The turd show that is OTA TV in the US

[Donut417]

 

So.......... The FCC just close the first round of comments on the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) request to sunset ATSC 1.0. Most of the broadcasters simply skipped over the whole DRM issue, as many of the public comments had to do with that. I even sent a comment. Sinclair however steered right in to the issue, had they been the Titanic they would have steered straight for that iceberg.

 

Lon makes some great points. Even some things I didn't know. For example the HDHomerun is certified to work with DRM, but it doesnt work. Like no Network TV tuners work. It's almost like the broadcasters dont want people recording TV or sharing it outside the home. Funny enough I didnt know that the broadcasters sued Sony back in the day over the VCR's ability to record TV. Old habits die hard I guess. Ive seen estimates of a couple of hundred dollars cost difference between a ATSC 1.0 TV and a ATSC 3.0 TV. With how "Unpredictable" the economy has become (One day the market is up and next its down), I dont think many people are going to want to have to A) buy a new TV or B) Pay more money for a TV. Not to mention the lower cost external 3.0 tuners have started going up in price probably due to tariffs. Regardless the NAB feels they will succeed in their endeavors. Im not 100% sure on that. Because you know who else has to upgrade equipment? Cable companies........ They are not on board. Decade+ of people cutting cable, smaller margins, exploding costs due to companies like Sinclair. WOW cut cable TV all together like over a year ago. Ive heard many smaller cable providers are doing the same, it's not worth it any more. Comcast has spun off much the TV channels they owned in to a separate company, with the exception of Peacock. AT&T has also done the same with HBO for example. The writing is on the wall. The members of the NAB are interested in ATSC 3.0's ability to data cast. Not sure how that will make them money but maybe it will. They also want permission to encrypt all but one of the channels (For example many of sub sub channels (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc)), charge for the rest, or create a new revenue stream. 

 

To make matters even more interesting, there is a competing standard called 5G TV. The funny thing about this standard is well it can be built in to your phone. So it makes TV portable. It some cases maybe more accessible. Could be beneficial during national disasters and such. At least one broadcaster has asked the FCC to allow them to test this standard. Though unlike ATSC 3.0, there are no tuner available and its hard to say if there will ever be. 

 

Maybe it's time to sunset broadcast TV as a whole and sell the spectrum to the cellular companies, or make it available to the public in some way like they do with CB, or HAM radio. Or maybe roll it in to WiFI. 

 

What are your thoughts? 

[OhioYJ]

The more difficult, and more expensive you make things for people, the more people will look for alternatives. I can guarantee they will be alternatives that corporations / broadcasters won't like.

[Donut417]

Just now, OhioYJ said:

The more difficult, and more expensive you make things for people, the more people will look for alternatives. I can guarantee they will be alternatives that corporations / broadcasters won't like.

Piracy is defiantly a thing they should be worried about. However I think it major cable companies just dumped TV all together that would hurt even more. With cable providers dont not board, likely due to the fact many are upgrading their networks to Mid Split and Docsis 4, they might just kill TV, it also would free up more bandwidth. I know big cable ISP's like Comcast (Xfinity) and Charter (Spectrum) have been pushing in to mobile the last few years hard. Not to mention Charter and Comcast have partnered up to design the XUMO streaming platform. Comcast also owns Peacock. 

[freeagent]

I love the quality of OTA.. better than my cable providers provide for a fee lol..

 

But we only have like 5 channels here in my city. 2 are French and one is for Jesus.

 

Bleh..

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, freeagent said:

I love the quality of OTA.. better than my cable providers provide for a fee lol..

 

But we only have like 5 channels here in my city. 2 are French and one is for Jesus.

 

Bleh..

I get 50 I think. Though we have

more but not all the channel guide data is in Plex, so the channels without guide data I can view in Plex. 

[Issac Zachary]

The short version of the rest of this comment: our community is facing either higher taxes, or taking money from other taxes, or cutting OTA TV altogether.

 

The local association that takes taxes for providing TV and FM radio repeaters and a few other recreation things (tennis courts, for an example) is in the process of deciding what to do with the service it provides.

• It is still on the ATSC 1.0 standard, and even it is in desperate need of attention:
• Apparently, some towers are on the brink of collapsing,
• And other towers are on leased property where the leasers do not want to continue the lease after it soon ends.
• And in this rural valley, there's the question of how many people even watch OTA TV anyway.
• The company that currently provides the satellite link to the repeaters is stopping its service in a year or sooner, which by itself is very costly.

