Microsoft just made millions from Windows XP

[Cookie Monster]

Honestly the amount the US spends of 'defence' surely they could afford to re-train staff to use a more secure OS, that and upgrade the software from legacy status.

The military keep their defence systems for decades, the B52 is 60 years old, and it is prohibitively expensive to retrain your operators every 2 or 3 years assuming the computer hardware can cope. If it needs replacing it quickly becoming cheaper to replace the whole system than upgrade; the space shuttle stuck with its late 70s computers throughout its entire life for this very reason.

[Guest]

That is not what is going on - clickbait much. Microsoft offer these deals on 4 conditions; minimum number of seats - usually 1000+, genuine reasons to require it, an upgrade plan being in place to roll over to current generation software and the cost gets progressively more each year. Most of the Australian government are on similar EA's with Microsoft. They've got until 2017 to roll over from 2003/XP to 2012/Windows 8. Microsoft offer them support until then but they must prove that they're moving forward with the software change.

[MatthewEnderle]

And yet a few European (French, German, Spanish) & the chinese governments have moved to linux . . . .

 

 

Honestly the amount the US spends of 'defence' surely they could afford to re-train staff to use a more secure OS, that and upgrade the software from legacy status.

 

 

The Airforce and navy do use linux for our systems. Some software is only compatible on windows as well. We can't use anything like wine either.

[Dabombinable]

 

 

 

The Airforce and navy do use linux for our systems. Some software is only compatible on windows as well. We can't use anything like wine either.

 

That I understand, but still though. That's quite a few computers that still run XP.

[Yog]

I think this has little to nothing to do with retraining and everything to do with specialty software that was written for early windows and XP is the last windows version capable of using software from that era. If they wanted to get new versions of windows or linux they would have to create new software, which may or may not be compatible with older military equipment. For now it's cheaper to just pay for continued support.

[MatthewEnderle]

That I understand, but still though. That's quite a few computers that still run XP.

When you are in the military and some of the software is older than you on the jet, you understand why you can't have the latest and greatest.

Functionality/Quality (FQ) > Current Technology Level (CTL)

[GoldSrc]

This news reminded me of this lol.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/29/the-u-s-army-got-caught-pirating-180-million-in-software-its-settling-for-50-million/

[evilarceus]

Microsoft doesn't care, they want to make BILLIONS

[AlwaysFSX]

That is not what is going on - clickbait much. Microsoft offer these deals on 4 conditions; minimum number of seats - usually 1000+, genuine reasons to require it, an upgrade plan being in place to roll over to current generation software and the cost gets progressively more each year. Most of the Australian government are on similar EA's with Microsoft. They've got until 2017 to roll over from 2003/XP to 2012/Windows 8. Microsoft offer them support until then but they must prove that they're moving forward with the software change.

The only reason why they're doing this is for the time period to swap and develop all their software for non-XP systems. Something pretty much everyone just doesn't know.

[Nowak]

And yet a few European (French, German, Spanish) & the chinese governments have moved to linux . . . .

This is true, but

 

Linux Support is actually just as - if not even more - expensive compared to Windows Support.

 

That's one of the reasons why the major Linux Distros can offer a free version, is because Support Contracts cost extra, where they are included with the cost of Windows/Windows Server.

 

Not to mention good Linux SysAdmins are costly to employ.

 

Linux isn't "magically free" for corporations/governments/government agencies. Sure, there's no upfront purchase cost, but there are a ton of other costs many people don't think about.

 

For starters, the cost of retraining 100,000 people to use Linux - most of which, have probably never touched a Linux computer in their life (Not counting Android, since it's so fundamentally different on the UI side of things). Next you've got the support contract, the cost of employing good specialized Linux IT personnel, etc.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the cost Linux vs Microsoft for a corporation, isn't really very different.

At the same time, this is also true. It may be free, but supporting Linux isn't free, as Munich as an example had to learn the hard way.

[sgloux3470]

Yes, some people, including older people, will require no retraining, but you're seriously underestimating the amount of people who will need retraining. I work as part of a small corporate IT team for a library, and we have ~50-75 employees. Most of them barely know how to sign into their user account, ONLY if their user name is already present (seriously, if a different user name is on the screen, they get confused). Many of them barely know how to use Windows XP/7 in the most basic sense, doing many things wrong or inefficiently.

