Microsoft Phones Still losing money despite new devices :(

[s3ns3]

good

 

they are loosing apps too http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/23/9602350/microsoft-windows-phone-app-removal-windows-store

[Troyanac]

Windows Phone is pretty fucking awsome. I used it on my old HTC HD2, Phone 7.8.

Windows phone is awsome for calling, texting and socializing. Posting pictures.

Anything more demanding like YouTube is garbage. 

Powerusers run away from Windows Phone like satan from a cross.

[AlTech]

Honestly, a full emulator would be terrible because of performance, besides ARM not having hardware accelerated virtualization, raw performance isn't there for it to be usable and not lag like hell. Blackberry did that and it went no where, also i'm sure project Astoria exist for this, i'm surprised you forgot they were doing that. 

The newer ArM CPUs feature virtualization such as the Lumia 950 and 950 XL due to the fact that 64 Bit supports virtualization. 

[marldorthegreat]

Windows phones are bad and they should feel bad.

Phones are not the problem, software is. IF they had android, they would be fine.

[AlTech]

Phones are not the problem, software is. IF they had android, they would be fine.

How is Windows Phone OS a problem then?

[GoodBytes]

good

 

they are loosing apps too http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/23/9602350/microsoft-windows-phone-app-removal-windows-store

Only 1 app, which was never updated since its release. As for the other apps discontinued last year they were just basic web wrappers, using IE11 integrated in app, so might as well use the web browser. As for the Microsoft apps, those were services canceled. Try and run them in Windows 8, you'll see that they don't run. They'll tell you service ended message or server not found. As for the Lumia camera apps, this is being merged with the Camera app of Windows phone. So that means non-Lumia phones now gets a good camera app, current users of Lumia, just gets a different app but same functionality.

Skype is being merged with Messager in Windows 10 Mobile. So, you'll have 1 place to send messages basically. No need to have 2 apps.

Information I have, (valid source, person working in the industry) developer interest for Windows 10 Universal App is growing. Now key word here is INTEREST. It doesn't mean that it is a "yes let's make it", but rather "Hey, should be make a universal app?". This is HUGE step forward. That is like if big publishers actually considered to make a game with complete effort for the WiiU, instead of going "What's the WiiU?! Oh yea that little fisherprice toy.... good one' type of response. So this is huge. And with the porting system of Windows 10 universal app for Android. All it means for a company, is: <5000$ more for making the app on Windows Phone as a port. This is peanuts.

Also remember, that many apps you use on Android and iOS, aren't made by the companies that are behind it. A lot of time its not in house, but rather a company that is hired to make the app. So the big question comes in: Is it worth spending that extra small amount for a Windows Phone, or put every single penny on perfecting the Android/iOS app version.

[GoodBytes]

Based on a leak, Windows 10 Mobile will have a HUGE selection of ring tone (includes alerts)

Here is over 21min (yes, minutes) ring tones and tones compilation.

Many are really nice. Interesting take on ring tones. Few of them says 'phone call ring' but rather music, but intresting

[AlTech]

Based on a leak, Windows 10 Mobile will have a HUGE selection of ring tone (includes alerts)

Here is over 21min (yes, minutes) ring tones and tones compilation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55bkyEEuGE

Many are really nice. Interesting take on ring tones. Includes fully orchestrated ones.

Oh wow. On top of all the over ringtones it already has? Awesome! 

[GoodBytes]

Oh wow. On top of all the over ringtones it already has? Awesome! 

Not sure or if they are added. But assuming you can put a custom ringtones (which I don't see why you can't), I don't think it would be complicated to port them

[AlTech]

Not sure or if they are added. But assuming you can put a custom ringtones (which I don't see why you can't), I don't think it would be complicated to port them

 

 

You can already make your own ringtone using a free app by MS.

 

And i found out (by manual counting) there are 52 ringtones in Windows Phone 8.1 GDR2!

[SuperfastJellyfish]

I agree, MS did not get involved so much with the hardware aspect of the phones so much as focused on getting the OS up and running. When MS and Nokia partnered up it made a vast improvement for both with Nokia's failure OS and Windows fail in hardware they made a good match. One thing I am surprised by the most is that MS Windows Mobile was used mostly on Motorola devices and Motorola never picked up on using the WP OS on their phones instead went with Android. This is were MS messed up and didn't do a good job dealing with Motorola but most likely expected it to happen on its own since Motorola (still uses Windows Mobile 6) on some devices, the invoicing/ inventory stuff, MS probably figured it would be a no brainier and adopt WP7 automatically. Bad on MS for that screw up but then again this one of many things why MS replaced the CEO. 

