shit [REVIEW] Beyerdynamic T1 2. Generation

[spwath]

Wish I had that problem. For me, I can read the note immediately, and can then play it about 10 seconds later.

Thats odd.

 

Piano would also be usefull as I rreally dont know treble clef anymore, and when it comes up in a cello peice, i have to figure out the passage, and write in all the fingerings and such, and essentialy memorize that passage, as i dont propperly know treble clef.

[SSL]

Thats odd.

 

Piano would also be usefull as I rreally dont know treble clef anymore, and when it comes up in a cello peice, i have to figure out the passage, and write in all the fingerings and such, and essentialy memorize that passage, as i dont propperly know treble clef.

 

When I was getting my music degree, all the other instrument majors had to take two semesters of piano lessons, probably for that reason. I got to do organ instead.

 

I'm kind of joking about the notes thing, but sight-reading is not one of my strengths.

[spwath]

When I was getting my music degree, all the other instrument majors had to take two semesters of piano lessons, probably for that reason. I got to do organ instead.

I'm kind of joking about the notes thing, but sight-reading is not one of my strengths.

Organ seems interesting too.

Luckily my local area is pretty music inclined with the Eastman school of music, and the home of George Eastman (which has an organ in it, along with an elephant head on the wall.)

[Packdemon]

I wanted to see what this overcompensation of the 250-500Hz range of the Gen2 T1 looked like in a frequency response graph, but HeadRoom still hasn't posted one you on their site. What's worse is when you try to buy the Gen2 T1 from their product page you instead get the graph of the 1st Gen T1 in the description. I emailed them about that first matter and this was the response:

This is going to be a long wait for me. Maybe they'll have some graphs in the Beyerdynamic booth at CanJam SoCal.

[SSL]

I wanted to see what this overcompensation of the 250-500Hz range of the Gen2 T1 looked like in a frequency response graph, but HeadRoom still hasn't posted one you on their site. What's worse is when you try to buy the Gen2 T1 from their product page you instead get the graph of the 1st Gen T1 in the description. I emailed them about that first matter and this was the response:

 

This is going to be a long wait for me. Maybe they'll have some graphs in the Beyerdynamic booth at CanJam SoCal.

 

Just take the graph of the DT880 and imagine it with an extra 5dB added to everything below 1kHz. Thinking about it some more, I think the real issue is the boost rolls off too fast in the lower to upper midrange transition (700Hz - 1kHz or so), which causes that lower midrange to stick out and sound colored. The Sennheiser HD4x9 headphones have the same kind of problem, except its the upper midrange to highs transition. The bass boost on the original Fiio E10 also creates a similar coloration to the midrange, except due to a much smoother transition it isn't as bad.

 

Keep any eye on the headphone measurements section of superbestaudiofriends.org, I expect they'll be the first to get some data on the T1.

 

I should also note that the broadband boost to the lower frequencies was entirely due to the new pads. The foam seems denser than the EDT990V pads, and the backing has much fewer perforations - just a single row of larger holes.

[SSL]

This is my best guess at the response of the T1 gen 2:

 

[CierroMierdo]

I was assured by the beyerdynamic T1 product manager on head-fi that every T1 actually does go through a "100% quality control incl. extensive quality assurance of electrical and acoustic properties." 

I can picture it now... every evening... in the factory and execs' meeting room or something... a round table conference-ish thing with the PR team, engineers, marketing department, CEO (I honestly don't even care if those positions are pretty much the same as the other at some point between the PR and marketing), and the kitchen sink. In the middle of the table is a fuckton of crack which they always have. One faithful day, an engineer said "lets fuck it up like last time" and everyone says YES.

[xtroria]

Yeah, seriously. I think the most telling thing was the lack of awareness of the sound signature of the T1. It really is far from flat or neutral. Those new pads provide a broadband boost toeverything below about 1000Hz, which I'd say is showing the limitation of open dynamic drivers. The only way to get more bass is to throw the kitchen sink at the problem and the result is less than pretty.

Looking at FR graphs more closely, I would guess that cans like the AKG K7xx have the same problem.

What problem do you mean exactly that K7xx might have? I enjoy K7xx so far given I paid $200 for it

[SSL]

What problem do you mean exactly that K7xx might have? I enjoy K7xx so far given I paid $200 for it

 

Exactly what I described in the first post.

[GER_T4IGA]

Now, you're probably thinking that I didn't have a good enough amplifier or needed to burn in the headphones with brown noise for like 200 hours (the ding dongs on head-fi certainly thought so).

Lel, the "ding dongs" where did you get that one from?

[SSL]

Lel, the "ding dongs" where did you get that one from?

 

Read it on the internet.

