DRAM less QLC SSD as system drive.

[georgeyjoy]

Hi, I'm looking to purchase a Surface Pro 16 GB 256 GB config and right away upgrade the storage to 2 TB. I am from India, so the prices I compare are from here. Please use the prices below to make an assessment.

 

The options I have are

 

WD Black SN770M 2tb - 33577 Indian rupees (392.18 USD)

Crucial P310 2tb - 16959 Indian rupees (198 USD)

Prices are inclusive of all taxes.

 

Both are NVME 2230 type DRAM-less drives. The significant difference is that the WD one has TLC NAND, and Crucial uses QLC NAND.

I will briefly explain my use case. I am a mechanical engineer who uses CAD software, mainly AutoCAD 2D, in my system. Occasionally, I might use 3d software, but don't consider it for this analyst as in the past 10 years I have only used 3d software for 2 projects on my (personal) device. I am a photographer, and the most frequently used applications on my device would be Lightroom and Photoshop. Photography is not my profession so the application would not be used daily, but more than 5 to 10 times a month. I need the capacity so badly that any suggestion to go for a lower capacity won't be a good one in my assessment.
My plan includes building a desktop and a NAS system may be within the next 2 years, then the storage requirements and usage pattern would change significantly as this device would only be serving me when I am mobile.

 

My major concern would be regarding using a QLC NAND SSD as a system drive. My usage pattern does not need high-speed writing beyond what a QLC NAND could handle, I think, but what about Windows? Does the operating system wear out a QLC NAND? Or should I pay twice the price and go for the TLC NAND?

I plan to use my device for a long time beyond its normal life. I currently use a 9-year-old laptop with a midlife upgrade to storage and RAM. So expect me to use the device for the next 10 years (hopefully the battery will last).

[Electronics Wizardy]

I have setup a good amount of system with drives like these without issues. Yea they slowdown when you push IO hard, but thats pretty rare for just a boot drive and you don't seem to be working with big files.

[georgeyjoy]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

I have setup a good amount of system with drives like these without issues. Yea they slowdown when you push IO hard, but thats pretty rare for just a boot drive and you don't seem to be working with big files.

Yes, I don't often work with large files, so my usage is still not my concern. What about the operating system? 
When I compared the drives, the endurance and mean time between failures are the only differences I consider to be explored further. That's why I made this thread.
 

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 minutes ago, georgeyjoy said:

What about the operating system? 

Just fine. I have work with manage systems on pretty slow SSDs without a issue.

 

Don't worry about endurance for light use like this.

 

Failure is pretty unlikely, but make backups on anydrive.

[Timme]

Is SN850x not an option? A system drive is performing constant random writes/reads and juggling caches. Having a DRAM cache takes up a good portion of that, making things faster and noticeably reducing the wear on the NAND itself. All in all, snappier performance and an extra couple of years of durability.

QLC drives are more suitable for general storage. The NAND type is less reliable, slower, and wears out quicker. Not something you want for a system drive. SN770 wins.

[georgeyjoy]

1 minute ago, Timme said:

Is SN850x not an option? A system drive is performing constant random writes/reads and juggling caches. Having a DRAM cache takes up a good portion of that, making things faster and noticeably reducing the wear on the NAND itself. All in all, snappier performance and an extra couple of years of durability.

QLC drives are more suitable for general storage. The NAND type is less reliable, slower, and wears out quicker. Not something you want for a system drive. SN770 wins.

I only found SN850x in 2280 type, I need 2230 NVME SSD.

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 hours ago, Timme said:

Is SN850x not an option? A system drive is performing constant random writes/reads and juggling caches. Having a DRAM cache takes up a good portion of that, making things faster and noticeably reducing the wear on the NAND itself. All in all, snappier performance and an extra couple of years of durability.

 

Typically the DRAM on SSDs is used for the FTL, not for caching IO(please give me a source if you have one saying otherwise though). It can help with random IO as it doesn't have to go to the NAND for that data, but from my use, a low end SSD is fine for basic windows use.

[Timme]

13 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Typically the DRAM on SSDs is used for the FTL, not for caching IO(please give me a source if you have one saying otherwise though). It can help with random IO as it doesn't have to go to the NAND for that data, but from my use, a low end SSD is fine for basic windows use.

Here you go

[Kartik Chopra]

@georgeyjoy

My thoughts on this bhai:

 

1. Getting 2230 ssd in India itself is a challenge - try offline markets like Nehru place etc. Typically they have more choices than Amazon.
2. SSDs (all the more for 2TB versions) are pretty reliable these days. Windows and the softwares you mentioned do not subject the SSD to heavy IO, so I'll recommend getting whatever 2TB 2230 ssd is cheap (look at offline prices also)
3. [Unrelated question] Why are you buying a surface for Autocad and Photoshop? If buying used you can go for a workstation laptop with dedicated graphics and it'll perform miles better than the surface pro laptop - especially if you ever use 3D software like solidworks or CATIA. Plus this will give you the regular 2280 ssd slots and will be cheaper than the surface.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Sort by cheapest ssd and buy

 

You wont see any noticable performance diff with the higher end drives if you arent the type to work with large files often ie regular desktop use or gaming

[georgeyjoy]

48 minutes ago, Kartik Chopra said:

@georgeyjoy

My thoughts on this bhai:

 

1. Getting 2230 ssd in India itself is a challenge - try offline markets like Nehru place etc. Typically they have more choices than Amazon.
2. SSDs (all the more for 2TB versions) are pretty reliable these days. Windows and the softwares you mentioned do not subject the SSD to heavy IO, so I'll recommend getting whatever 2TB 2230 ssd is cheap (look at offline prices also)
3. [Unrelated question] Why are you buying a surface for Autocad and Photoshop? If buying used you can go for a workstation laptop with dedicated graphics and it'll perform miles better than the surface pro laptop - especially if you ever use 3D software like solidworks or CATIA. Plus this will give you the regular 2280 ssd slots and will be cheaper than the surface.

Part of a larger plan was using a laptop for now, going forward, I am planning to build a desktop. Then I would need a mobile device too. Ideally, building a desktop first would be the better option. But being mobile is also important, so considering my situation, I plan to buy a tablet, and finally a desktop (with huge capacity) or a combination of a Desktop and NAS.
Too complicated, I know. Don't hesitate to share if you have a better plan.

[Kartik Chopra]

Still for the situation I'll recommend a workstation laptop.

 

If buying used - look for something cheap with a 4gb nvidia graphics card

If buying new - again something cheap like zbook firefly with rtx a500

 

I use cheap comparatively to workstation desktops.

 

This doesn't need to be super powerful but you'll not regret having a dGPU for 2D, 3D and photoshop.

 

Later on you can build the desktop all while your laptop still isn't irrelevant.

I personally am not understanding why you're going for a surface (meant like a macbook for business purposes and to look pretty, not perform the best)

[Kartik Chopra]

For India I know something like a dell precision, thinkpad P series or HP Zbook used will be available for ~60K with an i7 10th to 12th gen and 4gb nVidia graphics.