NVIDIA have been hit with a class action suit over the GTX 970.

[patrickjp93]

The proof is that in some nvidia titles a 650 ti boost beats a 270x.

 

Thats good proof enough that some games are extremely NVIDIA biased easily.

 

But you guys like blank statements with nothing to back them off i guess.

No, that's proof AMD's drivers need work for that game. AMD may say it can't see the game works DLLs, but that's BS because they can disassemble and decompile and analyze them! I am not smarter than all of AMD's computer programmers/scientists! Or, if I am, then AMD is doomed anyway!

 

I'm a bachelor of computer science. It's garbage to claim game works gimps anything. If anything, AMD is just using those titles as excuses to stir up their base with conspiracies. Also, the 650TI Boost is a serious overclocker.

[LAwLz]

I am childish yet I am providing proof while you refute my arguments without any proof.

 

Nice scientific method .

 

The burden of proof is on you.

But your proof is not scientific either. Correlation does not imply causation, and you are still only posting 1 single game while ignoring games like Watch_Dogs (from the same developers) which runs bad on all cards.

 

Your argument is "Splinter Cell runs bad on AMD cards. Splinter Cell is one (out of many) GameWork titles. Therefore, it must be Gameworks that causes AMD cards to perform bad in this game!". You have posted 0 evidence to support this theory.

[TheSLSAMG]

Carnegie Melon delivering 800 letters that will actually deliver real depression upon students > GTX 970 nonsense. 

 

One is material goods that have no bearing on your life. The other is pretty brutal for someone. Maybe some people here have never received letters of rejection from a leading university. They suck. It hurts. Putting in all the effort that these higher level institutions require just to apply and then getting rejected? Hurts. 

So imagine being told "Hey, you got in!". And then getting the "Actually, you didn't". I've seen people actually get depressed from the rejection. But that involves people on this forum having some perspective on what actually matters in life. 

And out of all things, it's definitely not a $330 lump of plastic, metal and glass fiber that sits in your PC and gets hot.

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

God, this thread... LTT is fucked. I said it before, I'll say it again.


My 2 cents:

It doesn't fucking matter if Nvidia lied or not. They were at least misleading and/or did not advertise their product correctly. For an international company as big as Nvidia, this is a big fucking deal! As with any large, international company, give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Nvidia absolutely bloody must be held accountable for their actions, no matter what their intentions were, even if they simply fucked up. If they aren't held accountable, they'll continue to "mess up" or "lie" (whatever you want to call it) and it will only get worse.

 

Do you want to see shit like this continue with their future products and possibly on a larger/harsher scale? I sure as hell don't!

 

If Nvidia did indeed lie:

 

Nvidia is an a very large company. Companies as big as Nvidia are constantly trying to increase profits and lower costs. Sometimes they do this by being dishonest, it's nothing new. As consumers, it's up to us to decide whether this sort of thing from Nvidia is acceptable or not and take appropriate action - like speaking with our wallets.


Get your head into gear, LTT.

 

Or pretty much like everyone else. Intel are probably still lying to us. So are Kingston, AMD and the rest of them. I won't trust that companies always tell us the truth because they don't.

 

Not to say that there's an excuse for lying. There isn't, but don't be suprised if they are lying to you.

 

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Did AMD lie about something?

I get the feeling they didn't. As the underdogs, they cannot afford to be caught out lying. It could possibly destroy their company if they were.

[Victorious Secret]

And out of all things, it's definitely not a $330 lump of plastic, metal and glass fiber that sits in your PC and gets hot.

 

I'm sure it does more than that. 

 

It has feelings. 

 

Right? It feels the feels, as the kids say. 

[Guest Kloaked]

Using  ad hominem .

 

Not using proof to back up statements.

 

Very nice debate , I thought rationality was linked to using proof to demonstrate a statement.

 

Thats what modern science is based on , using proof to back up a thesis.

 

Stop backing into a corner with overused arguments.

 

Again, I did not refute anything you've said other than the Gameworks debacle being debunked many times, even by game developers who have actually worked with the fucking code.