 

I wouldn't try retraining my staff on Linux, as it would be a glorified shit-show of problems. The adaption and learning curve would be immense.

 

So sure, some users might switch no problem... They aren't the ones that cost money. It's the rest of them, that "click on the big 'E' to launch internet".

 

Technical fields are a bit different.  With chemistry it's not uncommon to have to learn a new software package for new instruments on the regular.  I met lots of 40-50 year olds who have been doing the job for decades who were able to pick this stuff up. Granted, they're using software for a very particular task and don't need to know the complete inner workings to run daily workloads (although calibration and troubleshooting tend to require a bit more effort from someone on staff) but I can't imagine something like the Navy being much different, the legacy software is most likely specially written stuff for technical gizmos afterall.

[.:MARK:.]

Whilst people here seem to make very good points on the personnel using the computer facilities finding it difficult to complete a certain task, I'd say that rolling over infrastructure takes time and money, and they are willing to pay microsoft for the opportunity to spend more time on planning. You cannot expect the US defence to just upgrade all computers (physically and software) overnight, the costs are huge and the number of little issues will be huge, I'm not too concerned that it's the personnel that is the issue but more that critical infrastructure cannot suffer significant downtime and they cannot risk it.

[Toddskins]

What I find most interesting is not one of you made mention of how  MS swore off XP support, forcing XP consumers into a new Operating System (and soon Windows 7), and yet here is evidence (and who knows how many other companies have been getting continued support for their XP computers) that the support has always been in place.
 

I've always suspected this, but the US Navy report confirms it.

So with this news, why can't existing XP users continue to get the latest patches and fixes for their computers?  No need to answer.

And then, too, MS saying they are not going to give DX12 support to Windows 7.  Ugly behavior of MS.  I'm sure they already have the kinks worked out and working for Windows 7, but they want to strongarm people into new expenditures - yes, time on a learning curve is also an expenditure, especially when you are perfectly happy with your existing system.

[Guest]

What I find most interesting is not one of you made mention of how  MS swore off XP support, forcing XP consumers into a new Operating System (and soon Windows 7), and yet here is evidence (and who knows how many other companies have been getting continued support for their XP computers) that the support has always been in place.

 

I've always suspected this, but the US Navy report confirms it.

So with this news, why can't existing XP users continue to get the latest patches and fixes for their computers?  No need to answer.

And then, too, MS saying they are not going to give DX12 support to Windows 7.  Ugly behavior of MS.  I'm sure they already have the kinks worked out and working for Windows 7, but they want to strongarm people into new expenditures - yes, time on a learning curve is also an expenditure, especially when you are perfectly happy with your existing system.

See above. Microsoft have offered companies the option because they can't change overnight. They must provide proof that they're upgrading and have until either the end of 2017 or end of 2018 to have moved on to atleast Windows 8/Server 2012. The cost to do this though is huge and gets bigger each year with the EA's they have.

 

Source: I sell Microsoft licenses, both Open (sub 500) and EA which is what the US Navy will be on.

[DeScruff]

Moving to a new OS is quite a big deal. Way to much can go wrong even with software that is labeled to be "compatible" and those problems don't always show themselves until a few months in. Then diagnosing/fixing those problems can get to be time consuming and expensive.

I just remember the issues I had with a local jewelry store's engraving machine a year ago. Long story short: Upgrading the engraving machine just because an old computer broke was out of the question due to costs. The software said "XP compatible" but it had weird issues on Windows XP that seemingly happened at random - Not something you want to happen when your engraving a +$1000 ring - and was a PITA to diagnose. So we ended up doing some "unprofessional" work that involved hand soldiering and zip ties to revive the 1997 PC.

That was just an engraving machine, I can't imagine all that could go wrong with how much equipment that a Military ship has.

[TAK]

.

[dalekphalm]

Why train them to use Linux? They don't have to. They don't even need to know which OS they are using... if they know to begin with.

