Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Windows 10 proven to spy on users, regardless of settings or system tweaks.

I came back to read some more sources but there is so much "trash talking" in those pages... I don't want to read all that, can you "OP" update the content on the front page please? Not trying to fight or anything.

I already did.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I already did.

 

Maybe I read wrong, in the last pages there were mentions of "sources" scattered through the "trash talking" pages ... I only see one source in the OP, that's why I asked sorry.

 

 

This thread is a trainwreck...

●CPU: i7-4790K w/H100i ●Mobo: MSI Z97 MPower ●RAM: Corsair 16GB Dominator ●GPU: EVGA ACX SC 780 3GB(X2) ●SSD: 850 Pro 256GB ●Case: 450D ●PSU: AX 860i ●Monitor: Asus PB278Q 1440p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I read wrong, in the last pages there were mentions of "sources" scattered through the "trash talking" pages ... I only see one source in the OP, that's why I asked sorry.

 

 

This thread is a trainwreck...

I replaced the previous source and requoted everything.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish that was true but it's not. This appears to be system wide. Typed something into the search bar in Windows? It's being sent to Microsoft along with a unique ID to indentify you.

 

It will also periodically send data to Microsoft's OneDrive server even if you have disabled OneDrive and is logged into a local user.

 

You can enable Bing search on start menu search basically, that's probably why and you can disable it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I didn't participate in this thread particularly or paid much attention as I said what I needed to say already.

But, at least on the other threads, I don't think anyone denied the tracking. What is being said is clarification of the (in my opinion) miss understanding of the privacy policy, and also highlight current market reality. And to understand that market data collecting is billion dollar industry for the big players, such as Google. And to clarify that there isn't an full profile on each person, with all their information, but rather collecting demographic data, interests, and so on to sale to market research companies, and companies directly.

Tied to it, we have the ad system, and genuine telemetry data collecting for improving the product (in the case of Microsoft, this includes Cortana voice data to improve the system ), and of course run these services (putting files on OneDrive/Google Drive/etc, means that the company has access to the data)

This is pretty much why I wasn't surprised nor care that much about it. In my honest opinion.

●CPU: i7-4790K w/H100i ●Mobo: MSI Z97 MPower ●RAM: Corsair 16GB Dominator ●GPU: EVGA ACX SC 780 3GB(X2) ●SSD: 850 Pro 256GB ●Case: 450D ●PSU: AX 860i ●Monitor: Asus PB278Q 1440p

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've yet to see you explain exactly why these sources aren't reliable or accurate. Nor have I seen you provide proof that they are indeed inaccurate. Granted, I haven't read the entire thread.

 

Then please do so; it already has been very well-established.

 

First of all, the data behind the claim was vague and no details were given. Basically, the person made a hasty conclusion by casual observation.

Perhaps I need to fill you in on the concept of the Hempel's Paradox; there are three rules that go in this order:

 

1) All ravens are black

 

2) All that is not black is not a raven

 

3) That green thing over there is an apple and therefore not a raven

 

That is an error of inductive reasoning. You may think this makes sense, if the last rule was translated to this:

 

"That green apple is not a raven because it is green"

 

But due to the sentence structure of that last law, it instead translates to this:

 

"That green apple is not a raven because it is an apple"

 

The first two rules were making a condition based on visual colour, but the third law makes a conclusion based on the type of object, which fails to correlate with the first two laws. This creates a logical fallacy, which directly related to the original source used in this OP.

 

Others have also covered very thoroughly about the lack of credibility with the source site itself. I did not mention it because I had assumed that people would have known of this common sense matter.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unsupported claims from untrustworthy news sources do not constitute news.

 

Moved to Operating Systems and Software.

I have replaced the source with the Ars Technica article. Can you move it back?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So what you are telling me then is that you came into this discussion with a predisposed bias, whereas I and many others have checked the source and questioned it's credibility.

That still puts you in a bad position in respects to this thread.

Ehm... What? It sounds like you haven't read my posts at all and wants me to be biased. I am not.