 

I said I was going to investigate it myself since the benchmark you showed was an interesting one and didn't make any sense. I wasn't being insulting or off-topic to your argument, yet you're spouting all this bullshit?

 

KK

[TheSLSAMG]

God, this thread... LTT is fucked. I said it before, I'll say it again.

My 2 cents:

It doesn't fucking matter if Nvidia lied or not. They were at least misleading and/or did not advertise their product correctly. For an international company as big as Nvidia, this is a big fucking deal! As with any large, international company, give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Nvidia absolutely bloody must be held accountable for their actions, no matter what their intentions were, even if they simply fucked up. If they aren't held accountable, they'll continue to "mess up" or "lie" (whatever you want to call it) and it will only get worse.

 

Do you want to see shit like this continue with their future products and possibly on a larger/harsher scale? I sure as hell don't!

 

Nvidia is an a very large company. Companies as big as Nvidia are constantly trying to increase profits and lower costs. Sometimes they do this by being dishonest, it's nothing new. As consumers, it's up to us to decide whether this sort of thing from Nvidia is acceptable or not and take appropriate action - like speaking with our wallets.

Get your head into gear, LTT.

 

 

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Did AMD lie about something?

I get the feeling they didn't. As the underdogs, they cannot afford to be caught out lying. It could possibly destroy their company if they were.

They lied back in 2007 about TDP ratings for CPUs by creating their own system called ACU. It's just as much a lie as any, as they never obviously showed that the rating was ACU and not TDP.

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/46921/amd-fudges-power-consumption-figures-by-making-up-power-consumption-rating-system.html

[Pomfinator]

snip

A class action lawsuit is the last thing that people should want.  The only people who win are the lawyers.

[rashdanml]

It annoys me when people say " the 970 still has 4 gb" it's like if I broke one of your legs forcing you to permantly walk with a limp and claiming " you still have 2 legs".

False equivalency. If you really want to use the 2 legs analogy, the 970 would only be able to use 2GB of "fast" memory, while the remaining is crippled. A better equivalency would be a sprained ankle or broken toe. Hurts a bit, but doesn't cripple the person/card. 

 

 

Nvidia is an a very large company. Companies as big as Nvidia are constantly trying to increase profits and lower costs. Sometimes they do this by being dishonest, it's nothing new. As consumers, it's up to us to decide whether this sort of thing from Nvidia is acceptable or not and take appropriate action - like speaking with our wallets.

 

We're not Nvidia's main customers. If every PC gamer were to go up in arms and never buy an Nvidia product in a ludicrous attempt to cripple Nvidia's profits, they'll just laugh at you and carry on supporting the majority of their customers (workstations and supercomputers), which is more than enough for them to keep making money and stay in business. 

[LAwLz]

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Did AMD lie about something?

I get the feeling they didn't. As the underdogs, they cannot afford to be caught out lying. It could possibly destroy their company if they were.

Not sure if you can call it lies (people in this thread seems to have a weird definition of "lie") but here are a few things:

Not telling the whole truth about their FreeSync Demo.

 

Having "staged release dates" for benchmark results of their products. What this means is that AMD told reviewers that they were only allowed to release benchmark results where their product were good, and then several weeks later they were allowed to post other benchmarks as well. This would make the product look far better than it really was, because all the first batch of benchmarks would look good.

 

The "ACU" measurement someone else posted earlier.

 

The way they measure CPU temperatures is misleading and terrible. If someone tells you that their AMD CPU temp is below ambient then it's not that they are stupid and lying (below ambient temps is physically impossible without something like phase cooling), it's just that AMD's temperature readings are terrible.

"Starting with the Phenoms, AMD's digital sensor no longer reports an absolute temperature value anymore, but a reading with a certain offset, which is unknown. It is estimated that this offset is between 10 - 20c."

[Mooshi]

Would people even care if Nvidia marked it as a 3.5GB card instead? Still beats the crap out of my anemic 1GB of vram, though.