But on the other hand, we only have a single data pipeline coming into the valley serving about 20,000 people. The nearest places from here are over 60miles or 100km away, over steep mountain passes. When that has failed the whole valley has been without power, internet, phone and cellphone service. Only those with satellite and backup power have been able to keep in touch with the outside when that happens. One time it was out for 3 days for the whole valley with some areas taking up to a week for it to come back on after a major snowstorm.

 

The thing is that they also provide FM radio repeater service. So I guess the only way to be prepared for an emergency here is to have a satellite service. No radio, no TV, no internet, no phone... we'd be up a creek without a paddle. But personally, I'm so cheap, or should I say: so strapped, that I can't get myself even to change phones to a satellite capable phone, let alone pay for satellite internet.

[Caroline]

Excluding old people watching the daily "news" slop, is anyone watching TV? like, at all? and not just in the US.

 

We never had TV at home, so there's that bias. I have one in my room but I only use the video in capability to watch series or movies, pirated, ngl on that one, it works for me, there are no streaming services in my country and if you somehow get a VPN and a way to pay from another country most still cost pretty much an average monthly income, so there's only the seven seas for someone like me, not that I watch a LOT of content, last thing I watched was a 1960s movie, not too interested in the mainstream new content as I don't find it interesting.

 

The receiver works and I catch 6 OTA channels, but they're all about politics, the economy or the president's speeches and boy this guy loves to talk, prime time is basically his speech, because he likes to talk after 10PM because of some obscure parareligious tradition, he's all into esoterica, conspiracies, ghosts, even nazis on the moon, he wants to "build a big rocket ship like Elon Musk" to "go look for nazis on the moon" I'm not even kidding.

With THAT kind of content on screen all I use it for is piracy.exe

 

Digital signals use the ISDB standard, it can do data, but it doesn't work, my STB has networking capabilities and a browser, it's pretty ancient nowadays but I remember we were promised "free internet for everyone" that would be broadcast by the same transmission towers but it never happened, we got the kit for free in 2009 and it's been unused ever since, until I got the TV last year. There's also an ethernet port and it can read certain files from a basic FTP server, but it's better to use the USB port.

[ewitte]

23 hours ago, OhioYJ said:

The more difficult, and more expensive you make things for people, the more people will look for alternatives. I can guarantee they will be alternatives that corporations / broadcasters won't like.

Everything they do have been pushing people towards "alternatives".

[Donut417]

51 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Excluding old people watching the daily "news" slop, is anyone watching TV? like, at all? and not just in the US.

I watch one show on OTA TV, thats NCIS. If Im board I might turn on MeTV Toons or watch normal METV as they do MASH and other good old shows. But at the end of the day it's due to our Data cap with Comcast that we use OTA TV, if we didnt have the cap we likely wouldn't watch OTA TV. 

 

51 minutes ago, Caroline said:

The receiver works and I catch 6 OTA channels,

I like to say I get at least 50 channels OTA. Many are home shopping, religious, etc. Many just show reruns of old shows. 

 

[Donut417]

7 minutes ago, ewitte said:

Everything they do have been pushing people towards "alternatives".

Except the broadcasters dont really benefit from people using the other legal options. Because they are hitting a breaking point on what they can charge cable companies as more and more drop cable and satellite TV. I think thats why they want to encrypt all but one channel, as the FCC requires them to look out for the "public interest", which is why they have access to the air waves in the first place. They want to push news and bullshit on the free channel, then charge for the rest. They honestly think people are going to pay. 

 

 

[Issac Zachary]

On 5/14/2025 at 4:09 PM, Donut417 said:

The turd show that is OTA TV in the US

 

1 hour ago, Caroline said:

but they're all about politics, the economy or the president's speeches and boy this guy loves to talk, prime time is basically his speech, because he likes to talk after 10PM because of some obscure parareligious tradition, he's all into esoterica, conspiracies, ghosts, even nazis on the moon, he wants to "build a big rocket ship like Elon Musk" to "go look for nazis on the moon" I'm not even kidding.

With THAT kind of content on screen all I use it for is piracy.exe

I think this is one of the biggest reasons, that most good content has disappeared. If you're hear on LLT then you've most likely watched a few of their shows. But on what OTA channel does Linus broadcast Linus Tech Tips??? Not one.

 

But it's a dying reason. If fewer people watch over-the-air TV, then there are fewer reasons to get more good content on over-the-air TV. But if there is less good content, then there will be fewer people who want to watch it, and again you have fewer reasons to get better content on the air and more of it.