 

Here is my post again since you apparently didn't read it:

Haven't read this thread or the article yet but let me guess, the Microsoft Defense Force is saying:

1) Only criminals need privacy. You got nothing to fear if you got nothing to hide.

2) Other companies such as Google does this too so therefore it is totally okay for Microsoft to do it.

3) The source isn't good enough. I saw something about 35MB being sent when you plug in a webcam as a claim and I am sure they will go "oh but it's encrypted so we don't know what data it is, so therefore you can't say that they are spying!", as if sending big amounts of data when you plug in a camera isn't evidence enough on its own, and hiding what data is being sent only further incriminates them.

 

 

With that being said, don't take things written on the Internet as facts without looking into them for yourself. It could be bullshit, but just dismissing it outright because you don't like the source is foolish. You don't sit down waiting in a theater when someone shouts "FIRE FIRE!", demanding that a certified fireman examine the fire to validate that the building is indeed on fire.

 

I listed the 3 fallacies that always gets brought up whenever someone claims Microsoft are spying on their users. I listed them not because I think the claims in the OP were correct, but because they are horrible arguments which somehow always makes their way into the conversation when no rational person should ever have any thoughts like them to begin with.

 

Then when I had listed those 3 bullshit arguments I went on to say that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet, and the claims should be investigated further. They have now been further investigated by reliable sources and they were found to be correct.

 

 

 

 

You can enable Bing search on start menu search basically, that's probably why and you can disable it.

Read the Ars technica article. It doesn't matter if you disable it or not. Microsoft will still collect what you type and send it to their server.

Turning it off doesn't actually turn the data collection part off.

Link to post
Share on other sites

-snip-

 

You can try to dance around the terminology as much as you want; that is still a predisposed bias at the end of the day, whether you want to admit it or not.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I say let them collect data I've nothing to hide, that's why this post was made via carrier pigeon to a commodore 64 running on MS-DOS and dial up in Antarctica.

Then why don't you make a thread on the Off-Topic forum with all of your personal information? Make sure to include pictures of you showering, sleeping, watching porn, etc.

 

If you don't, then I think that's sufficient proof that you do have something to hide.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I say let them collect data I've nothing to hide, that's why this post was made via carrier pigeon to a commodore 64 running on MS-DOS and dial up in Antarctica.

 

Even then you would probably end up being spied on. :ph34r:

●CPU: i7-4790K w/H100i ●Mobo: MSI Z97 MPower ●RAM: Corsair 16GB Dominator ●GPU: EVGA ACX SC 780 3GB(X2) ●SSD: 850 Pro 256GB ●Case: 450D ●PSU: AX 860i ●Monitor: Asus PB278Q 1440p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then why don't you make a thread on the Off-Topic forum with all of your personal information? Make sure to include pictures of you showering, sleeping, watching porn, etc.

 

If you don't, then I think that's sufficient proof that you do have something to hide.

Microsoft is collecting images of me showering, sleeping, and watching porn? And handing it out to the public?

Whoa, yeah I might leave Windows 10 now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You can try to dance around the terminology as much as you want; that is still a predisposed bias at the end of the day, whether you want to admit it or not.

The following statements:

 

"Saying that "I have nothing to fear because I'm not doing anything wrong" is an illogical statement"

" "Other companies and governments do it to, so it's okay" doesn't make it okay" "

 

Are opinions, not bias.

 

As for whether or not the source is valid.

 

From what I've read

Also, I might as well say that everyone is right for doubting these claims. The original author didn't provide any specifics or reproduce-able tests, probably to try keeping people from proving he's full of shit if these claims are false and he's just scaremongering, so I'd rather wait until more verifiable results come out and for Microsoft's official word on the issue. Also, I'm pretty sure you'd notice 80MB of data being uploaded to MS every 15 minutes, especially if you have a slower connection, like most rural parts of the United States or the entirety of Australia, or have data caps. Or, worst case scenario, both.