 

I understand and I am glad you put it that way. It was the same with MS, IBM and Apple back in the day MS had it all in terms of software compatibility and IBM's pc production made it easy for distribution. Apple was stringent with their code and failed in being widely accepted. (We all know this story) Same with Linux today. (sorry not to parrot you) so I do understand.

 

I guess I am just frustrated mostly since everywhere I turn people are telling me to switch to something else "just because it sucks".  :angry:  :mellow:

*edit

But I do get the occasional "that's a windows phone? looks pretty cool, I thought windows phones were cheap things guess I was wrong" comment. Just shows how ignorant people can be. *shrugs*

 

In my opinion Blackberry and WP should have partnered up 4 or 5 years ago and sticked to the corporate thing. It would have saved both of them.

 

Based on a leak, Windows 10 Mobile will have a HUGE selection of ring tone (includes alerts)

Here is over 21min (yes, minutes) ring tones and tones compilation.

Many are really nice. Interesting take on ring tones. Few of them says 'phone call ring' but rather music, but intresting

brb selling my 6S

[GoodBytes]

I think Microsoft buying Nokia phone devision was a good move (for Microsoft).

Here is why:

-> Blackberry camera sucks.

-> Blackberry phone design sucks as well, until the last model from the company, and the coming up Pur (I think that is the name).

-> Blackberry has this image of business. Something that Microsoft wanted to get away from and be consumer oriented device like Apple. Windows Phone 6 didn't work.

Nokia have really good cameras in their high-end phones. They can really push the hardware they have, and they have really good post processing algorithms.

Nokia have really good phone designers and good taste while all making a reliable and solid phones.

Nokia image is really consumer oriented.

[AlTech]

I think Microsoft buying Nokia phone devision was a good move (for Microsoft).

Here is why:

-> Blackberry camera sucks.

-> Blackberry phone design sucks as well, until the last model from the company, and the coming up Pur (I think that is the name).

-> Blackberry has this image of business. Something that Microsoft wanted to get away from and be consumer oriented device like Apple. Windows Phone 6 didn't work.

Nokia have really good cameras in their high-end phones. They can really push the hardware they have, and they have really good post processing algorithms.

Nokia have really good phone designers and good taste while all making a reliable and solid phones.

Nokia image is really consumer oriented.

It's called  "priv".

 

I completely agree but they weren't worth 1 Billion USD. Also Microsoft needs to kill of support for super ancient Nokia's since they are whats making WP not recieve many updates (takes a long time to port over updates to lower specced ancient devices)

[LAwLz]

Only a bunch of Windows Phone users can be excited and have a long conversation about which ringtones will ship with their future phones...
But I understand why you guys are excited. Setting a custom ringtone on WP is a pain in the ass and requires extra apps to be installed.

[SansVarnic]

Only a bunch of Windows Phone users can be excited and have a long conversation about which ringtones will ship with their future phones...

But I understand why you guys are excited. Setting a custom ringtone on WP is a pain in the ass and requires extra apps to be installed.

Not really I made most of mine with sound player in windows, just took a song and cut it down to 30sec then moved it over to my phones ringer folder and done. Easy. No app needed. Or just search for ring tones and download then from where ever.

[BobbyG2]

I just switched back to android after about a year on windows phone. WP was easier to use and more stable, but I got tired of the lack of apps and hacks I get on Android.

[s3ns3]

Not really I made most of mine with sound player in windows, just took a song and cut it down to 30sec then moved it over to my phones ringer folder and done. Easy. No app needed. Or just search for ring tones and download then from where ever.

you did what to change the ringtone? are you kidding me hahahaha

 

so you don`t have the option to just set any song as the ringtone on windows?

[SansVarnic]

you did what to change the ringtone? are you kidding me hahahaha

 

so you don`t have the option to just set any song as the ringtone on windows?

Your not making sense.

I said I used sound player to make most  of the ones I use. Of course there is a pre-loaded list of ringers and you can also download whatever from the internet and there are ringer apps you can get. WP also has a ringer maker built in but i have never used it.