[WynLore]

Strangely enough, MrSpeakers' Alpha Prime is the Planar Magnetic version of the T1.2. Only difference is that MrSpeakers includes Doggie Treats to combat the bright treble.

[Packdemon]

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/beyerdynamic-t1-gen-1-vs-gen-2-comparison.541/

[SSL]

1 hour ago, Packdemon said:

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/beyerdynamic-t1-gen-1-vs-gen-2-comparison.541/

 

Yes, those are some measurements of the "headphone" in question.

[Packdemon]

Just now, SSL said:

 

Yes, those are some measurements of the "headphone" in question.

Your own estimated graph was pretty spot on! Though, I didn't see any of the over emphasis on the 250-500Hz range that you were talking about.

[SSL]

2 hours ago, Packdemon said:

Your own estimated graph was pretty spot on! Though, I didn't see any of the over emphasis on the 250-500Hz range that you were talking about.

 

I think what I was hearing was the recessed upper mids, which causes a large rise from 500-250Hz. Very colored, very ucky as far as I'm concerned.

[Packdemon]

17 hours ago, SSL said:

 

I think what I was hearing was the recessed upper mids, which causes a large rise from 500-250Hz. Very colored, very ucky as far as I'm concerned.

So if I understand correctly, what you are trying to say is that the 250Hz end of that spectrum is louder than the 500Hz end?

[SSL]

25 minutes ago, Packdemon said:

So if I understand correctly, what you are trying to say is that the 250Hz end of that spectrum is louder than the 500Hz end?

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the whole low end (below upper-mids) is boosted, which gives it a bloated/boxy sound to my ears. So yes, 250Hz is probably higher than 500Hz. Like bass bleed, but in this case more like low mid bleed.

[sszorin]

On 20/10/2015 at 3:43 PM, SSL said:

I was going to do a full review on these headphones, including a head-to-head comparison with the DT 880 but I'm not sure there's any point.

 

Immediately after putting music through this headphone, I could hear something was off. The midrange on this headphone can only be described as "boxy", meaning an overemphasis in the 250-500Hz band.....

 

 

 

I do not understand your complaint against T1 v2. You wrote that these headphones sound "boxed in" and that  there is "an overemphasis in the 250-500Hz band." But there is a general consensus that, TO THE CONTRARY, the middle frequencies sound recessed, and not over-emphasized, compared to the previous original version. As for the alleged treble problem of T1, there is a simple mod, for some people who find the treble 'hot', which tones down the treble peak  and fixes this problem. Just google it on head-fi. I am sensitive to criminal treble, for instance I find Grado PS1000 to be an unbearable ear drill, but I hear nothing of the kind with my T1. These are fabulous headphones. But I did not start going into portable/transportable hi-fi by listening to bassy-boomy-murky sounding and treble deprived headphones [the great majority of headphones sold] and that's why the hearing section of my brain was not startled and assaulted by mildly emphasized treble of T1. Brain molding/plasticity plays role in how we hear headphones. Those whose brains are used to and conditioned to crappy sound will find normal sounding headphones as abnormal.

[sszorin]

On 23/10/2015 at 11:00 PM, SSL said:

 

I'd say worth it. It's fun to be able to sit down and toss off a piece or two. Plus if you get an electric keyboard you can use some nice headphones. Just don't get the T1 for that purpose

You mean get headphones with holes in the frequency spectrum so that when a music piece is played 'mezzo-piano' some notes in the decibel holes would sound 'pianissimo' ? T1 are flat accurate across keyboard, organ excepted when the sub-bass notes are played. Then T1 needs EQ adjustment on the lowest notes. Which electrodynamic headphones are better than T1 in this regard ?

[Octavialicious]

3 hours ago, sszorin said:

 

yeah, never quite understood his problem with T1. Maybe not the best can, but far from bad. It's on the top 5 of my list, and that's including pretty much every TOTL can on the market minus the Abyss

[SSL]

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

I do not understand your complaint against T1 v2. You wrote that these headphones sound "boxed in" and that  there is "an overemphasis in the 250-500Hz band." But there is a general consensus that, TO THE CONTRARY, the middle frequencies sound recessed, and not over-emphasized, compared to the previous original version.

 

Another review put it in perhaps a better way - the low and low-mid range on this headphone sounds "tubby and overpowering".

 

The upper-mid frequencies are recessed, as is shown in my sketch of the frequency response above.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

As for the alleged treble problem of T1, there is a simple mod, for some people who find the treble 'hot', which tones down the treble peak  and fixes this problem. Just google it on head-fi. I am sensitive to criminal treble, for instance I find Grado PS1000 to be an unbearable ear drill, but I hear nothing of the kind with my T1.

