Have some questions about using mfg, cap at 60, base fps and vram

[RayE80]

Hi. 
 

Just bought the new 5070 and feel a bit lost in the jungle of settings
Coming from amd make this new to me. 

 

Ac shadows: i put it to high/ultra settings and get like 130fps in 4k quality 4x framegen, if i turn the fg off i get only 17 fps! Still i have dlss on quality but fg turned off, thought the upscaler worked without fg? 
on my earlier amd 7700xt i used fsr quality fg off and got like 50 fps in 3200x1800. So a bit strange i get 17 fps with dlss quality fg off?
 

Earlier i have heard people saying that base fps should be 30 if turning on upscaling to get 60? 
 

Vram usage in game settings is 8500mb, but windows task manager say i use 11200mb? So system use 3300mb outside the game it seems, is that normal?

 

In nvidia app i can only select 3x and 4x fg but not 2x frame gen? Would like to try with less fg since i lock it to 60 fps, i have a 4k 120hz tv but i dont feel much difference on 60 vs 120 so i was thinking the card work easier with running 60fps, but unsure if its ok to lock the fps to only 60 with use of dlss multi frame gen.
 

Thanks for reading, cheers   

[Salted Spinach]

In order of importance:

1. The result framerate does not exceed the display refresh rate. You can cap framerate to achieve this. The cap is on the base framerate, not the result framerate.
2. You want the base framerate to not be lower than 50. Ideally at least 60. Base framerate = result framerate divided by the FG multiplier
3. Using upscaling increases the base framerate

 

[RayE80]

20 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

In order of importance:

1. The result framerate does not exceed the display refresh rate. You can cap framerate to achieve this. The cap is on the base framerate, not the result framerate.
2. You want the base framerate to not be lower than 50. Ideally at least 60. Base framerate = result framerate divided by the FG multiplier
3. Using upscaling increases the base framerate

 

I see and trying to learn it, so if i take 130fps divided on 4 since it was 4mfg it is then 30 real fps?

 

I tried settings more and if i use the 3d application settings on, in the nvidia app on all 3 dlss settings I suddently got it to work fine with fg off, now it went from 17fps to 60 fps dlss quality but fg off.

 

With this settings in nvidia app putted to latest and not the 3d application i only get 17 fps again with dlss quality fg off. 

 

Seems like this settings force the basic dlss upscaler to not work at all if fg is off?

 

Little confused since what upscaler is that im using now to get 60 fps with fg off? Dlss 4 or dlss3? 

[Salted Spinach]

14 minutes ago, RayE80 said:

I see and trying to learn it, so if i take 130fps divided on 4 since it was 4mfg it is then 30 real fps?

130 divided by 4 = 32.5

Close enough, you have the correct idea

 

15 minutes ago, RayE80 said:

With this settings in nvidia app putted to latest and not the 3d application...

I do not understand what you are saying here

 

16 minutes ago, RayE80 said:

Seems like this settings force the basic dlss upscaler to not work at all if fg is off?

I don't think DLSS upscaling can turn 17fps into 60fps. I do not know what you mean by "this settings"

 

21 minutes ago, RayE80 said:

Little confused since what upscaler is that im using now to get 60 fps with fg off? Dlss 4 or dlss3? 

The game is either using DLSS4 or DLSS3. You cannot switch between them from within the game.

[Mark Kaine]

btw it's a bad time to "learn" Nvidia app... unless you're on driver 566.36 and have only NVCP installed, it's probably the buggiest and most badly made  software ever, making adrenaline actually look good lol.

 

In all seriousness deinstall the app (use DDU) and more importantly leave the Nvidia settings at default (again, unless you're running 566.36 or earlier)

 

 

1 hour ago, Salted Spinach said:

The result framerate does not exceed the display refresh rate. You can cap framerate to achieve this. The cap is on the base framerate, not the result framerate.

Isn't that contradicting? If result doesn't exceed, how come it's running at like 80 when I "locked" it to 60? (nvmd it even tells me that it might exceed the framerate I set). 

It's an awful mechanism that serves no purpose other than to waste energy lol...

Yes I can lock the framerate with Riva Tuner, with the byproduct of my game becoming a stuttery mess, I guess Riva Tuner can't actually deal with fake frames ...

 

 

32 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

I don't think DLSS upscaling can turn 17fps into 60fps.

agreed, that's what fg does... especially on 5xxx cards.

[Salted Spinach]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Isn't that contradicting? If result doesn't exceed, how come it's running at like 80 when I "locked" it to 60? (nvmd it even tells me that it might exceed the framerate I set). 

It's an awful mechanism that serves no purpose other than to waste energy lol...

Yes I can lock the framerate with Riva Tuner, with the byproduct of my game becoming a stuttery mess, I guess Riva Tuner can't actually deal with fake frames ...

Capping the framerate is to ensure gsync is not broken

 

I referred to setting the cap within the game, which usually caps the base framerate.

 

RTSS also only reads and caps the base framerate, but no one was talking about this earlier. I did not assume OP was using RTSS at all. Anyone with experience of messing around with framerate cap through 3rd party software should already know it sucks compared to setting within the game

[RayE80]

7 hours ago, Salted Spinach said:

130 divided by 4 = 32.5

Close enough, you have the correct idea

 

I do not understand what you are saying here

 

I don't think DLSS upscaling can turn 17fps into 60fps. I do not know what you mean by "this settings"

 

The game is either using DLSS4 or DLSS3. You cannot switch between them from within the game.

