Can LTT participate to the "Stop killing games" campaign one more time?

[Luc25QC]

As the title say, it seems there is only one month left for the EU Citizen initiative and as it is going right now, there is a lot of missing signatures.

To me it seems to be the best chance we still have of correcting the gaming industry for game ownership / preservation.

 

Here is the video reference:

 

Also, here is the official site:

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

 

I think it would be awesome if LTT could make a dedicated video on this or at the very least, discuss it one more time on the WAN show.

 

Thanks

 

[Ezzy-525]

"Oh I'll definitely sign this!", I said.

 

[AndrewAsd]

12 minutes ago, Ezzy-525 said:

"Oh I'll definitely sign this!", I said.

Sign this one. 
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/702074/

[dogwitch]

already been talk about and spam to the point on reddit and here where mods keep cleaning up.

it failed for a varity of reason and now ross is trying to blame some rando to save face.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

It wouldn't hurt. If anything, we must at least keep swimming till the end even if we drown on the shore.

However, as Ross explained, what would help the most is to get some exposure on yet unaware audiences, rather than preaching more to the converted (or to the unconvertible). A main channel video may reach a different segment than the previous LTT coverage, but there would still be a substantial overlap.

But yes, if they're able and willing to, why not.

[Doobeedoo]

Nothing can save games if they're killed by devs themselves.

[KidKid]

22 hours ago, Luc25QC said:

As the title say, it seems there is only one month left for the EU Citizen initiative and as it is going right now, there is a lot of missing signatures.

To me it seems to be the best chance we still have of correcting the gaming industry for game ownership / preservation.

 

Here is the video reference:

 

Also, here is the official site:

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

 

I think it would be awesome if LTT could make a dedicated video on this or at the very least, discuss it one more time on the WAN show.

 

Thanks

 

Please do it again @LMGcommunity

[Luc25QC]

18 hours ago, dogwitch said:

already been talk about and spam to the point on reddit and here where mods keep cleaning up.

it failed for a varity of reason and now ross is trying to blame some rando to save face.

You have absolutly not idea what you're talking about

[dogwitch]

3 hours ago, Luc25QC said:

You have absolutly not idea what you're talking about

first half is ross fans have been using bot army to  post this all across reddit multi times per sub.

second part is ross shows he blaming pirate dude... that show he himself failed  to do any leader ship. it classic blame some one else for there own mistakes.

 

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, dogwitch said:

first half is ross fans have been using bot army to  post this all across reddit multi times per sub.

second part is ross shows he blaming pirate dude... that show he himself failed  to do any leader ship. it classic blame some one else for there own mistakes.

 

Piratesoftware https://develop.games/ is not a nobody, but it's definitely barking up the wrong tree when you want support for what is effectively anti-developer petition.

 

My view on this subject has always been that if a SaaS shutsdown, the software should either patch out the online functionality so the product continues to work or open source the online component and let the people still using/playing it deal with the support.

 

Square Enix has shut down a lot of stuff, and a lot of asian gacha games have shutdown. These games never needed an online componet to work, they were designed as mobile games. But instead of letting people keep playing the game, they shut down the online componet that ties all the microtransactions to the game. Hence, if they were to "patch out" the online component, the game would be super-hard and all the content you had to buy in a limited time period would be lost media.

 

[dogwitch]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Piratesoftware https://develop.games/ is not a nobody, but it's definitely barking up the wrong tree when you want support for what is effectively anti-developer petition.

 

My view on this subject has always been that if a SaaS shutsdown, the software should either patch out the online functionality so the product continues to work or open source the online component and let the people still using/playing it deal with the support.

 

Square Enix has shut down a lot of stuff, and a lot of asian gacha games have shutdown. These games never needed an online componet to work, they were designed as mobile games. But instead of letting people keep playing the game, they shut down the online componet that ties all the microtransactions to the game. Hence, if they were to "patch out" the online component, the game would be super-hard and all the content you had to buy in a limited time period would be lost media.

 

putting words i never said into my mouth. classic skg answer to everything. 

