Jump to content

AMD faces class action suit over Bulldozer missrepresentation

zMeul

source: http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510646458-amd-faces-suit-over-alleged-misrepresentation-of-new-cpu

 

SAN JOSE, Calif. (Legal Newsline) — One of the world’s largest computer chip manufacturers is facing a lawsuit over allegations of deceptive marketing.

Tony Dickey, on behalf of himself and others similarly situated, filed a class-action lawsuit on Oct. 26 in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, San Jose Division against Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) for alleged violations of the Consumer Legal Remedies Act, California’s Unfair Competition Law, false advertising, fraud, breach of express warrant, negligent misrepresentation and unjust enrichment.

In claiming that its new Bulldozer CPU had “8-cores,” which means it can perform eight calculations simultaneously, AMD allegedly tricked consumers into buying its Bulldozer processors by overstating the number of cores contained in the chips. Dickey alleges the Bulldozer chips functionally have only four cores—not eight, as advertised.

The suit alleges AMD built the Bulldozer processors by stripping away components from two cores and combining what was left to make a single “module.” In doing so, however, the cores no longer work independently. As a result, Dickey argues that AMD’s Bulldozer CPUs suffer from material performance degradation, and cannot perform eight instructions simultaneously and independently as claimed. He alleges that average consumers in the market for computer CPUs lack the requisite technical expertise to understand the design of AMD's processors and trust the company to convey accurate specifications regarding its CPUs. Because AMD did not convey accurate specifications, Dickey argues that tens of thousands of consumers have been misled into buying Bulldozer CPUs that cannot perform the way a true eight-core CPU would.

Dickey is suing for damages, including statutory and punitive damages, litigation expenses, pre- and post-judgment interest, as well as other injunctive and declaratory relief as is deemed reasonable. He is represented by Samuel M. Lasser from Edelson PC in San Francisco, California; and Rafey S. Balabanian, Alexander T.H. Nguyen and Amir C. Missaghi from Edelson PC in Chicago, Illinois.

U.S. District Court For the Northern District of California, San Jose Division Case number 5:15-cv-04922-PSG

---

kida' true and kinda' not; Windows will show 4 cores and 8 logical processors

here's the block diagram:

AMD_Bulldozer_block_diagram_(8_core_CPU)

what's happening is that AMD designed this architecture by having individual modules, each including two clusters - it's way different than Intel's Hyper Threading

this will be a tricky one for AMD, because technically the CPU only has 4 cores; and it's especially tricky because each module has only one FPU

Bulldozer floating point logic:

 

bulldozer,L-I-310518-3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wont go to far. No concrete definition on what a 'core' is.

Technically, it have 4 modules, with 8 clusters.

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

"the last 20 percent – going from demo to production-worthy algorithm – is both hard and is time-consuming. The last 20 percent is what separates the men from the boys" - Mobileye CEO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

well the guy sure took his time getting around to it. bulldozer being released 4 years ago and whatnot.

(not actually supporting the notion, just noting how long it took for this guy and his cohort to react)

Aftermarket 980Ti >= Fury X >= Reference 980Ti > Fury > 980 > 390X > 390 >= 970 380X > 380 >= 960 > 950 >= 370 > 750Ti = 360

"The Orange Box" || CPU: i5 4690k || RAM: Kingston Hyper X Fury 16GB || Case: Aerocool DS200 (Orange) || Cooler: Cryorig R1 Ultimate || Storage: Kingston SSDNow V300 240GB + WD Black 1TB || PSU: Corsair RM750 || Mobo: ASUS Z97-A || GPU: EVGA GTX 970 FTW+

"Unnamed Form Factor Switch" || CPU: i7 6700K || RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB || Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv Mini ITX (White) || Cooler: Cryorig R1 Ultimate (Green Cover) || Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 1TB || PSU: XFX XTR 550W || Mobo: ASUS Z170I Pro Gaming || GPU: EVGA GTX 970 FTW+

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wont go to far. No concrete definition on what a 'core' is.

Technically, it have 4 modules, with 8 clusters.

And those ALU can not perform as a processor on their own, so AMD marketing them as cores is false advertising. A core is capable of acting as a CPU in its own right, ALU are only a component of said core.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

shit, so THAT's why task manager reads my 6600K as 2 cores 4 threads....

Yep.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, so Zmuel is back with another AMD hate post which us 11 days old at this point.

Give it up dude.

Ok so I apologise Zmuel, after reading the post it's not that bad by your usual standards.

 

yeah he really didnt say anything negative, just explained the situation, also the fact its old doenst mean it hasnt been on the forum as news before for discussion

 

 

 

Interesting situation for AMD, did they ever intentionally misrepresenter this? I dont really recall them saying it

Desktop - Corsair 300r i7 4770k H100i MSI 780ti 16GB Vengeance Pro 2400mhz Crucial MX100 512gb Samsung Evo 250gb 2 TB WD Green, AOC Q2770PQU 1440p 27" monitor Laptop Clevo W110er - 11.6" 768p, i5 3230m, 650m GT 2gb, OCZ vertex 4 256gb,  4gb ram, Server: Fractal Define Mini, MSI Z78-G43, Intel G3220, 8GB Corsair Vengeance, 4x 3tb WD Reds in Raid 10, Phone Oppo Reno 10x 256gb , Camera Sony A7iii

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

the "dude" kinda' has a point, because even if the module has 2 clusters, it has only one FPU

One FPU shared between two cores doesn't actually matter at all. It was the latency in the processor design that killed it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

And those ALU can not perform as a processor on their own, so AMD marketing them as cores is false advertising. A core is capable of acting as a CPU in its own right, ALU are only a component of said core.

