NVIDIA have been hit with a class action suit over the GTX 970.

[patrickjp93]

I'd be more inclined to believe you, if every vendor page for the 970 that I've seen since this issue surfaced, didn't still flatout say "4gb" of Vram. It at least warrants an asterisk saying "only 3.5 usable at any given time"

Except that's BS and many reviewers all over have proven so! All 4 GB are usable simultaneously! You will take a performance hit when accessing the very last 0.5GB however.

[patrickjp93]

I'm with you on this one. I'm sick of companies lying to us and this should set an example that WE as consumers have the power, not them. 

Yeah, no... In a market with few competitors, especially a duopoly, suppliers have all the power. Consult any economics professor or book you'd like. Perhaps if Intel was allowed to make dGPUs by licensing some of the most fundamentally required tech for it from AMD/Nvidia (who have so many patents it's nearly impossible for anyone to build around them without infringing), you'd get a third choice, but no, because JSH is a cowardly little bastard who saw Larrabe and decided having a competitor with Intel's kind of archest and process tech was not in Nvidia's interests... And, why the Hell would AMD extend a helping hand when it's looking for ways to monetize its GPU IP and sue Nvidia for infringements (after seeing the Samsung/Nvidia patent squabble) while also simultaneously dealing with the big blue dragon breathing fire down its neck?

[Razzaa]

I'd be more inclined to believe you, if every vendor page for the 970 that I've seen since this issue surfaced, didn't still flatout say "4gb" of Vram. It at least warrants an asterisk saying "only 3.5 usable at any given time"

That isn't true though. All of the Vram is usuable. Lots of people have posted videos of the 970 using over 3.5gb and not having issues. I uploaded 3 in the last two days. I can provide the links if you want. I have videos for 1080p, 1440p and 4k.

[Hulk]

Yeah, no... In a market with few competitors, especially a duopoly, suppliers have all the power. Consult any economics professor or book you'd like. Perhaps if Intel was allowed to make dGPUs by licensing some of the most fundamentally required tech for it from AMD/Nvidia (who have so many patents it's nearly impossible for anyone to build around them without infringing), you'd get a third choice, but no, because JSH is a cowardly little bastard who saw Larrabe and decided having a competitor with Intel's kind of archest and process tech was not in Nvidia's interests... And, why the Hell would AMD extend a helping hand when it's looking for ways to monetize its GPU IP and sue Nvidia for infringements (after seeing the Samsung/Nvidia patent squabble) while also simultaneously dealing with the big blue dragon breathing fire down its neck?

I didn't quite get your point What I said was more as a figure of speech rather than an economic statement. 

[Albatross]

They will be more mindful about specification info now, I bet.

 

Good. I hope they get taken to the cleaners for this, even if I don't get my money back. Companies need to learn that lying about a product is NOT okay.

 

42+

[niofalpha]

It still has 4 GB of Ram... That's the thing.

 

I doubt the Judge will know enough about Computer's to tell the difference...

 

 

 

Real winners here:

Lawyers

[niofalpha]

Half of their 300 series cards were released last year!! 

9/10ths*

[foist]

Other than someone's satisfaction for "sticking it to NVIDIA", aren't the only people REALLY benefiting from most class action lawsuits the lawyers? I don't have a 970 but I can understand how some people could feel cheated.

[Dabombinable]

At the end of it all if Nvidia looses this its the parasites (aka lawyers) win as they make the most out of it.

Other than someone's satisfaction for "sticking it to NVIDIA", aren't the only people REALLY benefiting from most class action lawsuits the lawyers? I don't have a 970 but I can understand how some people could feel cheated.

You ninja-ed me, I was just saying pretty much the same thing.

[Trik'Stari]

Except that's BS and many reviewers all over have proven so! All 4 GB are usable simultaneously! You will take a performance hit when accessing the very last 0.5GB however.

That makes it unusable. I have done it, if you call that usable, you might consider going to console.

 

At the end of it all if Nvidia looses this its the parasites (aka lawyers) win as they make the most out of it.

 You ninja-ed me, I was just saying pretty much the same thing.

 

But at least Nvidia might learn there fucking lesson. Doubtful though unless they actually get taken to the cleaners and have to give a full on refund to everyone that bought the card.

[Dabombinable]

That makes it unusable. I have done it, if you call that usable, you might consider going to console.

 

 

But at least Nvidia might learn there fucking lesson. Doubtful though unless they actually get taken to the cleaners and have to give a full on refund to everyone that bought the card.

Full refund = a whole lot of cooling options for my rig. I've already got my GTX 970 sorted (custom bios-only the first 3.5GB is accessible now, and it appears to work slightly better).

[foist]

You ninja-ed me, I was just saying pretty much the same thing.