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, dogwitch said:

putting words i never said into my mouth. classic skg answer to everything. 

?

PirateSoftware - He streams 12 hours a day 6 days a week, and literately broke the hypetrain record last year. 

 

I don't necessarily agree with Thor, but I think trying to frame him as some dumb know-nothing, when he probably has far more experience on that exact topic than Ross does from working at Blizzard and from working for the government. That's the problem. Literately some people asked him about stop killing games, likely hoping to get some support for it, and it instead blew up in the face of whoever asked it.

 

Games should be preserved, but the inability to play LiveService games, especially when companies kill them after months when they don't start minting a fortune with shallow gameplay are rapidly becoming lost media. Never mind old games that nobody actually played.

 

 

 

[dogwitch]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

?

PirateSoftware - He streams 12 hours a day 6 days a week, and literately broke the hypetrain record last year. 

 

I don't necessarily agree with Thor, but I think trying to frame him as some dumb know-nothing, when he probably has far more experience on that exact topic than Ross does from working at Blizzard and from working for the government. That's the problem. Literately some people asked him about stop killing games, likely hoping to get some support for it, and it instead blew up in the face of whoever asked it.

 

Games should be preserved, but the inability to play LiveService games, especially when companies kill them after months when they don't start minting a fortune with shallow gameplay are rapidly becoming lost media. Never mind old games that nobody actually played.

 

 

 

but it's definitely barking up the wrong tree when you want support for what is effectively anti-developer petition.  you frame  this to me. . 

also again stop make him a boogy man. he did nothng to sway anyone. 

[Kisai]

 

2 hours ago, dogwitch said:

but it's definitely barking up the wrong tree when you want support for what is effectively anti-developer petition.  you frame  this to me. . 

also again stop make him a boogy man. he did nothng to sway anyone. 

I'm not? Do you not understand the thread? All I pointed out is you said "some rando" and then I pointed out piratesoftware (thor) is literately in the top 100 on twitch.

That's like saying "One Piece" is "some random cartoon".

 

My issue here is that you think the 'rando' some shmuck.

Yes "Some rando" with 2.5m subscribers who happens to make games and has worked on live service games.

 

vs

"Some rando" with 344k subscribers who is... a guy who makes machinima (videos using HL2)

These guys are not going to see eye to eye because it is in their personal and financial interests not to. That does not change the narrative that game developers shouldn't make games into lost media on purpose. Heck if publishers weren't constantly packaging slot machines as live service "surprise mechanics" they would be regulated like slot machines and that incentive to destroy games would be gone entirely.

 

 

 

[strajk-]

Calling PirateSoftware someone with experience is an insult to developers already.

Dude worked as a QA grunt at Blizzard, no development is involved in that, hired since his dad worked at Blizzard.

 

He has displayed multiple times his ignorance in programming, did a kickstarter for an Undertale clone that is effectively abandoned, in development for almost 8 years, and for that game his way of implementing localization for multi-langual support, was a hard coded Array of over 17'000 lines of codes, yes I'm not joking, this dude hard coded multi-language into an array instead of making it dynamic, essentially if he wants to fix a spelling mistake, he has to recompile his whole game for all platforms this vaporware was supposed to support, not even a junior developer would do this pathetic attempt of multi-langual support:

 

He is a narcissist, and a gold standard when it comes to referencing the Dunning Kruger Effect.

 

That's enough bashing from my side, wanted it out of my system, as @Kisai said, he had a major impact in the determent of this movement, he optimized his SEO and during those 11 months if you searched for the initiative you would always find his video first, brimmed with misinformation.

 

Ross did try to get the word out, had meetings with development studios and even CD Projekt Red, there even was supposed to be a stall at a gaming event from a major developer dedicated to this initiative, which was canceled (I think because the organized got sick or something, don't remember exactly what the reason was).

 

This second wind was because bigger content creators suddenly started talking about this again, Ross had no input in this, he simply made a video talking about the video from 11 months, countering the fallacies about it, despite the fact that he had already done a video countering those, several actually, which he mentioned in his newest video.