 

Whenever AMD releases a new wave of cards, I'm jumping on that.

[Guest Kloaked]

Would people even care if Nvidia marked it as a 3.5GB card instead? Still beats the crap out of my anemic 1GB of vram, though.

 

Whenever AMD releases a new wave of cards, I'm jumping on that.

 

Someone would have found something to bitch about. That's what the internet is good at.

[patrickjp93]

God, this thread... LTT is fucked. I said it before, I'll say it again.

My 2 cents:

It doesn't fucking matter if Nvidia lied or not. They were at least misleading and/or did not advertise their product correctly. For an international company as big as Nvidia, this is a big fucking deal! As with any large, international company, give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Nvidia absolutely bloody must be held accountable for their actions, no matter what their intentions were, even if they simply fucked up. If they aren't held accountable, they'll continue to "mess up" or "lie" (whatever you want to call it) and it will only get worse.

 

Do you want to see shit like this continue with their future products and possibly on a larger/harsher scale? I sure as hell don't!

 

If Nvidia did indeed lie:

 

Nvidia is an a very large company. Companies as big as Nvidia are constantly trying to increase profits and lower costs. Sometimes they do this by being dishonest, it's nothing new. As consumers, it's up to us to decide whether this sort of thing from Nvidia is acceptable or not and take appropriate action - like speaking with our wallets.

Get your head into gear, LTT.

 

 

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Did AMD lie about something?

I get the feeling they didn't. As the underdogs, they cannot afford to be caught out lying. It could possibly destroy their company if they were.

Nvidia wouldn't continue doing that, because their reputation with consumers would rot away to nothing and people would stop buying. Markets self-regulate when it's not an infrastructure deal as with oil.

[Razzaa]

Whenever AMD releases a new wave of cards, I'm jumping on that.

Half of their 300 series cards were released last year!! 

[Victorious Secret]

Half of their 300 series cards were released last year!! 

LOL.

Ouch. Sad, so sad.

[euniqe]

hahahahhahah.

 

The judge is going to take one look at the defence's application and smack the prosecution on their arse and tell them to get the fuck out of his office.

 

Do they really think they stand a chance here, just because they don't understand jack about the architecture?

[Trik'Stari]

It was a clerical error. IT HAPPENS! Carnegie Melon just screwed up and sent 800 students acceptance letters for their master's program in computer science, when it accepts less than 100 a year and had to renege on all 800 of them. IT HAPPENS!

Absolute. Horse. Shit.

 

You really think that the design team, which spent god knows how many hours working on this thing, sent the wrong spec's? Never mind that the customers found out first, and we were only told it was a "clerical error" afterwards.

 

Absolute, complete and utter HORSE SHIT.

 

hahahahhahah.

 

The judge is going to take one look at the defence's application and smack the prosecution on their arse and tell them to get the fuck out of his office.

 

Do they really think they stand a chance here, just because they don't understand jack about the architecture?

 

It's about false advertising.

 

 

Before this incident, I was an Nvidia fanboy, now, I am going to switch to AMD at my next possible opportunity. Nvidia is dead to me until they apologize for lying about the card. No half assed cop-out blaming a clerical error.

 

This seems relevant.

 

-snip

 

Never seen that one before. funny though lol

[alicskysareblue]

it would be except the 970 also has a major problem with boost clock, that can cause performance to tank to about half,  and ALOT of 970 owners have it including me.

[Ostwind]

it would be except the 970 also has a major problem with boost clock, that can cause performance to tank to about half,  and ALOT of 970 owners have it including me.

That's most likely the same issue that @Darkman had which was resolved by switching to a different driver.

[Darkman]

That's most likely the same issue that @Darkman had which was resolved by switching to a different driver.

Yeah... Driver 347.09 doesn't have issues, 347.25 does and it even makes my 650ti flip shit

[patrickjp93]

Absolute. Horse. Shit.

 

You really think that the design team, which spent god knows how many hours working on this thing, sent the wrong spec's? Never mind that the customers found out first, and we were only told it was a "clerical error" afterwards.