 

1st post ninja. :lol:

 

But yeah I am glad the issue got press, got out there, and I certainly hope this doesn't become a practice for them. I just can't imagine a full refund being an outcome.

[Snaeb_aka_Beans]

I am quite happy because 2 970's at 4k even with AA as low as 2x I still cap out 3.5GB of Vram and my performance TANKS on newer games.

[Trik'Stari]

I am quite happy because 2 970's at 4k even with AA as low as 2x I still cap out 3.5GB of Vram and my performance TANKS on newer games.

Thank you. The Nvidia fanboys (And I will admit, I am a former fanboy because of this issue) refuse to accept it, despite what we actual owners say about the actual REAL LIFE performance of the card, over benchmarks. I've hit 3.5 at 1080p at 60hz in a few games, and it becomes unplayable/unenjoyable at that point.

 

Yeah, it blows my old GTX 660's ass out of the water, but for the price, I feel like someone spit in my face. Especially when they offer a middle finger of a refund.

[Unlikelyjoker]

This gonna be good to watch. Nvidia deserves this shit

[Faa]

Not sure if you can call it lies (people in this thread seems to have a weird definition of "lie") but here are a few things:

Not telling the whole truth about their FreeSync Demo.

 

Having "staged release dates" for benchmark results of their products. What this means is that AMD told reviewers that they were only allowed to release benchmark results where their product were good, and then several weeks later they were allowed to post other benchmarks as well. This would make the product look far better than it really was, because all the first batch of benchmarks would look good.

 

The "ACU" measurement someone else posted earlier.

 

The way they measure CPU temperatures is misleading and terrible. If someone tells you that their AMD CPU temp is below ambient then it's not that they are stupid and lying (below ambient temps is physically impossible without something like phase cooling), it's just that AMD's temperature readings are terrible.

"Starting with the Phenoms, AMD's digital sensor no longer reports an absolute temperature value anymore, but a reading with a certain offset, which is unknown. It is estimated that this offset is between 10 - 20c."

It's basically a hardcoded algorithm built in the CPU that "predicts" the temperatures rather than showing the actual raw data, the warmer the CPU becomes the more accurate the readings are (that's what they claim). Still no sensors in each core

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=446&threadid=160921&enterthread=y

Most software monitoring tools just show the socket temp (or in other words CPU temp, not the cores) but it's easily 22° off the real temp and it's still not clear what temp exactly. Package or cores? No ideas. Here's the article though; http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html

There are many more examples of AMD misleading, the true corecount of the 8350, Mantle offering 8-core parallel rendering in Battlefield 4 while processexplorer (shows how much CPU a thread actually uses) tells they're "lying". 

http://cdn4.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Frostbite-3-AMD-Mantle-API.jpg

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5f/900x900px-LL-5f0ec9cf_2mnoz2u.jpeg

Missing 3 threads to do 8-core parallel rendering. Guess why it's 8 and not 12 or 16.. Making such a hype how much better Mantle is than DirectX, but it's only amazing against their own DirectX; http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm/3

Claims like 9x more drawcalls than DirectX, but also against their own DirectX which is like 4 times slower in draw calls than Nvidia's; http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph8962/71451.png

A while ago I made this thread just as an attempt to hope AMD fixing their bad overhead issues, if you read post 113 it has been forwarded to the driver team and we're now almost 3 months further and I've seen nothing. Even their own DX12 performs horrible next to Nvidia DX12. Let's be real, if you can make an API to solve (at least try) CPU overhead issues then I'm pretty sure you are aware of your drivers causing a bunch of overhead and the fact that Nvidia brought a driver out (337.50) advertised as "cpu bottleneck wonder driver" which showed that DirectX had a lot more potential than they thought. The issue is known for almost a year, I'll just be honest they're just keeping it garbage just to show-off how amazing Mantle is. And why would you do this? "Buy our cards we have Mantle!"

AMD is also holding their customers back performance wise, not that it's a huge thing but the last 0.5GB isn't a huge thing either. 

 

 

Nvidia rigs games , that simple.

 

(In case you're wondering it was with DirectX)

Quit this Gameworks BS

It's about false advertising.

Your 970 Strix is advertised to feature a metal shroud but it's plastic (even JJ told me it's metal). So two things that are falsely advertised. Oh you don't care, well it's about false advertising.

