Dismounting 1440p Monitor Surprising

[skullbringer]

Right at the start I have to say: Raise your Don..., wait, no. (just kidding) 

 

I am upset, groggy, my head is a pile of random thoughts, but I have to write this right now. I just dismounted my 27" cheapo korean monitor. Its a Yamakasi Q270B OC edition. It costs around double of what a non-OC grade cheapo monitor costs. Just to explain the reason for being 700 USD and more is the special circuit board of the monitor, that allows overclocking the monitor to a refresh rate of up to 132 Hz, depending on how good the circuit board is (kind of silicon lottery).

Considering it using an LG IPS panel, that is used in all the fancy 27" apple monitors, this is pretty respectable. Because high refresh rates and ips picture quality dont usually go together, right? So paying an extra 350 dollars for the unique 1440p IPS 120Hz experience is justifiable and worth it. Right?  (it really looks good, even though there is a lot of motion blur compared to comparable 120 Hz TN monitors, I was very happy with the compromise I chose with buying this monitor about half a year ago. )

 

Lets look at the pictures I took with crappy lighting and my Galaxy S4 camera ( :\ )

 

Going from left to right you can see the bezel of the shell, the stand and all the screws, An unnecessary silver plastic piece that gave it a more stylish look, but was blocking the vesa mounts on the back. Then there is the back shell with the circuit board laying on it, and finally the big silver thing is the panel its self.

 

 

Theres the panel its self with the power connector cable on the right and two connectors at the top mid for the actual image signal. It weighs about 4 kilograms and is mounted to the plastic shell with four m3x10mm screws. (°_°)

 

 

The label clearly shows that it is the LM270WQ1 by LG.

 

 

The vesa mounts are two pieces of thin metal with threads, held in place by plastic rivits, just molten stamped down plastic. And that is supposed to lift like 6 kilogramms ?!

 

 

The quite simple looking pcb is mounted to a piece of thin metal...

 

 

...which is used to keep the panel from flying around inside the chassis, but is actually quite bendable #LinusBendTest

 

 

I have asked google for some panel side to vesa mounts, so I would not need the plastic shell at all. I found this: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/710593724/27panel_screen_LM270WQ1_SDE3_for_apple.html

So you can get them for 30-100 USD, considering that this is a trading company and not the actual manufacturer and depending on the number you order. So the production cost may be about 25 USD.

 

The circuit board doesnt look any different from the ones used in simple fan controllers or computer case I/Os. Maybe around 10 USD production cost. 

 

The stand / case, depending on what you are going for. It  4 screws to mount the panel to some slices of metal, then some crossbar metal bar that these mount to and some kind of stand. Alternatively you could just add a 10x10cm plate of metal with threads for vesa mounting. Cost: maybe 10-15 dollars.

 

So to sum up, LG as the panel manufacteur could build these for what? 50 USD ?!

Some guy starting a company with a budget of 10000 USD could get the materials for what ? 120 bucks? Produce 10 monitors a day and sell them for 200-300. So he would have 

a revenue of 100 dollars per monitor. Making 1000 bucks a day. He could hire people and like earn LOADS of money. You can get the materials, anybody can.

 

My mind puts out:

Even converting the money you pay extra for a cheapo monitor on ebay into the time it would take researching for materials, contacting suppliers and building your own monitor, you would save money. 

 

Its so rediculous!!! Like TTL would say, "I need to wrap my head around this and think about it."

 

But like: Where is my 1440p 120Hz gaming optimized monitor from an actual company like LG ??? Where are the 4K monitors for like 300 bucks, when they can make 1080p panels for phones for what? 30 USD production cost?!

Even though I am not a dumbass and I know the industry quite a bit, I was literally MINDBLOWN when I looked inside my monitor this night and I could imagine you are, too. Its like the NSA thing, where you know they spy on you, but when you actually get to know how much, you are damn suprised.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts on this? I would love to hear what guys like Linus, that are in the industry for many years, think about it. Still surprised, or just accepting it the way it is ?!

[Emperor_Piehead]

Interesting read and pics. The metal reflects the price, but wow what bend. The reason why we don't have big companies having fast 1440p screens is look at who those monitors are aimed at. The 2 big ones are the Dell U2713HM and the Asus PB278Q; they are both aimed at people who do lots of color work.

[EChondo]

If you looked around the monitor section you would know the type of quality these panels and monitors really are.

 

I bet Goodbytes will show up and copy and paste one of his famous responses he has written so many times before.