[cesrai]

Wonder who's fault it is the lack of apps on microsoft store, Microsoft or the devs ? seriously how long windows phone been on market should't all the apps that are mostly avaible on android or ios also be avaible on windows phone by now ?

 

I have app to control lights at home but windows phone does't have that app, and so it continues.

I blame devs as developing for Windows Phone is supposedly easy now and MS has great support if you get any problems during development.

Not sure about this but I think MS had like a reward system where they would reward devs that got an amount of apps released but not sure. Maybe @GoodBytes knows ?

[GoodBytes]

Not sure about this but I think MS had like a reward system where they would reward devs that got an amount of apps released but not sure. Maybe @GoodBytes knows ?

I believe Microsoft stopped this program as it boosted poor quality apps.

It has to do with demand and interest. If we look at Android, a couple years back, iOS always got priority of apps over Android despite market share difference. Why? Because it was simple for developers: few phone model to test/develop reducing development cost (remember that many app developers are very small groups). Also studies and data have shown that iOS users spend more money. They click on ads more, they buy in-game/in-app purchases, they don't mind spending more money on apps. On Android, most people want free.

Android got where they are now, meaning always being considered, because Android users are VERY vocal, VERY energetic in pressuring not only an app version of their phone, but also every single little update that iOS has. So now, developers don't hesitate, iOS + Android on everything. The rest: User our web site, or here is some (many of the time, from what I am told) half ass-ed web wrapper app.

Windows Phone users needs to be vocal like this, but so far they aren't really. They did pushed mint for an app, but once they got it, they stopped. The pressure should always been on them, none stop. The developers must see: Hey people are using our app on Windows Phone, they really want it.

Now the good news: As previously mentioned in this discussion, Microsoft is working (beta stage now), a port system for Android on Windows 10 Mobile system. With a few line of codes for most apps, you can port your app. That means for POTENTIALLY (if Microsoft what they say is right in terms of time needed to spend to port apps) for 1000-2000$ 1 guy working on it, at every new Android version can port a Windows 10 Mobile version.

Now, that is pocket change. This is fantastic news. It MIGHT, just MIGHT, accelerate the process or have developers port their apps on Android more easily with Windows Phone community pressure. It will Android looking, but at least there is an app. And Windows Phone users must be willing to spend money on the app. For example, not be bothered is the app is 0.99$ on WP, but free on Android and iOS, or the price is a bit higher by 0.50$ or 1$.

Basically, what I am trying to say, is that at the end of the day. Money talks. Most developers don't have the resources for app development, and seek investors. These investors aren't interested in "hope of a platform". Investors are interested in return on investment. And that is a problem. The only people that are lazy, are teh big companies: Your Netflix, Facebook, etc. They have the money, they can give a chance to Windows Phone and Windows 10 Mobile, at a small loss.

The good news is that Facebook app is being made with partnership with Microsoft. This include Facebook massager app, and Instagram. Hopefully more will come, but having the core apps is key for starting to some level the increase of marketshare of the phone.

The big issue is the fact that you need to buy a Windows 10 Mobile in full unless you are on AT&T, or O2 (U.K), EE (U.K), or Vodafone (U.K). Maybe they are others in the world, I don't know. But in U.S and Canada you have AT&T only which are U.S only. So that doesn't help.

[dragosudeki]

I blame devs as developing for Windows Phone is supposedly easy now and MS has great support if you get any problems during development.

Think its just the cycle of reasons between devs and consumers. Devs aren't too keen with Windows Phone because there is not a big user base, and consumers don't want to switch to Windows Phone because there aren't that much app support and such. Windows Phone felt like it just came too late into the market

[Cornelious11]

What would be awesome is if Microsoft includes a Android emulator. This is not new for Microsoft. Visual Studio now has an Android emulator

https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/features/msft-android-emulator-vs.aspx

I HIGHLY doubt that Windows 10 Mobile will have that, else Preview users would be using it, but maybe (crossing fingers) Windows 10.1 Mobile. (of course, you need to exclude games, and expect lower battery life and longer app startup, but hey Android 

What about Windows Bridge for Android? (Previously known as Project Astoria)

https://dev.windows.com/en-us/bridges/android

With developer options enabled, you can install apks on a Windows Phone, provided its running WP10

[SansVarnic]

What about Windows Bridge for Android? (Previously known as Project Astoria)

https://dev.windows.com/en-us/bridges/android

With developer options enabled, you can install apks on a Windows Phone, provided its running WP10

Its still in development. Just hasn't received much in public attention.

