nVidia strikes against the media again - what will be the final drop in the cup??? (Deja-Vu i've just been in this place before)

[QuantumSingularity]

Many of you have probably already seen the video from Steve and the deja-vu situation we have from 4 years ago. God knows i agree with everything Steve says and i knew it will come to this eventually, but what i am most interested in is where does LMG stand on this issue. The last time when this happened Linus went into berserk mode they let off the throttle a little bit. Imo, no matter the differences and the past disagreements LMG had with GN, this is the time for all the tech media to unite, stand together as one and show nVidia that they can't simply push their narrative down the people's throats in their endless chase for ever increasing profits. I really think Linus and LMG should come out with a dedicated video, addressing this and not only mention it in a WAN show. 

 

What are your thoughts on this one guys?

[strange13930]

3 minutes ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Many of you have probably already seen the video from Steve and the deja-vu situation we have from 4 years ago. God knows i agree with everything Steve says and i knew it will come to this eventually, but what i am most interested in is where does LMG stand on this issue. The last time when this happened Linus went into berserk mode they let off the throttle a little bit. Imo, no matter the differences and the past disagreements LMG had with GN, this is the time for all the tech media to unite, stand together as one and show nVidia that they can't simply push their narrative down the people's throats in their endless chase for ever increasing profits. I really think Linus and LMG should come out with a dedicated video, addressing this and not only mention it in a WAN show. 

 

What are your thoguhts on this one?

I agree

[tkitch]

my thoughts?

The tech media has approximately 0 leverage on NVidia to cause any useful change.  

 

NVidia doesn't give a fuck about Youtube Tech Space, and would happily ignore it if it was too annoying to work with.  

[QuantumSingularity]

1 minute ago, tkitch said:

my thoughts?

The tech media has approximately 0 leverage on NVidia to cause any useful change.  

 

NVidia doesn't give a fuck about Youtube Tech Space, and would happily ignore it if it was too annoying to work with.  

Not according to their actions. If they didn't care about YT or other tech media at all, they wouldn't be try to push their narrative so violently. They desperately try to convince the gaming market that their way is the only way. 10 years ago there was another company that had that same type of market control and ef-ed it up so bad, that today nobody buys their CPUs.

[tkitch]

6 minutes ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Not according to their actions. If they didn't care about YT or other tech media at all, they wouldn't be try to push their narrative so violently. They desperately try to convince the gaming market that their way is the only way. 10 years ago there was another company that had that same type of market control and ef-ed it up so bad, that today nobody buys their CPUs.

and you're failing at the correlation, or in this case, complete lack thereof.

NVidia uses the media as a tool, as long as it's easy enough for them to control the narrative.

If it gets too difficult?  They may just stop dealing with the media entirely.


Why?

Simple:  Nobody can compete with NVidia.

 

And unlike in your intel CPU comparison?  There is nobody building GPUs that are even pretending to threaten NVidia's dominance anywhere.

AMD Built Ryzen which was directly a threat to Intel.  

AMD isn't a threat to NVidia.  Intel isn't a threat to NVidia.

Nobody is.

 

And unless that changes?  NVidia has 0 actual reason to play softball with the media.  

 

And before you say it:  The 9070 / XT is not a threat to NVidia anywhere.  If it was actually near 600?  It might be, but at the current 800+ everywhere?  It's really not.  

[PDifolco]

9 minutes ago, tkitch said:

and you're failing at the correlation, or in this case, complete lack thereof.

NVidia uses the media as a tool, as long as it's easy enough for them to control the narrative.

If it gets too difficult?  They may just stop dealing with the media entirely.


Why?

Simple:  Nobody can compete with NVidia.

 

And unlike in your intel CPU comparison?  There is nobody building GPUs that are even pretending to threaten NVidia's dominance anywhere.

AMD Built Ryzen which was directly a threat to Intel.  

AMD isn't a threat to NVidia.  Intel isn't a threat to NVidia.

Nobody is.