[skullbringer]

Interesting read and pics. The metal reflects the price, but wow what bend. The reason why we don't have big companies having fast 1440p screens is look at who those monitors are aimed at. The 2 big ones are the Dell U2713HM and the Asus PB278Q; they are both aimed at people who do lots of color work.

 

IMHO, that production quality for 700 dollars is not justifiable, as Samsung and Asus monitors are. I d disagree with you about whom they are aimed for. For color work there are 8-bit monitors like the PA248, I believe. They should be aimed for replacing 1080p as a standard, but noone buys them for 700 bucks, so it doesnt become a standard and the prices stay at 700, so noone buys it, etc.  

[skullbringer]

If you looked around the monitor section you would know the type of quality these panels and monitors really are.

 

I bet Goodbytes will show up and copy and paste one of his famous responses he has written so many times before.

 

I would love to get to know him and his opinion. I just got into the whole topic

[Emperor_Piehead]

IMHO, that production quality for 700 dollars is not justifiable, as Samsung and Asus monitors are. I d disagree with you about whom they are aimed for. For color work there are 8-bit monitors like the PA248, I believe. They should be aimed for replacing 1080p as a standard, but noone buys them for 700 bucks, so it doesnt become a standard and the prices stay at 700, so noone buys it, etc.  

The Dell U2713HM is a 8-bit monitor I know I have one. Samsung and similar companies haven't had much pressure to be cheap most mainstream programs are still 720p like a lot of youtube videos. The price is very steep, but once they lowered that what would be there high end platform?  

[skullbringer]

The Dell U2713HM is a 8-bit monitor I know I have one. Samsung and similar companies haven't had much pressure to be cheap most mainstream programs are still 720p like a lot of youtube videos. The price is very steep, but once they lowered that what would be there high end platform?  

 

4K, and even that is soo cheap to manufacture. 

[JAKEBAB]

it would be really interesting and helpful if u bough a bare panel and made a monitor and showed us how to do it our selves or if anyone else could do this.

here is a link for a single panel $80 http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/571168115/LM270WQ1_SDC1_Replacement_lcd_screen.html

[Glenwing]

The motion blur is why there are no 120Hz IPS monitors by actual companies such as LG.  IPS panels are not physically capable of switching 120 times a second, even if you overclock the signalling, the panel will not be able to finish switching from one color to the next before the next signal instructs it to switch again, resulting in a constant blur, or the monitor dropping frames.

[skullbringer]

it would be really interesting and helpful if u bough a bare panel and made a monitor and showed us how to do it our selves or if anyone else could do this.

here is a link for a single panel $80 http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/571168115/LM270WQ1_SDC1_Replacement_lcd_screen.html

 

I will look into it.

 

 

The motion blur is why there are no 120Hz monitors by actual companies such as LG.  IPS panels are not physically capable of switching 120 times a second, even if you overclock the signalling, the panel will not be able to finish switching from one color to the next before the next signal instructs it to switch again, resulting in a constant blur, or the monitor dropping frames.

 

 

Yes, I know, but its not just about 120Hz IPS, its about monitors costing what they should not. 1440p IPS 60Hz for 700 dollars is kind of insane, considering the actual manufacturing cost.

[LAwLz]

100 dollars for the panel, maybe 150 dollars for the rest (stand, backlight, license for DVI and HDMI, and so on), a few dollars for shipping and such, testing and manufacturing costs a bit, let's say 30 dollars for those things. It probably costs them something like 300 dollars to make one of these displays (I am probably a bit on the high side but you get the point). I don't think 600 dollars is unreasonable. It's not just the panel that costs money, and they want to make money as well.

[Lays]

If you looked around the monitor section you would know the type of quality these panels and monitors really are.

 

I bet Goodbytes will show up and copy and paste one of his famous responses he has written so many times before.

 

 

It's not really a matter of the quality of the monitors, I can't imagine it costs much more than a 1080p screen to make, and 1080p screens can be bought for as low as 100$ on some sites, so why the hell is 1440p an upwards of 600$ USD for a good brand-name.

[stevv]

I'm surprised people don't use the crossover versions and put a upgraded board.  The build on them is much better, at least all metal back (lots of screws) and easy vesa mounting.  I have a crossover 27q and I had to take it apart to fix a loose connection.  At the same time, if clear 120hz is not possible due to the panels,  that's just outright scam by the sellers who upping the price to $700 for a $300 monitor IMO

 

There are also extra cost in the brand name panels due to the throwaways they have (guess they make some back with these), and the extra circuitry for multiple input and scaling, and menu dev.  Plus they want to make money back for dev cost of panels and enough to dev for the next model.  But yeah, it's time they lower to price to like $300-$400.