[LAwLz]

Wonder who's fault it is the lack of apps on microsoft store, Microsoft or the devs ? seriously how long windows phone been on market should't all the apps that are mostly avaible on android or ios also be avaible on windows phone by now ?

 

I have app to control lights at home but windows phone does't have that app, and so it continues.

I blame devs as developing for Windows Phone is supposedly easy now and MS has great support if you get any problems during development.

Not sure about this but I think MS had like a reward system where they would reward devs that got an amount of apps released but not sure. Maybe @GoodBytes knows ?

You can't put the blame solely on the developers or Microsoft. They are both to blame. If you ask me I think most of the blame is on Microsoft because of how badly they fucked up WP in the beginning (which is why it never took off).

Right now it is a chicken-and-egg problem. No developer wants to spend time and money developing for WP because the audience is so small it's not worth it, and the audience won't become bigger unless apps become available.

 

Microsoft had the chance with Windows Phone 7. But WP7 was terrible. It was really behind when it was released, and Microsoft barely updated it for like a year (the major updates it got added copy/paste and CDMA support... That was it for an entire year of updates). After that year they added a few more things like updating the browser to IE9 and allowing "multi-tasking" (a really terrible version that just suspended the process). It also took them 2 years to get the OS out to a lot of other countries that weren't supported in the initial release.

Even when the OS was out it was 1 or 2 generations behind in terms of hardware because Microsoft did not support the latest things.

 

In the same time Microsoft did that, Android went from version 2.2 to version 4.1. They were just sitting on their asses picking their noses while the rest of the smartphone industry was evolving like crazy. What Microsoft should have done to succeed was to release updates much faster than Android, and on the latest and greatest hardware. But they didn't. They didn't want to give WP that much commitment and as a result nobody wanted to buy phones that ran it and the developers that were on board (which were quite a few at the start) jumped off the sinking ship. And because of that we have ended up with this bad circle of "no users => No apps => no users => no apps => ...".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Android got where they are now, meaning always being considered, because Android users are VERY vocal, VERY energetic in pressuring not only an app version of their phone, but also every single little update that iOS has. So now, developers don't hesitate, iOS + Android on everything. The rest: User our web site, or here is some (many of the time, from what I am told) half ass-ed web wrapper app.

 

Windows Phone users needs to be vocal like this, but so far they aren't really. They did pushed mint for an app, but once they got it, they stopped. The pressure should always been on them, none stop. The developers must see: Hey people are using our app on Windows Phone, they really want it.

Are you kidding me? WP users are very vocal. It's just that there are barely any people in the crowd. It's a handful of very loud and obnoxious users while on Android it was the opposite. It was a huge crowd of not so vocal people that when combined were very loud and obnoxious.

And you don't have to tell developers that you are using the app because they got the numbers already. They can see exactly how many people download their app and use it. The problem is that on WP that number is very low.

Read the comment section on this, then come back and tell me WP users aren't vocal. If you can do that with a straight face then you are the world's best liar.

The reason why nobody seems to care to develop for Windows Phone is because it only has 2.5% market share (in Q2 2015). That is almost as bad as GNU/Linux on desktops (1.74), and most developers don't give a crap about writing their programs for GNU/Linux distros either. If it had 70% market share like Android did back in 2012 then your strategy might have worked. When it's 70% of users make 70% of the noise then that's understandable. When it's 2.5% of users making 70% of the noise then it is just annoying and people want them to shut up.

[LAwLz]

What about Windows Bridge for Android? (Previously known as Project Astoria)

https://dev.windows.com/en-us/bridges/android

With developer options enabled, you can install apks on a Windows Phone, provided its running WP10

No, you can't install apks on Windows Phone 10. Windows Bridge for Android is what I explained here:

Project Astoria is not an emulator though. Astoria is a collection of APIs that are mapped to Android APIs (I believe API level 19 but I am not 100% sure). So it's more of a software compatibility layer (which will require rewriting some parts). The benefits are that it won't have as big of a performance hit (if any at all) as an emulator but the drawback is that the developers will have to put in time and effort to port their apps still.

 

You won't be able to install Android apps on Windows Phone. What it does enable is developers to reuse a lot of their Android code when making Windows Phone apps. Running the APKs would require a compatibility layer or emulator. The Windows Bridge for Android is neither of those things.