 

And unless that changes?  NVidia has 0 actual reason to play softball with the media.  

 

And before you say it:  The 9070 / XT is not a threat to NVidia anywhere.  If it was actually near 600?  It might be, but at the current 800+ everywhere?  It's really not.  

Maybe NVidia sees the tech media as annoying bugs, but they still don't want to have all of them as enemies, and only a strong response may curb their a$$hole behavior

Companies that are so full of themselves that they despise media and even their consumers never ended well anyway

9070/XT inflated prices aren't AMD fault, the sellers just "adjust" it to whatever is close to NVidia scalping price and still sell; technically AMD can compete on the mid tier, and Intel on the low end, soon mid tier as well

 

[tkitch]

28 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Maybe NVidia sees the tech media as annoying bugs, but they still don't want to have all of them as enemies, and only a strong response may curb their a$$hole behavior

Companies that are so full of themselves that they despise media and even their consumers never ended well anyway

9070/XT inflated prices aren't AMD fault, the sellers just "adjust" it to whatever is close to NVidia scalping price and still sell; technically AMD can compete on the mid tier, and Intel on the low end, soon mid tier as well

 

Nope, on basically all accounts.

As far as GPUs themselves?  The income from gaming is a footnote in their budget.  If NVidia stopped making consumer GPUs entirely?  Their quarterly reports would basically not notice.  

Consumers are useful to nvidia as a "test platform" to try weird shit out.  Because consumers don't matter.  NVidia releases stable code to their business partners, and we're paying for the priviledge of being beta testers frequently.

 

And the 9070 / XT was never 550-600 bucks.  That price included a rebate to let stores hit it.  That was actually a loss leader.  

 

At best it was a 750$ GPU, like the pre-launch rumors indicated AMD was going to try to hit.

 

NVidia has no serious competition.  And unless that changes, NVidia will get away with murder.  

[Arianity]

Not sure if this would be better suited under the sponsor discussion subheading. But it seems Nvidia is back to doing it's manipulative actions against press outlets, again. At first, it was just the timing of the 5060 launch lining up with Computex (and without drivers). But we're now finding out that certain outlets are getting "preview drivers". So even if we wanted to give Nvidia the benefit of the doubt about drivers not being ready, that excuse is out the window.

 

Gamers Nexus is coming forward with accusations about being pressured to include more MFG content or lose access to Nvidia engineers (this one is admittedly a bit awkward, given GN's specific history with LTT). But with other outlets like Hardware Unboxed and Jayz2cents speaking up as well, it seems worth taking seriously. And it's inline with Nvidia's past behavior.

I know it puts LMG in an awkward spot, but personally I would appreciate it if they would consider drawing a hard line and scaling back collabs/sponsorships while this sort of stuff is ongoing. (And yes, realistically the mainstream audience is probably not going to give them 'credit' for doing so. But I think it's the right thing to do if these allegations are true, and it's worth redrawing the line on the sand when it comes to pressuring independent media). They will still have to cover/review the products, of course.

[Blue4130]

5 hours ago, tkitch said:

As far as GPUs themselves?  The income from gaming is a footnote in their budget.  If NVidia stopped making consumer GPUs entirely?  Their quarterly reports would basically not notice. 

Agreed. Saw this yesterday. Even a year ago we gamers may have mattered. But this year....

 

 

[bigdirtyjase]

This will come up in WAN Show this week for sure. 

 

Linus (and other content creators) stood up for Hardware Unboxed when they had their issues with Nvidia a couple of years ago and I would say he will stand with GN (despite whatever is going on) because this is purely unacceptable.

 

[DeerDK]

I'm not in doubt about Linus' and LTT's position on this. It's well stated already. 

Whether or not they will comment on it. I expect it will get some attention but given how toxic their relationship has been in the last couple of years, I can also see why approaching it can be a bit tricky. It's only been a day and everybody is traveling, so give it time, though. 