 

Most of these people use a few, very specific, programs, which won't change when OS changes (of course that depends on the people who coded them to begin with... with that said, they did so for a shit OS to begin with... pray they people hired to fix their shitty code know what they're doing...). All these people need to know is what buttons to press in order to get to their familiar program, even monkeys can learn that... oh, wait, we're talking of the US Navy... Brace for impact! Nukes inbound (to random countries)...

 

Anyway, my point is, stop talking shit about having to train the drones to do their drone work, for them nothing changes. Background services and personel, well, that is a whole different ballgame.

Have you ever worked corporate IT? Because it seriously doesn't sound like it. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

The OS makes a huge difference. Retraining the "drones" on "which buttons to press" to get to their familiar program... THAT is harder then you might think for many of those users.

 

They know how to do a very specific thing to open said program. They've likely done the same thing for 10 years, more or less. Even minor changes in their "routine" for how to open a program (Like the difference between "All Programs" in the Windows 7 start menu vs the Windows XP start menu") can be a challenge for many of them.

 

Not to mention, since we're talking about the "cost" of moving to Linux, how is this legacy Windows program going to suddenly work on Linux? Oh, it might already have a Linux version... but probably not. So that means spending even more money porting it to Linux, or finding a suitable replacement, THEN spending even more money training the "drones" (as you so eloquently call them) on how to use this new program.

 

The bottom line of my point is that Linux, as an OS, might not cost money to purchase, but there is definitely a cost in migrating. A big cost that many people here seem to completely ignore.

[Toddskins]

See above. Microsoft have offered companies the option because they can't change overnight. They must provide proof that they're upgrading and have until either the end of 2017 or end of 2018 to have moved on to atleast Windows 8/Server 2012. The cost to do this though is huge and gets bigger each year with the EA's they have.

 

Source: I sell Microsoft licenses, both Open (sub 500) and EA which is what the US Navy will be on.

Your source, you being an MS seller, changes not a thing about what I wrote.

If the fixes have been developed, are already being "sold" to others, then it's an outright lie that XP, and soon Windows 7, cannot continue to be used.  If it's been done for one, it's been done for all.  But "all" are not allowed.

[Guest]

Your source, you being an MS seller, changes not a thing about what I wrote.

If the fixes have been developed, are already being "sold" to others, then it's an outright lie that XP, and soon Windows 7, cannot continue to be used.  If it's been done for one, it's been done for all.  But "all" are not allowed.

Support for XP has ended. Support for EA's incorporating XP will continue - they're two different things.

[Jasmin]

Wait, what? My grandma had more computer skills than the people in your IT team, and she only learned to use a computer when she was 70.

I've seen my fair share of computer illiterate people, but all of them don't have issues logging in at least.

I'll take your word for it, but I've never seen someone who had to work at a computer all day and didn't have at least basic knowledge about using it.

Unfortunately i can sign under this statement - supporting several large US corporations, that make billions of dollars in income a year, i can easely say that 99.9% of employees working full time on a pc are completely pc illiterate. Workers on the line are unable to tell laser engraver from ink printer while using them all the time. When single sign on broke, management called provoding credentials a fake workaround, as most people didnt even know their own username and apparently being asked for such was too stressful - they juet never turned off their pcs.

Switching from IE to chrome entailed full day of training for every user - mind you they only use imported links, no additional fancy stuff

[Elapo]

Unfortunately i can sign under this statement - supporting several large US corporations, that make billions of dollars in income a year, i can easely say that 99.9% of employees working full time on a pc are completely pc illiterate. Workers on the line are unable to tell laser engraver from ink printer while using them all the time. When single sign on broke, management called provoding credentials a fake workaround, as most people didnt even know their own username and apparently being asked for such was too stressful - they juet never turned off their pcs.

Switching from IE to chrome entailed full day of training for every user - mind you they only use imported links, no additional fancy stuff

Question:

Is basic ICT taught in schools in the US?

[TAK]

.

[Jasmin]

Question:

Is basic ICT taught in schools in the US?

I have absolutely no idea. In poland you have 3-6 years of ICT (1 hour a week), during which we managed to cover colouring tat in MS Paint, and writing essays in MS Works. Not kidding.

