If you go the bluetooth route the way it would work is the the laptop sends the digital information to the BT transmitter (either the BT dongle or the wifi card with BT), and it compresses and transmits the information to the BT reciever (either the MPOW or BT headphones) then the DAC inside the BT reciever converts it into analog sound. (that may not be 100% accurate but close enough)

 

If you go the external DAC route the digital information would be passed through the USB port then changed into analogue.  So you definitely need a DAC somewhere in the process.

 

If you want to go the super cheap route get one of these for like $6.  It's the simplest cheapest DAC you can get, and you may find that it gives you acceptable quality.

[Donk Quixote]

8 minutes ago, Buddha8888 said:

I also emailed MPOW to ask whether either the one you linked or the "newer model" Amazon says there is (which from what I can tell the only difference is it can transmit and receive Bluetooth signals, and a smaller body) supports APTX. I spoke with Audio-tecchnica yesterday on the phone and the CS guy said APTX support is really important for using bluetooth for audio devices like headphones.

On the Amazon page someone in the question and answer section pointed to a document on the MPOW website that said it supported APTX.  But it's not there anymore, and I don't know why they wouldn't put that in marketing, so I have my doubts.

 

But I really don't think it matters.  The MPOW may or may not support APTX.  My phone (Galaxy S4) does, but I have no idea if my laptop's wifi/BT card and the CSR8510 dongle that I use support it.  But they all sound the same to me.  And I can't tell the difference with BT and a wired connection with any combination.  I think as long as it's BT 4.0 it will be fine.

[Buddha8888]

13 minutes ago, Donk Quixote said:

If you go the external DAC route the digital information would be passed through the USB port then changed into analogue.  So you definitely need a DAC somewhere in the process.

 

If you want to go the super cheap route get one of these for like $6.  It's the simplest cheapest DAC you can get, and you may find that it gives you acceptable quality.

Got any recommendations for a good DAC or Amp/DAC combo in the $20-$40 range? This seems like a good one but I don't know what any of the numbers for things on stuff like this really means lol   

I wanna save money but I don't wanna skimp too hard you know? lol  Like I said as long as it's as good as it WAS from my audio jack before with no amp or DAC just some meh Bose headphones lol

[Donk Quixote]

4 hours ago, Buddha8888 said:

Got any recommendations for a good DAC or Amp/DAC combo in the $20-$40 range? This seems like a good one but I don't know what any of the numbers for things on stuff like this really means lol   

I wanna save money but I don't wanna skimp too hard you know? lol  Like I said as long as it's as good as it WAS from my audio jack before with no amp or DAC just some meh Bose headphones lol

It will probably work fine.  The thing is I have an external card that originally cost about that (although it was probably made 10 years ago), but I don't think it sounds very good.  It's great for other uses, but the headphone jack isn't very powerful and a bit noisy.  I can't imagine the $6 one I linked before would drive my headphones any worse than the external sound card I have now.  And I know for a fact a $7 bluetooth dongle paired with an MPOW reciever sounds better even with compression.  Unless you need something else like the optical SPDIF out I wouldn't bother with DACs in that range.  

 

If I was getting a USB DAC primarily for headphones it would be the $6 one I linked early or the $100 Micca Origen (or something in that range), just about nothing in between.  But knowing exactly how it sounds I would probably get the $7 BT dongle and the $17 MPOW reciever, as it is really to have the option to do wireless.  

[Buddha8888]

I think the thing is my "you get what you pay for" senses go off about the $6 adapter/external sound card thing lol. If the Syba Amp/DAC would work I think I'm going with that not just for the price but because it has an amp with it. I checked their other products and they make a few other similar things ranging from an adapter piece like you said to more expensive stuff, so it seems like a decent company. If it doesn't work out I'll return it or re-sell it and try one of the adapter pieces or the MPOW because I do like the idea certainly. I ordered it late last night with a pair of ATH-M50x's (tough pick between them and Sennheiser HD 380 Pro's lol) When I get it I'll report back my findings as best I can and let everybody know if the Syba Amp/DAC is garbage or not

 

Thanks for all the guidance though man I really appreciate it. More or less my first real LTT forum post lol

[Donk Quixote]

It's quite possible that my external sound card is simply on the lower end of all external sound cards in the price range as far as performance.  I'm almost tempted to pick up one of those $6 ones just to see if it does any sound wise than the one I have now.