 

As it stands the initiative will definitely fail, the second wind is nice and all but that isn't sustainable, the only way it could keep the traction is if bigger content creators started pumping out more videos about it, bringing awareness to the 1 month deadline, such as LTT, PewDiePie and others.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, strajk- said:

 

That's enough bashing from my side, wanted it out of my system, as @Kisai said, he had a major impact in the determent of this movement, he optimized his SEO and during those 11 months if you searched for the initiative you would always find his video first, brimmed with misinformation.

 

Ross did try to get the word out, had meetings with development studios and even CD Projekt Red, there even was supposed to be a stall at a gaming event from a major developer dedicated to this initiative, which was canceled (I think because the organized got sick or something, don't remember exactly what the reason was).

 

This second wind was because bigger content creators suddenly started talking about this again, Ross had no input in this, he simply made a video talking about the video from 11 months, countering the fallacies about it, despite the fact that he had already done a video countering those, several actually, which he mentioned in his newest video.

 

The thing is, and will always be, there was no real plan by SKG. Like the LTT reddit thread had some better posts on the topic that were less maligning piratesoftware like Charlie (Cr1TiKaL) and more bringing up the point about there was no real direction here.

 

Like I don't think anyone thought about the consequences of that.

 

Let's look at what is required to keep a single player game alive versus a multiplayer game:

 

A single player game has no requirement to be online except to deal with microtransaction BS. You can easily hack that stuff out of the game, as that is what pirates in fact do when they pirate feemium games. Mobile phone games have to be able to operate in an offline mode because internet data caps are a thing.

 

Multiplayer games, even if the game is otherwise operable single player (eg Genshin Impact) still require that online service for the multiplayer component to function. This is a long-tail consequence of the wide adoption of NAT instead of IPv6, so all these "online services" at their core are doing matchmaking lobbies because the "server" in this aspect is simply doing the NAT traversal handshakes, and more to the point protecting the privacy of the users that would otherwise get hacked for lulz.

 

MMO games, especially MMORPG's can not be operated without their servers, but they CAN be patched to allow the end user to specify the server. That thus opens up the possibility of a private server being developed for the game without any involvement of the company who developed the game. It would be nice if they documented the protocol, but many game fans have figured out how to develop a private server for games that still operate because they felt the game operator was in danger of shutting it down (you can in fact play FFXIV 1.0 in some fashion if you know how. Locally.) But these are not "one man and a vision" things, these are like people who have captured data while the game was operational, decrypted the packets and figured out how to make the game operate without decompiling the game and thus running into copyright issues.

 

The reality is that if a game is popular enough, it won't be shut down, there will be financial or preservation efforts to keep it online. Such is the case with Ultima Online and NexusTK, MMO's from the 90's. But where is Everquest you might ask? Yep even that is still running by a new operator. So in some respects, if a game is notable enough, there will be an effort to save it by having the IP and software transferred to another company. But that is definitely not going to be the case for games that were intended as cash pinata's that the audience didn't even show up for.

 

This is why I've kinda not been wanting to sign up for new MMORPG's at all, because the developers seem to see them as cash pinata's and then shut them down when they don't mint a fortune on day 1. It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Develop a good game that people want to support, not the other way around of developing a game that is super expensive to support and can't operate without being unplayable levels of microtransactions.

 

All the "sponsorship" offers I keep seeing from stream elements and lurkit are always these cash pinata type of gacha games, and I'm just not down for that. As someone else mentioned, if you are big enough, you can quite literately go to these companies yourself and get yourself a better sponsorship deal than anyone reaching out to you for will. 

 

In some ways I feel that the incentive to develop a good game has been lost, and if you're not making an indie game of something you actually want to exist, then being a cog in a wheel of a large game developer is just going to feel demoralizing.

 

The best SKG could have hoped for is game developers to publish an EOL policy with their plans for what to do if they decide to discontinue service, so you can make a choice in advance not to buy into the game in the first place. See Multiversus a game that was discontinued after 1 year after being in beta for two. The game didn't make oodles of money, so they are shutting it down. Why would you spend money on a game you know is going to be dead in a year.