[Dabombinable]

 

It's basically a hardcoded algorithm built in the CPU that "predicts" the temperatures rather than showing the actual raw data, the warmer the CPU becomes the more accurate the readings are (that's what they claim). Still no sensors in each core

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=446&threadid=160921&enterthread=y

Most software monitoring tools just show the socket temp (or in other words CPU temp, not the cores) but it's easily 22° off the real temp and it's still not clear what temp exactly. Package or cores? No ideas. Here's the article though; http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html

There are many more examples of AMD misleading, the true corecount of the 8350, Mantle offering 8-core parallel rendering in Battlefield 4 while processexplorer (shows how much CPU a thread actually uses) tells they're "lying". 

http://cdn4.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Frostbite-3-AMD-Mantle-API.jpg

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5f/900x900px-LL-5f0ec9cf_2mnoz2u.jpeg

Missing 3 threads to do 8-core parallel rendering. Guess why it's 8 and not 12 or 16.. Making such a hype how much better Mantle is than DirectX, but it's only amazing against their own DirectX; http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm/3

Claims like 9x more drawcalls than DirectX, but also against their own DirectX which is like 4 times slower in draw calls than Nvidia's; http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph8962/71451.png

A while ago I made this thread just as an attempt to hope AMD fixing their bad overhead issues, if you read post 113 it has been forwarded to the driver team and we're now almost 3 months further and I've seen nothing. Even their own DX12 performs horrible next to Nvidia DX12. Let's be real, if you can make an API to solve (at least try) CPU overhead issues then I'm pretty sure you are aware of your drivers causing a bunch of overhead and the fact that Nvidia brought a driver out (337.50) advertised as "cpu bottleneck wonder driver" which showed that DirectX had a lot more potential than they thought. The issue is known for almost a year, I'll just be honest they're just keeping it garbage just to show-off how amazing Mantle is. And why would you do this? "Buy our cards we have Mantle!"

AMD is also holding their customers back performance wise, not that it's a huge thing but the last 0.5GB isn't a huge thing either. 

 

 

 

(In case you're wondering it was with DirectX)

Quit this Gameworks BS

Your 970 Strix is advertised to feature a metal shroud but it's plastic (even JJ told me it's metal). So two things that are falsely advertised. Oh you don't care, well it's about false advertising.

 

That's a lot to read, I'd better get started.

[Hulk]

Yes, the lawyers do benefit, but thats in the short term. In the long run, its us, the consumers who benefit. So what if a third party gets money- if this means that for the next 3-4 years we don't have to deal with this nonsense from any company by propping Nvidia as an example, I think it's worth it.

 

PS- Is it just me or is everyone here echoing what Linus keeps saying about the only benefactors being the lawyers?

[Guest Kloaked]

Yes, the lawyers do benefit, but thats in the short term. In the long run, its us, the consumers who benefit. So what if a third party gets money- if this means that for the next 3-4 years we don't have to deal with this nonsense from any company by propping Nvidia as an example, I think it's worth it.

PS- Is it just me or is everyone here echoing what Linus keeps saying about the only benefactors being the lawyers?

Stfu Hulk and go smash something

[Hulk]

Stfu Hulk and go smash something

Actually, this Bruce Banner, I've not evolved into the Hulk yet and would prefer to be respectful and engage in a civilized discussion where opinions can thrive without the fear of being shut down. You won't want me getting angry, would you rather have me or the green guy inside? 

[Guest Kloaked]

Actually, this Bruce Banner, I've not evolved into the Hulk yet and would prefer to be respectful and engage in a civilized discussion where opinions can thrive without the fear of being shut down. You won't want me getting angry, would you rather have me or the green guy inside?

Loool

But aren't you angry all of the time?

[meritmaster]

1st post ninja. :lol:

 

But yeah I am glad the issue got press, got out there, and I certainly hope this doesn't become a practice for them. I just can't imagine a full refund being an outcome.

I got a full refund offer from both Gigbyte, and Newegg. Strangely i think they are trying to buy me out of the class action law suit, and stop whatever bleeding possible ATM.

I don't get how anyone can say they didn't mislead the advertisement of their product, as it's so obvious. Even if the law suit is successful, and people receive money as a result, the Nvidia fan boys will still be

in denial, and defensive about the issue, also Europeans will still be complaining about how apparently Americans sue over everything. 

[totjup5]

Good. I hope they get taken to the cleaners for this, even if I don't get my money back. Companies need to learn that lying about a product is NOT okay.

Get over it and stop whining. Class action lawsuits are good for NO ONE except lawyers. Yes, it sucks that they lied about the specs, but even as someone who owns two 970s I do not support this at all.

[d3sl91]

All I know, Is I hope this doesn't make things worse for us consumers, and I hope nothing but the absolute best for Nvidia and Gigabyte.

 

I don't want prices to go crazy, because now one of the two gpu manufacturers are being sued. I would never support this lawsuit if I was a 970 owner (One, because I wouldn't care about slower .5. and two, because I do not like the way it targets ONE distributor (Gigabyte). 

 

Just seems like some lawyers wanting a payday to me. 

[Hulk]

Loool

But aren't you angry all of the time?

 

That's my secret Kloaked, I'm always hungry.