 

Absolute, complete and utter HORSE SHIT.

Funny, because apparently the recruiting agents at Carnegie Melon who slave away for months weighing the various attributes and interview notes of each candidate are just as meticulous, and YET IT HAPPENED! Holy Hell! These people work their asses off into the wee hours of the night, and because people at Nvidia trust each other, something is bound to eventually slip through that isn't quite correct!

 

Tech review sites get things wrong too by copying and pasting tables and forgetting to edit one value. It happens to everyone, including Intel, AMD, Nvidia, IBM, Samsung, and even APPLE! Nvidia's reputation is trashed, and I'm sorry but JSH might be a narcissist who wouldn't bat an eye, but if you think the engineers are happy about the misprint you're sorely mistaken.

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

They lied back in 2007 about TDP ratings for CPUs by creating their own system called ACU. It's just as much a lie as any, as they never obviously showed that the rating was ACU and not TDP.

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/46921/amd-fudges-power-consumption-figures-by-making-up-power-consumption-rating-system.html

Not sure if you can call it lies (people in this thread seems to have a weird definition of "lie") but here are a few things:

Not telling the whole truth about their FreeSync Demo.

 

Having "staged release dates" for benchmark results of their products. What this means is that AMD told reviewers that they were only allowed to release benchmark results where their product were good, and then several weeks later they were allowed to post other benchmarks as well. This would make the product look far better than it really was, because all the first batch of benchmarks would look good.

 

The "ACU" measurement someone else posted earlier.

 

The way they measure CPU temperatures is misleading and terrible. If someone tells you that their AMD CPU temp is below ambient then it's not that they are stupid and lying (below ambient temps is physically impossible without something like phase cooling), it's just that AMD's temperature readings are terrible.

"Starting with the Phenoms, AMD's digital sensor no longer reports an absolute temperature value anymore, but a reading with a certain offset, which is unknown. It is estimated that this offset is between 10 - 20c."

 

Fair enough. To be honest, "not telling the whole truth" is more or less lying by omission to me. Seems like a pretty stupid thing to do with their current financial troubles, although I don't know where they stood back in 2007. Hopefully Su will do things differently.

I guess this also says something about brand loyalty, i.e, that it's stupid.

 

A class action lawsuit is the last thing that people should want.  The only people who win are the lawyers.

 

Is it? Class action lawsuits generate a lot of attention and heat, Nvidia won't like that.

 

We're not Nvidia's main customers. If every PC gamer were to go up in arms and never buy an Nvidia product in a ludicrous attempt to cripple Nvidia's profits, they'll just laugh at you and carry on supporting the majority of their customers (workstations and supercomputers), which is more than enough for them to keep making money and stay in business. 

 

Maybe not "main", but significant, I'd say.

[Sky Daddy]

The bottom line is that it's false advertising.

[Trik'Stari]

Funny, because apparently the recruiting agents at Carnegie Melon who slave away for months weighing the various attributes and interview notes of each candidate are just as meticulous, and YET IT HAPPENED! Holy Hell! These people work their asses off into the wee hours of the night, and because people at Nvidia trust each other, something is bound to eventually slip through that isn't quite correct!

 

Tech review sites get things wrong too by copying and pasting tables and forgetting to edit one value. It happens to everyone, including Intel, AMD, Nvidia, IBM, Samsung, and even APPLE! Nvidia's reputation is trashed, and I'm sorry but JSH might be a narcissist who wouldn't bat an eye, but if you think the engineers are happy about the misprint you're sorely mistaken.

I'd be more inclined to believe you, if every vendor page for the 970 that I've seen since this issue surfaced, didn't still flatout say "4gb" of Vram. It at least warrants an asterisk saying "only 3.5 usable at any given time"

[Hulk]

Good. I hope they get taken to the cleaners for this, even if I don't get my money back. Companies need to learn that lying about a product is NOT okay.

I'm with you on this one. I'm sick of companies lying to us and this should set an example that WE as consumers have the power, not them.