 

Times have changed, yes. But even though I honestly don't watch hardly any OTA TV, there still is a part of me that wishes I could get better shows and more of them in higher quality (at least 720p) on OTA TV instead of being faced with it being axed from my region.

[ewitte]

50 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

 

 

I like to say I get at least 50 channels OTA. Many are home shopping, religious, etc. Many just show reruns of old shows. 

 

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, ewitte said:

You get an ATSC 3.0 broadcasts? 

 

6 minutes ago, Issac Zachary said:

think this is one of the biggest reasons, that most good content has disappeared.

Ehhh. Yes and no. If you dont mind reruns there is some good content. Most of the major networks still release shows on their OTA feeds. 

 

7 minutes ago, Issac Zachary said:

If fewer people watch over-the-air TV, then there are fewer reasons to get more good content on over-the-air TV.

One thing you have to consider, Cable / Satellite TV users also count as OTA TV watchers. Because both those services offer TV services, and offer OTA feeds. In fact thats how the local broadcasters make most of their coin. Though both of those services are also hemorrhaging customers. 

 

9 minutes ago, Issac Zachary said:

I could get better shows and more of them in higher quality (at least 720p) on OTA TV instead of being faced with it being axed from my region.

720p is basically the top end of most content. I get one 1080i channel. This is actually the big "Selling" point to ATSC 3.0, as it "could" support 4K, but they cant do shit as long as ATSC 1.0 is running. But with DRM and the price of tuners making the TV's more expensive, there has been little reason for most to upgrade to an ATSC 3.0 compatible device. The fact the best TV maker in the world LG basically dropped out of offering ATSC 3.0 tuners, it makes it an even harder sell. 

[Issac Zachary]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

720p is basically the top end of most content.

One reason I don't hardly watch any OTA TV here is because all 20 or so channels here are all broadcast (via repeaters) at 480i. Most of the time you can't read any of the text because it was obviously made for a higher resolution.

 

4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

This is actually the big "Selling" point to ATSC 3.0, as it "could" support 4K, but they cant do shit as long as ATSC 1.0 is running.

ATSC 1.0 can also do 4k, but can stream fewer channels at that resolution. Add to the fact that the TV spectrum keeps being whittled away as it's sold off to cellular companies.

 

ATSC 3.0 makes sense in many ways from a technological standpoint. But unless the government steps in and gives out free conversion boxes to the masses that actually can show all channels, including DRM encrypted ones, as well as help communities like mine that don't have the funds to install ATSC 3.0 broadcast repeaters, I do think that we are seeing the end of OTA TV on the near horizon.

[ewitte]

8 hours ago, Donut417 said:

You get an ATSC 3.0 broadcasts? 

I get them I can't use them because Plex can't do the DRM.  The ATSC 3.0 tuners also do ATSC 1.0 which gives me 6 usable vs 4 on the ATSC 1.0 only tuner.  Most of the reason I'm picking up so many channels is I had a decent antenna mounted on the roof 15ish years ago.

[ewitte]

8 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

ATSC 1.0 can also do 4k, but can stream fewer channels at that resolution. Add to the fact that the TV spectrum keeps being whittled away as it's sold off to cellular companies.

TBH I wish it were at least 1080p most broadcasts are 720p.

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, ewitte said:

I get them I can't use them because Plex can't do the DRM. 

Thats exactly why many of the comments were about DRM. The HD Homerun is like the most popular OTA tuner out on the market. It's really fucked up that it's certified for ATSC 3.0, even with its DRM, but they could never get it working. It's almost like the members of the NAB dont want people recording TV. I mean these are the same people who sued Sony for the VCR's recording capabilities. They are hoping by not providing support for these devices and using the DMCA (which forbids breaking encryption) that they can stop those from recording and watching outside of their home. As watching outside the home was another issue that they brought up. 

 

 

2 hours ago, ewitte said:

TBH I wish it were at least 1080p most broadcasts are 720p.

Honestly I never understood why they didnt at least upgrade to 1080p, I mean like @Issac Zacharybrought up many broadcasts are in 480p. They could have a least upgrade all broadcasts to 720p and majors to 1080p. I wonder if there is some kind of technical reason OR if it was just a money thing. 

[Issac Zachary]

On 5/16/2025 at 4:22 AM, Donut417 said:

Honestly I never understood why they didnt at least upgrade to 1080p, I mean like @Issac Zacharybrought up many broadcasts are in 480p. They could have a least upgrade all broadcasts to 720p and majors to 1080p. I wonder if there is some kind of technical reason OR if it was just a money thing. 