Still, there's no chance of winning for this guy.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT 16GB GDDR6 Motherboard: MSI PRESTIGE X570 CREATION
AIO: Corsair H150i Pro RAM: Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 Case: Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic PSU: Corsair RM850x White

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

And those ALU can not perform as a processor on their own, so AMD marketing them as cores is false advertising. A core is capable of acting as a CPU in its own right, ALU are only a component of said core.

Now, there are more to the "clusters"/cores than the ALU.

You don't think AMD went over this when deciding what their core-count schema?

 

the "dude" kinda' has a point, because even if the module has 2 clusters, it has only one FPU

It is a grey area.

There are way more technicality behind it. Is the FPU even an actual required component of a core? Tip: It is not

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

"the last 20 percent – going from demo to production-worthy algorithm – is both hard and is time-consuming. The last 20 percent is what separates the men from the boys" - Mobileye CEO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, there are more to the "clusters"/cores than the ALU.

You don't think AMD went over this when deciding what their core-count schema?

It is a grey area.

There are way more technicality behind it. Is the FPU even an actual required component of a core?

There are 2 ALU per module, 2 ALU that can't function as a physical processor on their own. And this is the result:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-fx-8370-and-8370e-processor-review,1.html

 

And you might want to do some research on FPU.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, there are more to the "clusters"/cores than the ALU.

You don't think AMD went over this when deciding what their core-count schema?

It is a grey area.

There are way more technicality behind it. Is the FPU even an actual required component of a core?

Mmmmmm. I don't think so. The ALU is obviously the actual thing that's important. Its the thing that does the arithmetic calculations and make logical comparisons such as less than and greater than. In contrast, a FPU shared between two cores wouldn't be a bottleneck at all. There are very few tasks that even hammer the FPU in the first place so once again, the problem I believe in Bulldozer came from something to do with latency and the CPU cache. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mmmmmm. I don't think so. The ALU is obviously the actual thing that's important. Its the thing that does the arithmetic calculations and make logical comparisons such as less than and greater than. In contrast, a FPU shared between two cores wouldn't be a bottleneck at all. There are very few tasks that even hammer the FPU in the first place so once again, the problem I believe in Bulldozer came from something to do with latency and the CPU cache. 

Or the fact that quite often 1 ALU needs to wait for the other to finish its task due to everything-including the FPU (which is important in games) being shared between them.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Or the fact that quite often 1 ALU needs to wait for the other to finish its task due to everything-including the FPU (which is important in games) being shared between them.

They could have designed Bulldozer better, not arguing that. Just saying that an FPU being shared between cores wasn't necessarily a bad thing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

They could have designed Bulldozer better, not arguing that. Just saying that an FPU being shared between cores wasn't necessarily a bad thing. 

You also need to do a bit of reading on what FPU actually do.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who don't know what a FPU does:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_unit

http://searchwindowsserver.techtarget.com/definition/floating-point-unit-FPU

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/floating_point_number.html

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/2865/floating-point-unit-fpu

 

An FPU handles the more advanced calculations, which are found all the time in modern computers-in the 90's with the 486 and earlier CPU the FPU (or maths co processor) wasn't needed outside of specific programs.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who don't know what a FPU does:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_unit

http://searchwindowsserver.techtarget.com/definition/floating-point-unit-FPU

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/floating_point_number.html

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/2865/floating-point-unit-fpu

 

An FPU handles the more advanced calculations, which are found all the time in modern computers-in the 90's with the 486 and earlier CPU the FPU (or maths co processor) wasn't needed outside of specific programs.

Looks like my information is outdated then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 ALU per module, 2 ALU that can't function as a physical processor on their own. And this is the result:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-fx-8370-and-8370e-processor-review,1.html

 

And you might want to do some research on FPU.

There are two ALU/INT clusters per module, that is correct, and is not been disputed.

Most processor architectures can't have a core operate on its own. Lots of uncore component are shared for all the cores.

I'm not sure what that link is for.

Don't think I would. See my edit, in last reply. FPU is not a fundamental requirement in the concept of a 'core'. It was added later, and then been integrated.

 

 

Or the fact that quite often 1 ALU needs to wait for the other to finish its task due to everything-including the FPU (which is important in games) being shared between them.

You would want to explain further on this.

Doesn't make much sense. And bulldozer FPU is not a bottleneck for gaming.

The FPU is wide enough, with enough throughput per thread. Both clusters/cores can utilize the FPU simultaneously.

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

"the last 20 percent – going from demo to production-worthy algorithm – is both hard and is time-consuming. The last 20 percent is what separates the men from the boys" - Mobileye CEO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I return my 8350 now?

 

I really want to upgrade to Skylake anyway.

CPU: AMD FX 8350 @4.0GHz | Mobo: MSI 970 Gaming | RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Quad Channel | GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 Ti Reference | Case: BeQuiet Silent Base 800 Black | OS: Win 10 Pro

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB | PSU: Corsair RM850 | Display: LG 34UM67 Ultrawide Monitor (x2) Vertically Mounted | Cooling: NZXT Kraken x61

Keyboard: Corsair Raptor K50 | Mouse: Mionix Naos | Sound: Beyerdynamic DT 770

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×