 

Considering that throughout the world US elementary and high school ed is perceived as the worst among 1st world countries, I doubt much more is being covered there. That would explain why consoles are so popular in the us

 

One more anecdote from work - manager of the entire worldwide IT in one of those corps would input site address in google search, thinking it is address bar.

[Elapo]

I have absolutely no idea. In poland you have 3-6 years of ICT (1 hour a week), during which we managed to cover colouring tat in MS Paint, and writing essays in MS Works. Not kidding.

 

Considering that throughout the world US elementary and high school ed is perceived as the worst among 1st world countries, I doubt much more is being covered there. That would explain why consoles are so popular in the us

 

One more anecdote from work - manager of the entire worldwide IT in one of those corps would input site address in google search, thinking it is address bar.

 

In belgium we get something of 3 years with 1 hour every week, covering topics from hardware (yes, we actually need to know what RAM and CPU do) What is considered hardware and what is software to basic OS tasks (windows XP in my case) and the basics of word, excel, powerpoint and even a bit of access. It was kinda outdated, but still useful. It's one of the things that sparked my interest in computers.

 

That was the basic stuff. There were study paths that focused on office work, they received even more in-depth training. Sure, they still had no idea how to install a computer or what cable goes where, but the software knowledge is there, at least.

 

Maybe that's why I've never met someone who doesn't even know how to log on.

[dalekphalm]

Unfortunately i can sign under this statement - supporting several large US corporations, that make billions of dollars in income a year, i can easely say that 99.9% of employees working full time on a pc are completely pc illiterate. Workers on the line are unable to tell laser engraver from ink printer while using them all the time. When single sign on broke, management called provoding credentials a fake workaround, as most people didnt even know their own username and apparently being asked for such was too stressful - they juet never turned off their pcs.

Switching from IE to chrome entailed full day of training for every user - mind you they only use imported links, no additional fancy stuff

I can agree with this. I've had similar experiences (On a smaller scale, mind you, only around ~75 users normally here).

 

Question:

Is basic ICT taught in schools in the US?

Yes, but that's not really the problem. The average user of a Corporate Network (Eg: A big company) is in their 40's+. Affordable Personal Computers weren't around when they were in Elementary/High School. Many of them had never seen a computer until College or even Post-College (Eg: Years later, in the workforce).

 

Once we get past the "Baby Boomer" phase of this generation, these kinds of issues will be significantly reduced, since all the people who grew up with no computers will have retired.

 

But it won't entirely eliminate the problem, since some users are just plain computer illiterate, regardless of age.

 

Considering how these people are talking, apparently not.

 

 

 

It is not. Stop lying. I see if happen every day, have seen it for 15+ years. Maybe the people you've dealt with have been in the wrong job to begin with.

Okay buddy. I guess we can't have a serious discussion here, since you just resort to baseless rants that have no basis in reality. Ask any IT professional who works for a medium to large size business, since you "apparently" don't believe myself nor any of the other users who corroborate my findings with their own experiences.

 

If you want to proverbially plug your ears and go "lalalalala", I can't stop you.

 

I have absolutely no idea. In poland you have 3-6 years of ICT (1 hour a week), during which we managed to cover colouring tat in MS Paint, and writing essays in MS Works. Not kidding.

 

Considering that throughout the world US elementary and high school ed is perceived as the worst among 1st world countries, I doubt much more is being covered there. That would explain why consoles are so popular in the us

 

One more anecdote from work - manager of the entire worldwide IT in one of those corps would input site address in google search, thinking it is address bar.

I'm not sure what the current rules are, in terms of mandatory computer classes in US Schools (Would vary per State), but here in Canada, there are some basic classes taught to all students, in which you learn MS Word, and not much else. There are, however, optional Computer Science classes, generally starting in High School, that offer more in-depth PC education - though even these tend to focus on Computer Programming, and generally "assume" that the student already knows a decent amount about a PC.

 

With that in mind, there are going to be regional differences, and even differences between schools in the same area. Not to mention, I haven't been in school for a while, so it has likely changed since then