Well, at least according to the local entity that maintains the repeaters for re-broadcasting OTA channels in my area, yes they are very expensive to upgrade. Something in the millions of dollars for a tower that can broadcast some than 20 channels.

[ewitte]

On 5/16/2025 at 5:22 AM, Donut417 said:

Thats exactly why many of the comments were about DRM. The HD Homerun is like the most popular OTA tuner out on the market. It's really fucked up that it's certified for ATSC 3.0, even with its DRM, but they could never get it working. It's almost like the members of the NAB dont want people recording TV. I mean these are the same people who sued Sony for the VCR's recording capabilities. They are hoping by not providing support for these devices and using the DMCA (which forbids breaking encryption) that they can stop those from recording and watching outside of their home. As watching outside the home was another issue that they brought up. 

It has also killed ATSC 3.0 adoption.  They only way it is going to take off like this is if it is forced and it isn't really going to stop anything...  Technically plex works for ATSC 3.0 IF there is no DRM.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, ewitte said:

It has also killed ATSC 3.0 adoption.  They only way it is going to take off like this is if it is forced and it isn't really going to stop anything...  Technically plex works for ATSC 3.0 IF there is no DRM.

But there is DRM. One of the channels in my market is encrypted. That’s how I expect all channels to go. Even if a tuner is certified to work with encryption, doesn’t mean it will. As stated in the video I posted, the HD homerun the most popular tuner is certified and can’t play encrypted channels. 

 

Also there is DRM on recording content, the DVR has to ask for permission for you to view recordings from a server controlled by the broadcasters I assume. I shouldn’t need permission to view content that’s on my own hardware. 
 

[ewitte]

17 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

But there is DRM. One of the channels in my market is encrypted. That’s how I expect all channels to go. Even if a tuner is certified to work with encryption, doesn’t mean it will. As stated in the video I posted, the HD homerun the most popular tuner is certified and can’t play encrypted channels. 

 

Also there is DRM on recording content, the DVR has to ask for permission for you to view recordings from a server controlled by the broadcasters I assume. I shouldn’t need permission to view content that’s on my own hardware. 
 

HDHomerun can work with DRM but the entire platform has to support it, and no computer software exists that works...

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, ewitte said:

HDHomerun can work with DRM but the entire platform has to support it, and no computer software exists that works...

I disagree. It's an encryption problem. Because unencrypted channels work fine from what I have read. With how long the ATSC 3.0 version of the HDhomerun has been out, they would have released software. BTW Silicon Dust has its own App for the HDhomerun, you dont need to use Plex to access it. The fact they haven't means to me that the broadcasters are not playing ball. Big fucking surprise there. 

 

In my opinion if they want to encrypt the channels they should have to shell out billions like the cellular providers have done. Other wise they should be required to leave all channels unencrypted. 

[ewitte]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I disagree. It's an encryption problem. Because unencrypted channels work fine from what I have read. With how long the ATSC 3.0 version of the HDhomerun has been out, they would have released software. BTW Silicon Dust has its own App for the HDhomerun, you dont need to use Plex to access it. The fact they haven't means to me that the broadcasters are not playing ball. Big fucking surprise there. 

 

In my opinion if they want to encrypt the channels they should have to shell out billions like the cellular providers have done. Other wise they should be required to leave all channels unencrypted.

Ok.  The biggest problem is the entire platform has to support it.  Why it doesn't work doesn't really matter just that it doesn't.  Plex has had financial problems they are pretty slow at releasing anything new.  HDhomerun's app is fairly limited in general.

[Donut417]

Just now, ewitte said:

HDhomerun's app is fairly limited in general.

But if should allow you to tune in to the channels. If they are encrypted you CANT. There are NO network TV tuners that work with ATSC 3.0. However there are many external tuner boxes that do work. An entire class of tuners has pretty much been give 0 support. Thats the whole fucking point. Because god forbid you watch free TV outside your home. God forbid you record your shows and watch them later. 

 

Another fact. The broadcasters were given the ability to use the spectrum as long as was with in the benefit of the public. They are failing at doing that with this new standard. So why do you give them a free pass? You own stock in Sinclair? You're ok with having to shell out $200+ more on a TV to ensure it has the right tuner? 

[Issac Zachary]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Because god forbid you watch free TV outside your home.

Or have to travel 4 hours in order to watch TV once the nix the repeaters in my area.

 

Since the stations here are repeated broadcasts from Denver, I would imagine I could get a friend to setup a network connected box and let me have access to it.

 

But then there's that DRM you're talking about. Oh, the joys of modern-day technology. There are reasons I watch less TV, fewer movies and listen to less music and radio than I used to.