[Absentia13]

Smaller channels can make 20-30 min videos commenting but LTT, a huge channel, has to wait until travel is over? Doesn't pass the smell test. Linus takes sponsorship from companies whose products they review. Hence why it's hard to take them seriously. HUB doesn't take sponsorships from Intel, AMD, or Nvidia and this is why. I would ALWAYS defer to more independence when an opinion is introduced.

[starsmine]

2 minutes ago, Absentia13 said:

Smaller channels can make 20-30 min videos commenting but LTT, a huge channel, has to wait until travel is over? Doesn't pass the smell test. Linus takes sponsorship from companies whose products they review. Hence why it's hard to take them seriously. HUB doesn't take sponsorships from Intel, AMD, or Nvidia and this is why. I would ALWAYS defer to more independence when an opinion is introduced.

Smaller channels can shoot on the hip with reckless abandon. 

LTT would rather not do a knee jerk production piece, especially with anything regarding other creators. 

It 1000% passes the smell test. 

[QuantumSingularity]

Some might say i am wrong, but for me LTT being the largest tech media has a duty to stand up to this disgusting behavior from the manufacturers. As Steve said in the video, it's ok if nVidia doesn't want to make gaming GPUs anymore and switches only to datacenter and AI. It's perfectly fine. What isn't fine is that  they are singlehandedly fucking up the entire gaming market. Stop manufacturing gaming GPUs at all then and just keep the data centers. We will survive with just AMD and Intel on the market. 

[Absentia13]

19 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Smaller channels can shoot on the hip with reckless abandon. 

LTT would rather not do a knee jerk production piece, especially with anything regarding other creators. 

It 1000% passes the smell test. 

Yea, I totally disagree with that. They should be able to do it faster, better, easier. If not, maybe there is something going wrong.

[tkitch]

1 hour ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Some might say i am wrong, but for me LTT being the largest tech media has a duty to stand up to this disgusting behavior from the manufacturers. As Steve said in the video, it's ok if nVidia doesn't want to make gaming GPUs anymore and switches only to datacenter and AI. It's perfectly fine. What isn't fine is that  they are singlehandedly fucking up the entire gaming market. Stop manufacturing gaming GPUs at all then and just keep the data centers. We will survive with just AMD and Intel on the market. 

Linus has made a stand on it, more than once.

And he's also fully aware:  NVidia will ignore the fuck outta him.  

Were you around for GPP?  No?  That was another huge scandal and, in the end?  There was nothing anyone could do to NVidia about it.  It wasn't illegal, it was just shitty.   Guess what's gonna happen with this drama bomb.... 

[QuantumSingularity]

1 hour ago, tkitch said:

Linus has made a stand on it, more than once.

And he's also fully aware:  NVidia will ignore the fuck outta him.  

Were you around for GPP?  No?  That was another huge scandal and, in the end?  There was nothing anyone could do to NVidia about it.  It wasn't illegal, it was just shitty.   Guess what's gonna happen with this drama bomb.... 

I don't think you realize how badly PR can affect a company, even if it's the size of nVidia. They know it as well, that's why they try to extinguish every little fire they start. You didn't like my copmarison with the CPU market, but you clearly forgot how MUCH MORE dominant Intel were before 2017. Especially on the datacenter market. AMD were basically non-existent. Even on the lower end intel were dominating. This is what made the success of Ryzen so unexpected and sudden. AMD back then had even less competitive product than what is the 9070XT today. And yet, even with much better public opinion, intel crumbled, not only on the desktop and laptop side, but on the datacenter as well. 

If you still don't think public opinion can have such a huge effect, ask yoursels the question "Why nVidia so badly wants to push the narrative towards DLSS and FG???". If they really didn't give a single flying f**k about what the media and the gaming market think, they wouldn't be pressuring everyone to talk about they snake skin oil. 