 

 

[dogwitch]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

The thing is, and will always be, there was no real plan by SKG. Like the LTT reddit thread had some better posts on the topic that were less maligning piratesoftware like Charlie (Cr1TiKaL) and more bringing up the point about there was no real direction here.

 

Like I don't think anyone thought about the consequences of that.

 

Let's look at what is required to keep a single player game alive versus a multiplayer game:

 

A single player game has no requirement to be online except to deal with microtransaction BS. You can easily hack that stuff out of the game, as that is what pirates in fact do when they pirate feemium games. Mobile phone games have to be able to operate in an offline mode because internet data caps are a thing.

 

Multiplayer games, even if the game is otherwise operable single player (eg Genshin Impact) still require that online service for the multiplayer component to function. This is a long-tail consequence of the wide adoption of NAT instead of IPv6, so all these "online services" at their core are doing matchmaking lobbies because the "server" in this aspect is simply doing the NAT traversal handshakes, and more to the point protecting the privacy of the users that would otherwise get hacked for lulz.

 

MMO games, especially MMORPG's can not be operated without their servers, but they CAN be patched to allow the end user to specify the server. That thus opens up the possibility of a private server being developed for the game without any involvement of the company who developed the game. It would be nice if they documented the protocol, but many game fans have figured out how to develop a private server for games that still operate because they felt the game operator was in danger of shutting it down (you can in fact play FFXIV 1.0 in some fashion if you know how. Locally.) But these are not "one man and a vision" things, these are like people who have captured data while the game was operational, decrypted the packets and figured out how to make the game operate without decompiling the game and thus running into copyright issues.

 

The reality is that if a game is popular enough, it won't be shut down, there will be financial or preservation efforts to keep it online. Such is the case with Ultima Online and NexusTK, MMO's from the 90's. But where is Everquest you might ask? Yep even that is still running by a new operator. So in some respects, if a game is notable enough, there will be an effort to save it by having the IP and software transferred to another company. But that is definitely not going to be the case for games that were intended as cash pinata's that the audience didn't even show up for.

 

This is why I've kinda not been wanting to sign up for new MMORPG's at all, because the developers seem to see them as cash pinata's and then shut them down when they don't mint a fortune on day 1. It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Develop a good game that people want to support, not the other way around of developing a game that is super expensive to support and can't operate without being unplayable levels of microtransactions.

 

All the "sponsorship" offers I keep seeing from stream elements and lurkit are always these cash pinata type of gacha games, and I'm just not down for that. As someone else mentioned, if you are big enough, you can quite literately go to these companies yourself and get yourself a better sponsorship deal than anyone reaching out to you for will. 

 

In some ways I feel that the incentive to develop a good game has been lost, and if you're not making an indie game of something you actually want to exist, then being a cog in a wheel of a large game developer is just going to feel demoralizing.

 

The best SKG could have hoped for is game developers to publish an EOL policy with their plans for what to do if they decide to discontinue service, so you can make a choice in advance not to buy into the game in the first place. See Multiversus a game that was discontinued after 1 year after being in beta for two. The game didn't make oodles of money, so they are shutting it down. Why would you spend money on a game you know is going to be dead in a year.

 

 

The thing is, and will always be, there was no real plan by SKG.

that why i left and drop any support.

it also does not help with how trying to debate it on reddit.

you will get threaten and harassment. 

[conquering turtle]

I'm hoping that LTT will do something for this as I feel that they could really do something to move the needle on this, and I'm really hoping that we will get something from this.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 6/23/2025 at 1:44 PM, Luc25QC said:

As the title say, it seems there is only one month left for the EU Citizen initiative and as it is going right now, there is a lot of missing signatures.

 

Between that video and now, this happened:

 

This is insane. Come on, Europe, one last push!
(and please, please let them be valid, last thing we need is to find out 300,000 of those are 'muricans or something...)