 

Not that Microsoft's gained any trust, but we saw what happened with the Xbox One. People hated the console as it originally was. Microsoft listened and did a complete 180. Same thing with Windows XP, people hated that OS until SP2 launched in 2004, three years after the initial release. There's nothing saying MS won't do that again.

did anyone go check out the original article?

 

all transfers of data to Microsoft servers are encrypted and not without some deeper reverse engineering can figure out what's actually sent.

 

The only legitimate thing in there, that is factual, is "we don't know what's actually being sent". Other than that, all I see is people maligning a news source based on their own opinions, which is even more ridiculous considering that the claims were verified by other sources.

 

Yes, that website might be the European equivalent to infowars (which even I find to be a somewhat ridiculous website, considering my own biases), but guess what? It doesn't matter, because their information was backed up by information from other websites.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/13/windows-10-sends-identifiable-data-microsoft-despite-privacy-settings

 

Yes, the original source used in the original post of this thread may have come from an unreliable website similar to inforwars, fox news, cnn, or msnbc, but even a broken clock can still be correct on occasion. The simple facts are this.

 

The original claims have been verified by ars technica

We don't know what information is being sent

We don't know how well that information is being secured

We don't have ANY CONTROL WHAT-SO-EVER over what Microsoft does with that data.

And in all likelihood, Microsoft probably has something in the EULA that exempts them from liability, should your data be compromised. Meaning you have no legal recourse.

 

That last one is the main problem I have with all of this. Yes, MS might only be using your data for advertising purposes, no surprises there. What's concerning is WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE ELSE GETS A HOLD OF IT. You have no way of knowing what was lost or compromised, nor do you have the right to take MS to court over it, should any financial or social harm come to you (identity theft).

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

Link to post
Share on other sites

 You can try to dance around the terminology as much as you want; that is still a predisposed bias at the end of the day, whether you want to admit it or not.

How is it a "predisposed bias"? All I did was comment on what I thought other peoples' reactions would be, without taking side on the actual content of any posts.

If I open an Apple thread and go "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", does that mean I am biased towards Apple too? It doesn't make any sense.

 

In order for my post to be biased I would have to have picked side, but I didn't.

You're talking nonsense right now because you want me to be biased, but I am not. I even said in my post that you shouldn't blindly trust what you read on the Internet, and should investigate it yourself. That's as unbiased as you can possibly be.

I mean come on... How can I be biased when I didn't pick a side in my original post? That's a prerequirement to being biased. To actually have picked a side. You can't be biased in that you are neutral until we have valid evidence to support either side.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then why don't you make a thread on the Off-Topic forum with all of your personal information? Make sure to include pictures of you showering, sleeping, watching porn, etc.

 

If you don't, then I think that's sufficient proof that you do have something to hide.

 

Trust me, NO ONE wants me to do that. lol 

 

 

... and now I feel sorry for the Microsoft worker assigned to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The original claims have been verified by ars technica

We don't know what information is being sent

We don't know how well that information is being secured

We don't have ANY CONTROL WHAT-SO-EVER over what Microsoft does with that data.

And in all likelihood, Microsoft probably has something in the EULA that exempts them from liability, should your data be compromised. Meaning you have no legal recourse.

 

That last one is the main problem I have with all of this. Yes, MS might only be using your data for advertising purposes, no surprises there. What's concerning is WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE ELSE GETS A HOLD OF IT. You have no way of knowing what was lost or compromised, nor do you have the right to take MS to court over it, should any financial or social harm come to you (identity theft).

The claims are stuff is being sent, but we don't know what. It is quite obvious that MS is going to do that. 

If it turns out they are storing your creditcards, then there's an issue.

They know what type of information you are typing. They have filters that know you typed a DOB, CC, SSN, etc. I'm on the side that is doubting that they actually store that specific information. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

How is it a "predisposed bias"? All I did was comment on what I thought other peoples' reactions would be, without taking side on the actual content of any posts.