[tkitch]

29 minutes ago, QuantumSingularity said:

I don't think you realize how badly PR can affect a company, even if it's the size of nVidia. They know it as well, that's why they try to extinguish every little fire they start. You didn't like my copmarison with the CPU market, but you clearly forgot how MUCH MORE dominant Intel were before 2017. Especially on the datacenter market. AMD were basically non-existent. Even on the lower end intel were dominating. This is what made the success of Ryzen so unexpected and sudden. AMD back then had even less competitive product than what is the 9070XT today. And yet, even with much better public opinion, intel crumbled, not only on the desktop and laptop side, but on the datacenter as well. 

If you still don't think public opinion can have such a huge effect, ask yoursels the question "Why nVidia so badly wants to push the narrative towards DLSS and FG???". If they really didn't give a single flying f**k about what the media and the gaming market think, they wouldn't be pressuring everyone to talk about they snake skin oil. 

 

Nope, not anymore.

 

See this, which was posted earlier:

 

4 years ago?  Gaming actually mattered to their bottom line.

 

Now, Datacenter is a better profit percentage, and also like 90% of their overall income.

 

It also gets NVidia RRUs, which are very important to big business.

 

NVidia is going to do whatever shady shit they want, and will mostly succeed in the consumer space.   

 

Why are they putting in any effort still?  Well, profit is profit, and they're going to put in at least a little effort to keep making money in it, but their level of "give a fuck" is going to be very very very low.  

[starsmine]

2 hours ago, tkitch said:

Linus has made a stand on it, more than once.

And he's also fully aware:  NVidia will ignore the fuck outta him.  

Were you around for GPP?  No?  That was another huge scandal and, in the end?  There was nothing anyone could do to NVidia about it.  It wasn't illegal, it was just shitty.   Guess what's gonna happen with this drama bomb.... 

GPP did get squashed after the media backlash btw. 

Thats why "nothing" happened, it ended before it really could get going. 

[ewitte]

12 minutes ago, tkitch said:

 

Nope, not anymore.

 

See this, which was posted earlier:

 

 

Each bar is one quarter.  Gaming was 50% like 1-1.5 years ago.  Thats a bubble just waiting to pop.  Eventually datacenters are going to slow down on AI.  Models will come out that need less resources, etc.

[tkitch]

1 minute ago, starsmine said:

GPP did get squashed after the media backlash btw. 

Thats why "nothing" happened, it ended before it really could get going. 

yup, that was also when gaming was the majority of NVidia's income, so they actually did have to give a fuck.

Now it's not, and they really don't.  

They're also not worried about pissing off AIBs, because NVidia selling their own cards makes NVidia more money than selling chip kits to AIBs.    

[tkitch]

Just now, ewitte said:

Each bar is one quarter.  Gaming was 50% like 1 year ago.  Thats a bubble just waiting to pop.  Eventually datacenters are going to slow down on AI.  Models will come out that need less resources, etc.

tell that bubble popping joke to the housing market.  

[starsmine]

4 minutes ago, ewitte said:

Each bar is one quarter.  Gaming was 50% like 1-1.5 years ago.  Thats a bubble just waiting to pop.  Eventually datacenters are going to slow down on AI.  Models will come out that need less resources, etc.

notice what you said. 
slow down, not stop buying, but slow down. 

There will not be any world where less compute is demanded, and now that more server software is coded to utalize that comptue, its not going to go anywhere. 

Worst case, line goes "flat" thats not popping. thats the DC pie growing as fast as nvidia looses market share to stuff like Gaudi/CDNA. 

There is NO world where DC demand... Less compute. 

[wasab]

Nvidia is the only one selling cards that can do AIs. Someone or something really need to break up this monopoly. 

[DJ_Jay125]

4 hours ago, starsmine said:

Smaller channels can shoot on the hip with reckless abandon. 

LTT would rather not do a knee jerk production piece, especially with anything regarding other creators. 

It 1000% passes the smell test. 

smaller channels also don't have people breathing down their neck trying to find the smallest "issue" to discredit a youtubers entire existance

We've seen what happens when Linus or LTT make knee jerk reactions and its rarely ever ended well especially because if the response isn't perfect we know Steve is going to have a shit fit too