 

The T1 v2 may not be the worst offender when it comes to treble, but it isn't neutral or correct. It's easiest to pick up on stringed instruments, which sound wiry and etched. As you say regarding "brain plasticity", the problem won't be as immediately obvious if you listen to bright headphones in general. Or, if you listen to music that isn't as affected by problems in the highest register.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

These are fabulous headphones.

 

I disagree. The OP explains why. If you personally like them there is no reason for you to be here either defending the headphone or your opinion of them.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

But I did not start going into portable/transportable hi-fi by listening to bassy-boomy-murky sounding and treble deprived headphones [the great majority of headphones sold] and that's why the hearing section of my brain was not startled and assaulted by mildly emphasized treble of T1. Brain molding/plasticity plays role in how we hear headphones. Those whose brains are used to and conditioned to crappy sound will find normal sounding headphones as abnormal.

 

Would it be out of line for me to say "fuck you" at this point? You're implying that my impression of this headphone is informed by my previous use of "portable/transportable hi-fi", "bassy-boomy-murky sounding and treble deprived headphones", and my conditioning to "crappy sound". In fact, I'm a classically trained pianist with many years experience. My main headphone prior to the T1 v2 was the DT880.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

You mean get headphones with holes in the frequency spectrum so that when a music piece is played 'mezzo-piano' some notes in the decibel holes would sound 'pianissimo' ?

 

Funnily enough, my experience listening to piano through the T1 v2 was not far from that; the staging and localization were extremely off; different registers of the piano basically sounded like they were coming from different distances from the listening position, and had wildly different timbres. This could also have been an issue with channel imbalance, for which Beyerdynamic is infamous.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

T1 are flat accurate across keyboard, organ excepted when the sub-bass notes are played.

 

No, they're not. Look at my sketch above, or measurements like those here: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/beyerdynamic-t1-generation-2-measurements.527/

 

That isn't flat; and I would argue, neither is it accurate. The response is a roller coaster, and made me sick like one, too.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

Then T1 needs EQ adjustment on the lowest notes.

 

Sounds like a plan, if you enjoy audible harmonic distortion.

 

10 hours ago, sszorin said:

Which electrodynamic headphones are better than T1 in this regard ?

 

Plenty. Many of them cheaper.

 

7 hours ago, Octavialicious said:

yeah, never quite understood his problem with T1. Maybe not the best can, but far from bad. It's on the top 5 of my list, and that's including pretty much every TOTL can on the market minus the Abyss

 

I've never understood your complains about most headphones either; so we can assume that your ears and preferences are just extremely different from mine.

[sszorin]

11 hours ago, Octavialicious said:

3 hours ago, SSL said:

Cancelled, double post.

 

 

[SSL]

16 minutes ago, sszorin said:

merely pointed your error. Bass and low mids are bloated but the rest of the mids are recessed. You conflated a portion of the middle frequencies for the whole part. An honest error, probably. Nobody is going to hang you for that.

 

What error? I refer to the low-midrange simply as the "midrange" sometimes. I sincerely apologize if you went to the trouble of making an account just to point out a slight semantic misunderstanding in your part. If you actually read my OP, you can see that I make the distinction clear later on. Technically, the upper-mid suckout and lower-mid bloat makes the whole midrange sound boxy. So I stand by that statement.

 

 

The T1 v2 treble wasn't better than the DT880. Way more peaky and gross.

[sszorin]

11 hours ago, Octavialicious said:

4 hours ago, SSL said:

 

Another review put it in perhaps a better way - the low and low-mid range on this headphone sounds "tubby and overpowering".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I merely pointed your error. Bass and low mids are bloated but the rest of the mids are recessed. You conflated a portion of the middle frequencies for the whole part. An honest error, probably. Nobody is going to hang you for that. 

After that you could have saved yourself precious time and effort because I was talking about T1 and not T1 v2. So most of your reply kind of went to waste.

About DT880 - I am sorry that previously you had to use these headphones. They are not exactly a paragon of audio virtue. Coming from them it is natural that you found treble of T1 v2 better. Because it is rolled off compared to DT880 and somewhat rolled off compared to T1.

About the harmonic distortion when boosting sub bass - plus 6 or 9 dB will not distort the sound of 20-40 Hz to a degree which is obvious. You should also know that sound at these frequencies sounds already distorted, there is not much of a clean tone at that frequency level.

Kindly tell me which electrodynamic headphones, according to you, have more even frequency response than T1 and combine this balance with the quality of tones and with the size of the soundstage. I would like to see this miracle. The only other ones of this quality are HD800 and K812, but both also have problems. I would like to know what headphones [plenty ??] you regard as "better" than T1. I think you made an error with the word 'plenty".

Another thing, if classically trained pianists use the kind of language like you do then no wonder that the orchestras are struggling to survive. [But your temper might be of use, especially when the music score calls for 'vivace furioso'].