[IPCharger]

You can't really expect that much from a cheapo korean monitor.

[GoodBytes]

Here are things that add to cost:

 -> First of off the panel. Here it's cheap because they buy the reject ones. But an IPS panel is not cheap. It's not like TN panel. And even the 300$ 1080P IPS panels form Dell... those are in the range of entry level IPS. They are not true 8-bit panels. they are, like TN panels, 6-bit panels. The price on the side you pointed at, is for sure wrong. It even says 1024x768 as resolution at one spot, ans 25ms response time, which isn't the case. Moreover, on the other link (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/571168115/LM270WQ1_SDC1_Replacement_lcd_screen.html) it's A grade panels, not A+, so either they are refurbished or rejects. So, I don't think the price is correct. Looking at other places, I see 300-500 $ US per panel when you order depending on how many you order, with about standard of 100$ shipping per panel to add.

So for the sakes of argumentation, lets say Dell pays 200$ for it's U2712HM monitor, as they order a lot.

 

 -> Second, the circuitry. You have the panel, but need to make yourself the circuitry. The circuitry that you see in that cheapo monitor is a bare-bone one. Despite the looks, it's essentially DVI directly connected to the panel. All it does is convert the DVI signal which has a full frame image, into a format for the LCD monitor to display it, which is drawing each row from top to bottom of that received frame. Name brand monitors, have a processor for the on screen menu, and it's task to alter the image that it receives to adjust the colors based on your monitor settings. This processor chip is costly. GPU's don't have one. GPU's uses software emulation. That is why when you adjust colors on the Nvidia or AMD or Windows Control Panel, you have heavy banding. Moreover, the circuitry system needs to support DDC/CI protocol as it's standard in high end consumer grade monitors. Fancier monitors have color processors and with Lookup table. And to top things off, you need fast processors, and a very well optimized circuit to minimize input lag. Oh and let's not forget that you can't just put the chips together, you need to program them, to make things possible. So you need a storage chip as well. And you need the circuitry for that as well, and a fast chip. Oh and because you have processors and stuff, you need the infrastructure.. so you essentially need a boot startup process. That is why the monitor doesn't power up instantly, and takes a moment.

So it all adds up.  Oh and a proper multiple inputs support! Ok Well you get the point.

 

-> Plus, you have R&D. I won't be surprised if it cost just as much as the panel.

 

-> Then you have the enclosure. While material doesn't cost a lot, engineering and thinking about the small details like where to pass cables, means that multiple design of the monitor enclosure and stand was made, and it's a whole R&D by itself. And of course, you want solid build quality. It's more than just better and thicker plastic, but also the industrial design of it so that it has proper support everywhere, and is solid for transport and heavy usage. If right now, I decided to lift up and down the monitor continuously 50 times, without being nice to it, I expect it to hold perfectly well. And it does. That's smart design to make it solid quality. Metal parts which high end consumer grade have to keep the monitor solid and wobble free. cost money. It needs to be molded, and molding metal is expensive, and be cut, and sometimes polish to allow other parts to join in properly. The plastic and metal mold (molds aren't cheap, that we all know), needs to be done often to assure that all parts fits well, and looks perfect when you get the product. You can't have an area of your screen that is smooth while the rest is textured, because the mold is finished. Those cheap ebay monitors don't care, and uses generic enclosure which they print their name on.

 

-> Then you have marketing, and let's not forget, warranty coverage, and warranty service (the people you contact for RMA or help for some tech support). Plus you needs to add the extra (USB hub, memory card reader, the cost for having people at the manufacture calibrating the monitor, either to generic settings, or actually doing a full calibration, with report, plus the supervisors, and engineers that made sure the process to do this is quick and efficient, and so on.

 

So you have a lot that adds up to a high price. Now, of course profits are large. High-end products always have high profits. That is what makes companies be pushed to continue to innovate and push boundaries. Look how OEMs treat PCs now. Not a single company cares to innovate, because they porduct very low profits systems. At work, we ordered Lenovo business class desktop PC's, 100 of them. 600$ each. They are small cases (media center like size), with 120GB Samsung SSD in them. Core i5, 8GB of RAM in 2 stick, WITH 5 year warranty. So about 400$ each without the extra warranty. No wonder no one cares, Lenovo is not making profits enough to be encouraged to care.  Already you can see OEMs, at the consumer level they cut on quality and everything to get some level of profit to please their investors. But they are dying themselves, as they made the consumer believe that a powerful 300$ laptop is possible. Now laptops are crap, and desktop are crap.