What i ment about the settings:

nvidia app under graphics for the spesific game it’s 3 different dlss settings: dlss override model preset, dlss override frame generation and dlss override super resolution, i had this settings put to latest, then i dont know what they mean but it was then i only got 17fps with dlss quality fg off, putted dlss override frame gen to use 3d application settings, now it seems like i can use dlss quality without frame gen and get decent 60 plus fps.

 

a bit confused about the different settings and with amd i felt it was fell a bit short but this app is even worse for a pc noob like me. So how can i onlu get 17 fps with dlss quality and when turned settings ubder graphics settings in nvidia app from selection latest to this 3d application it seems to fix it so i dont need to use frame gen but what excactly happens with this settings is hard to tell for me. The card have more power then run ac shadows in 17fps so it must be a bug maby?

[RayE80]

7 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

btw it's a bad time to "learn" Nvidia app... unless you're on driver 566.36 and have only NVCP installed, it's probably the buggiest and most badly made  software ever, making adrenaline actually look good lol.

 

In all seriousness deinstall the app (use DDU) and more importantly leave the Nvidia settings at default (again, unless you're running 566.36 or earlier)

 

 

Isn't that contradicting? If result doesn't exceed, how come it's running at like 80 when I "locked" it to 60? (nvmd it even tells me that it might exceed the framerate I set). 

It's an awful mechanism that serves no purpose other than to waste energy lol...

Yes I can lock the framerate with Riva Tuner, with the byproduct of my game becoming a stuttery mess, I guess Riva Tuner can't actually deal with fake frames ...

 

 

agreed, that's what fg does... especially on 5xxx cards.

Make adrenaline looks good lol agree, i dont understand as i just explained about my settings and 17 fps in ac shadows, with dlss override settings on latest or 3d application made it go from 17 fps to 60 fps switching from latest to 3d application, but if i use latest and fg4 it do deliver like 120fps, but i feel the image and gameplay is best with only dlss quality with fg off, so what excactly is this setting then? Dlss is upscaler but not fram gen? It seems to me it is some issues with the nvidia app, i have the latest drivers.

Hate when i dont understand but i got out of it with 60 fps dlss quality and high settings, non frame gen. This is the best experience i have so far with this game.

 

Another thing i want to ask about is vram usage, the in game menu show 8500mb but the task manager say 10000mb, sometimes it say 11400 if i use framegen but game still calculate 8500mb vram used, do the system really use 3gb outside the game? 
 

Can i just max the vram to 11900mb without issues or do i need to make sure to leave 1 gb free or something?

[Mark Kaine]

46 minutes ago, RayE80 said:

Make adrenaline looks good lol agree, i dont understand as i just explained about my settings and 17 fps in ac shadows, with dlss override settings on latest or 3d application made it go from 17 fps to 60 fps switching from latest to 3d application, but if i use latest and fg4 it do deliver like 120fps, but i feel the image and gameplay is best with only dlss quality with fg off, so what excactly is this setting then? Dlss is upscaler but not fram gen? It seems to me it is some issues with the nvidia app, i have the latest drivers.

Hate when i dont understand but i got out of it with 60 fps dlss quality and high settings, non frame gen. This is the best experience i have so far with this game.

 

Another thing i want to ask about is vram usage, the in game menu show 8500mb but the task manager say 10000mb, sometimes it say 11400 if i use framegen but game still calculate 8500mb vram used, do the system really use 3gb outside the game? 
 

Can i just max the vram to 11900mb without issues or do i need to make sure to leave 1 gb free or something?

Tbh idk exactly what these settings do but it sounds like you turned on a fg override, I really doubt DLSS alone can get you those gains, I mean maybe, but as said that's normally what fg is for (in lieu of proper game optimization)

 

As for Vram, depends on the game but usually games are pretty good at max/min Vram usage... I play Monster Hunter with a 3070 and it basically never goes above 8gb* (estimate is like 5gb, but usually it sits right at 7.9gb lol...)

 

*just note it did go over 8 sometimes, and nothing happened as far I remember, I thought that was pretty funny...

 

Some games may outright crash tho or have other issues, you just have to try, and yeah the estimated is just that, an estimate. 

[RayE80]

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Tbh idk exactly what these settings do but it sounds like you turned on a fg override, I really doubt DLSS alone can get you those gains, I mean maybe, but as said that's normally what fg is for (in lieu of proper game optimization)

 

As for Vram, depends on the game but usually games are pretty good at max/min Vram usage... I play Monster Hunter with a 3070 and it basically never goes above 8gb* (estimate is like 5gb, but usually it sits right at 7.9gb lol...)

 

*just note it did go over 8 sometimes, and nothing happened as far I remember, I thought that was pretty funny...

 

Some games may outright crash tho or have other issues, you just have to try, and yeah the estimated is just that, an estimate. 

Good to know thanks, so then i can max the vram usage if neccessary and just make it right under 12gb, it seems like ac shadows use 1gb more with fg, i get plenty of fps with this card and to keep 60 FPS is easy for many more years with mfg, only vram can set limits for this card, as long as i can play 4k dlss quality and tweak some settings it should last a few years

Impressed that i can use it as a 4k card lol