If I open an Apple thread and go "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", does that mean I am biased towards Apple too? It doesn't make any sense.

 

In order for my post to be biased I would have to have picked side, but I didn't.

You're talking nonsense right now because you want me to be biased, but I am not. I even said in my post that you shouldn't blindly trust what you read on the Internet, and should investigate it yourself. That's as unbiased as you can possibly be.

 

Don't be dense.

 

When you make the statement that "let me guess... XXX is just doing YYY", you are coming in with an assumption, which is what a predisposed bias is in a nutshell.

 

When you say "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", you are approaching the matter from the strongly optimistic perspective. With it, when you say the equivalent for the "Microsoft Defence Force", you are taking a strongly pessimistic view on the matter of discussion.

 

You can make the claim of reviewing the sources for yourself, but when the first comment made is of the above, it does not do a lot of good.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because it's linux and you can do whatever you want with it, including removing that spyware.

Yes, that's the difference between Ubuntu and Windows : when you disable the Internet search results in Ubuntu, there's no data being transferred to some random server. It seems it's not the case with Windows 10. Also the 'spying feature' in Ubuntu will be removed when Unity 8 launches (16.04 probably).

Since the OP complies with the rules regarding tech news now, I think it should be switched back.

Why is SpongeBob the main character when Patrick is the star?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The claims are stuff is being sent, but we don't know what. It is quite obvious that MS is going to do that. 

If it turns out they are storing your creditcards, then there's an issue.

They know what type of information you are typing. They have filters that know you typed a DOB, CC, SSN, etc. I'm on the side that is doubting that they actually store that specific information. 

I did point out that we don't know what is being sent, saved, stored, or used. Which is one of the larger problems here.

 

There is a possibility, in my mind, that they are collecting and storing financial information. For what purpose you might ask? Simple, marketing. Why advertise a product to someone that can't afford it, when you could collect data and maybe advertise something they can afford.

 

Pure speculation of course, but still, I think it's possible. If I remember correctly, there was a news article about another company doing something similar a while back, I want to say it was google, but I can't remember for sure and I'm not finding it anywhere.

 

 

Yes, that's the difference between Ubuntu and Windows : when you disable the Internet search results in Ubuntu, there's no data being transferred to some random server. It seems it's not the case with Windows 10. Also the 'spying feature' in Ubuntu will be removed when Unity 8 launches (16.04 probably).

Since the OP complies with the rules regarding tech news now, I think it should be switched back.

 

I wouldn't count on it. A mod would have to go through and clean this thread entirely of all the crap that's in it. Too much work to be worthwhile.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that's the difference between Ubuntu and Windows : when you disable the Internet search results in Ubuntu, there's no data being transferred to some random server. It seems it's not the case with Windows 10. Also the 'spying feature' in Ubuntu will be removed when Unity 8 launches (16.04 probably).

Since the OP complies with the rules regarding tech news now, I think it should be switched back.

I already quoted both @GoodBytes and Blade of Grass (no idea how to mention someone with spaces) about this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

-snip-

 

Making a remark about the "Microsoft Defence Force" is predisposed bias, as explained earlier, as it demonstrates that you have arrived at a topic with an assumption.

 

Also, you seem to miss the key point of why the original OP source was irrelevant. We can agree that the information on the original source is incoherent. But here is the thing, the newer citations prove the very general point of the source article, not the source article itself nor the specifics behind it. If you want to now write this up in a technical document, you could include the ArsTechnica source, but putting in the original makes no sense at all as it by itself is still not verified.

 

To repeat; this is documentation 101. Considering the field of study that you are currently taking, you should have known better.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I already quoted both @GoodBytes and Blade of Grass (no idea how to mention someone with spaces) about this.

I also find it funny people are criticizing you for talking about Linux in the OP ("Linux fanboys everywhere" and stuff like that).

The rules regarding tech news clearly reads "tell the reader why it is relevant to them, and what your personal opinion on the topic is." which is exactly what you've done.

Why is SpongeBob the main character when Patrick is the star?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×