[Buddha8888]

14 hours ago, Donk Quixote said:

It's quite possible that my external sound card is simply on the lower end of all external sound cards in the price range as far as performance.  I'm almost tempted to pick up one of those $6 ones just to see if it does any sound wise than the one I have now.

If you do, post back in this thread how you think it turned out lol I almost got one as well to use as a comparison vs the Syba 

[Buddha8888]

Ok, so I've had my Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057 and Audio-Technica ATH-M50x for about a week now. I'm writing this as a review because i'm considering posting it as it's own post for others. Please forgive my overuse of parenthesis.  >_<

 

As for the M50x's:  They fit nicely, clamping pressure is a tiny bit much and hurt my jaw near my ear a little bit but i'm basically used to it now and/or they have stretched out some. The ear cups fit my ears fine (and keep the sound in pretty well too), however people with really big ears this might not be the right fit for you. The headband is padded but I wish there was a bit more. The circular design of the ear cups keep the sound in well and provide pretty good noise cancellation around you. If someone is talking while you're listening to music, you probably won't hear them unless they yell. The box was packaged well, it came with 3 different cables AND a 6.5mm adapter (that my Syba amp/DAC supports and I use, mostly just for reassurance it wont bend or break if it falls on the floor). Instructions were pretty clear on usage and what things did/were. Aesthetically the M50x's have a nice black color to them, all matte finish, no gloss and no fingerprints! That said there are a few color options AND DBrand makes skins for them so you can make them look how you want even if you don't like the way they look! Now, as for the sound, I cannot in any way claim to be any kind of audiophile so take it with a big chunk of salt. Plugged into my cell phone (Samsung Note 4), they played pretty good, not too bass-y or treble-y at all, volume was totally fine (35 Ohm impedance), songs from multiple genres sounded as they did with my previous headphones (some crappy Bose AE2's) but a little better "soundstaged". I really like the M50x's all around. 

 

As for the M50x's with my Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057: My audio jack on the laptop being broken this is the product I was mainly shopping for to replace it. I expected not much more than a USB-to-3.5mm adapter that sounded as good as the laptop's crappy sound card out of this thing. The "Soundstaging" on these are even better like this compared to a cell phone. Songs that have sound for left and right ear cups sound really cool in these*.

            The Syba amp/DAC has multiple inputs and outputs. Outputs: Line in, Microphone, 3.5mm headphone, and 6.5mm headphone. Inputs: mini-USB (this was the only output I have actually tried admittedly), Coaxial, Optical, and Right and Left Line Out for RCA cables (that were included with the unit). The unit is a bit bigger than my palm (I have relatively small hands for a guy) so I don't think i would call this a portable unit but it is small enough that it will pack away easily. I honestly cannot tell if the unit is made from a plastic-y metal or a metal-y plastic which I think is probably a good thing because it's a perfect medium between the two, it's pretty durable and cheaper to manufacture (I would hope). In addition to those inputs the unit has a little metal lever switch on the left front to switch between Direct (source audio as it is), Treble boost, and Bass boost. These boosts are subtle but enough to hear an obvious difference. The M50x's aren't very bass-y headphones as it is, so I'm glad the Syba unit has this option because some songs could use one but not the other to "adjust to taste". It's like a Salt and Pepper switch! The volume knob is smooth and not "notched" and gets plenty loud enough for me and my M50x's but for a higher Ohm headphone such as the Beyerdynamic DT-770 250 Ohm headphone I would probably look for a product with more power than this because I think it has a limit of 150 Ohms. It has a slight hiss at higher volumes (not bad at all) but switching into different modes seems to help sometimes. The product page says "24bit 96KHz" and I have zero idea what that means mechanically lol. The unit has lights on it to indicate which KHz range it is currently working in (44.1, 48 or 96). Again, zero idea what it means but someone else seeing this review might. All in all, soundwise, I would say the Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057 is a great laptop sound card/audio jack replacement for the $37 I paid for it. if you have higher end headphones, especially ones with a higher Ohm impedance, you will likely need something better and thus more expensive.

 

If there's anything else anyone wants to know about these, respond here or message me and i'll try to get back to you

[SSL]

4 hours ago, Buddha8888 said:

 but for a higher Ohm headphone such as the Beyerdynamic DT-770 250 Ohm headphone I would probably look for a product with more power than this because I think it has a limit of 150 Ohms.

 

Not necessary. "Maximum" impedance ratings are meaningless.