And when you have Razer, a mouse and keyboard manufacture coming in, and you have Vizio an affordable TV manufacture decide to make PC's... And both are really innovative in their design and how much power they can put inside a form factor that was not seen possible, all by being quiet, it's because you know that something is wrong. Both are not the best price.. but you can say that perhaps it's the right price.  Anyway, that's off topic.

[Winther]

To add to GoodBytes post; About the enclosure, I have worked at a plastic manufacturer and the "R&D" involved in a new product can be pretty steap and aluminium moulds for some products can reach 80k-90k usd for complicated products, from what I know. This isnt too complecated to produce I think so it might "only" be 20kusd for the mould, but thats alot for the avarage guy.. 

[skullbringer]

Looks like I might just buy the cheapo ones on ebay for 300 bucks and mod them to my needs. 

[Samdb]

I really want a 1440p monitor, but I really don't want to take the chance on a cheap one from eBay.

[skullbringer]

I really want a 1440p monitor, but I really don't want to take the chance on a cheap one from eBay.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlVbGcv0g-g&feature=share&list=UUNovoA9w0KnxyDP5bGrOYzg

 

For 300 bucks, why not?

[Samdb]

 

For 300 bucks, why not?

I don't have $300...

[JAKEBAB]

I'm surprised people don't use the crossover versions and put a upgraded board. The build on them is much better, at least all metal back (lots of screws) and easy vesa mounting. I have a crossover 27q and I had to take it apart to fix a loose connection. At the same time, if clear 120hz is not possible due to the panels, that's just outright scam by the sellers who upping the price to $700 for a $300 monitor IMO

There are also extra cost in the brand name panels due to the throwaways they have (guess they make some back with these), and the extra circuitry for multiple input and scaling, and menu dev. Plus they want to make money back for dev cost of panels and enough to dev for the next model. But yeah, it's time they lower to price to like $300-$400.

U know how to upgrade the board? I don't even know what that means or what it would do or how u would do it? But if u can u should show us

[LAwLz]

For 300 bucks, why not?

I would not trust Logan after his absolutely horrible review of the

. Actually, I wouldn't trust Logan on anything, after all the misinformation his videos contain. For display reviews, you should visit sites like TFT Central and Anandtech.

[GoodBytes]

Logan (and Linus) aren't monitor experts. It's not to say that they know nothing, no! They know more than most (many/most don't know the different panel types). But they are not experts. The people at TFTCentral, Prade and Anandtech are experts. Also, it depends ones standards.

[LAwLz]

Logan (and Linus) aren't monitor experts. It's not to say that they know nothing, no! They know more than most (many/most don't know the different panel types). But they are not experts. The people at TFTCentral, Prade and Anandtech are experts. Also, it depends ones standards.

Linus seems to know a bit, but yeah nothing against for example TFTCentral. Logan on the other hand... He doesn't seem to know anything judging by the Qnix video I linked above.

 

Some of the things wrong in the video:

He does not understand what causes input lag. In the video he says that because the monitor only has DVI, it has no input lag (he repeats that it has no input lag at all several times) which is simply false. He does not understand how a monitor works if he think that having a single connector means no input lag.

 

He doesn't do any reason tests in the video even though it's suppose to be a review. Where are the gamut tests? Where are the color balance tests? Where are the black levels tests and where is the brightness test? What about contrast? What about gamma? He just reads what the box says which is something that's OK for an unboxing, but for a proper review that's disgraceful.

 

He says he wants to make a note that it's a backlit panel at 3:15, as if this is not something all monitors are. All LCD monitors are backlit.

 

At 4:48 he says that 2560x1440 makes the pixels so small that you can turn off AA. 2560x1440 on a 27" monitor has a PPI of ~108. Most desktop monitors are about 100 PPI (some are slightly below, some are slightly above) so the PPI is nothing special.

 

These are some of the things wrong with the video. His other reviews are also filled with big mistakes which proves that he just says whatever he think will sound good and make him sound smart. Logan has 0 credibility if you ask me, as far as reviews goes. I like the Tek though.

[Emperor_Piehead]

I do agree with you @lalwz he doesn't have the knowledge or testing methods for things like a monitor or power supply. He likes the Korean monitor, but doesn't have say Asus PB278Q or Dell U2713HM to compare them. I said power supply, because that xigamatek power supply he was like it ran well in Pistol's system for a couple months so it's good. He didn't do anything like testing the rails or hold up time.