Is LMG's PTM7950 even worth keeping in stock now that Thermal Grizzly has them too?

[CasualExtremist]

LMG's PTM7950:

https://www.lttstore.com/products/ptm7950-phase-change-thermal-pad?variant=41233930584167

 

Thermal Grizzly's  PTM7950:

https://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/phasesheet-ptm/s-tg-ps

https://www.newegg.com/p/2MB-0048-000K9#:~:text=Payment Options,2024-10-14 (cheaper after calc of shipping)

 

At this point it feels like the novelty has fallen off and now there is direct competitors like TG with a solid brand reputation behind them and similar pricing. Especially once you consider LMG's shipping costs thanks to Canada screwery, what footing does LMG hold in the phase change pad market anymore?

[CasualExtremist]

It is probably worth mentioning that I know TG has had the phase change pads for a little bit, just never seen it discussed. Also felt like discussing since LMG's phase change pads are usually out of stock as of recent times.

[PDifolco]

TG is a small German company (it's headed by DerBauer), getting it from LTT may be more practical in the US

[saintlouisbagels]

It's not really a novelty. LMG carries it at a good price.

 

LTT Store = 60mm x 60mm = 3,600mm² = $14.99 or $4.16 per m²

LTT Store = 200mm x 160mm = 32,000 mm² = $69.99 or $2.19 per m²

Thermal Grizzly = 50mm x 40mm = 2,000mm² = $10.40 or $5.20 per m²

[CasualExtremist]

58 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

TG is a small German company (it's headed by DerBauer), getting it from LTT may be more practical in the US

 

55 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

It's not really a novelty. LMG carries it at a good price.

 

LTT Store = 60mm x 60mm = 3,600mm² = $14.99 or $4.16 per m²

LTT Store = 200mm x 160mm = 32,000 mm² = $69.99 or $2.19 per m²

Thermal Grizzly = 50mm x 40mm = 2,000mm² = $10.40 or $5.20 per m²

I think both comments might be from people who skimmed the thread topic. I intentionally mentioned shipping because that is a factor when trying to claim cost advantages. The end price consumers pay is the end price. So, let's look at US specifically then and incorporate shipping costs:

 

(Bigger number = Better in the green highlighted section)

 

Please note I had to assume the same shipping cost for LMG big and small pad since small pad is out of stock and I cannot generate shipping estimate for it at checkout.

 

But it all comes out in the wash IF you actually take final consumer cost into consideration. It is only significantly cheaper IF you buy in bulk and spend $80 (including shipping) up front @ LTT store. Not suitable for average consumers who want to upgrade maybe one laptop and one desktop.

 

Not to mention LTT's shipping is not always fast, nor reliable (reference commuter backpack debacle). Even when shipping to the 48 contiguous states.

[MarkPol88]

1 hour ago, CasualExtremist said:

what footing does LMG hold in the phase change pad market anymore?

It sells. I would think that this is enough for any store?

Additionally I do not think that TG one is manufactured by Honeywell, so if you want original PTM7950 LTT store is still viable.

[ARandomPerson]

1 hour ago, PDifolco said:

TG is a small German company (it's headed by DerBauer), getting it from LTT may be more practical in the US

That depends on how close you are to a Microcenter https://www.microcenter.com/product/683870/thermal-grizzly-phasesheet-ptm-thermal-pad-50x40mm

[CasualExtremist]

5 minutes ago, MarkPol88 said:

It sells. I would think that this is enough for any store?

Additionally I do not think that TG one is manufactured by Honeywell, so if you want original PTM7950 LTT store is still viable.

Potentially viable/sellable when it is in stock. Feels a lot like the NVIDIA "paper launch" 3M is probably not concerned with their smallest customer and so I think supply is the source of the out of stock issue more than the demand is.

 

Claiming what TG's manufacturer is or is not without knowing doesn't do much for me. I did find a spec sheet they released, but it is not very telling either.

https://www.thermal-grizzly.com/media/a4/d4/59/1721983254/TG_Datasheet_PS_EN_TGU20240731.pdf

 

If you read up on the phase change pad market, you'll find non-3M products are always less than 0.25mm thick. TG's is 0.25mm thick. I would place my bet on TG being 3M product even though not specified.

 

 

Just now, ARandomPerson said:

That depends on how close you are to a Microcenter https://www.microcenter.com/product/683870/thermal-grizzly-phasesheet-ptm-thermal-pad-50x40mm

Not sure how that means much when Amazon and Newegg are same price and ship anywhere in USA for free...

[LogicalDrm]

11 hours ago, CasualExtremist said:

Not sure how that means much when Amazon and Newegg are same price and ship anywhere in USA for free...

AFAIK both Amazon and Newegg only offer free shipping with asterisk. Meaning either with subscription service or minimum order value. To which pickup from local store is only free option. Faster too if item is in stock there. As even with same day shipping, there's 1-3 day handling time.

 

Also, if this is to be read from US standpoint, your price for shipping with TG is wrong. It's $6.90 only for domestic to Germany. For US, shipping is $26.94, with current conversion rates. Added any import costs. Unless they have warehouse/store in US.

 

To which conclusion would be, isn't it better to have this available in more than one trusted store? It will keep prices low (LTT and TG probably less likely to go for "scalper prices") and maybe even lower if availability gets better/wider. Plus the notion that current global economy is bit unstable due political reasons. Having this available in your own region eliminates extra costs from international shipping and import fees.

[CasualExtremist]

On 3/22/2025 at 3:41 AM, LogicalDrm said:

AFAIK both Amazon and Newegg only offer free shipping with asterisk. Meaning either with subscription service or minimum order value. To which pickup from local store is only free option. Faster too if item is in stock there. As even with same day shipping, there's 1-3 day handling time.

 

Also, if this is to be read from US standpoint, your price for shipping with TG is wrong. It's $6.90 only for domestic to Germany. For US, shipping is $26.94, with current conversion rates. Added any import costs. Unless they have warehouse/store in US.

 

To which conclusion would be, isn't it better to have this available in more than one trusted store? It will keep prices low (LTT and TG probably less likely to go for "scalper prices") and maybe even lower if availability gets better/wider. Plus the notion that current global economy is bit unstable due political reasons. Having this available in your own region eliminates extra costs from international shipping and import fees.

Your conclusion I can agree with. Competition is good. A great perspective my bias clouded initially. Mostly because I am not sure how much market capture they have relative to TG since it would seem LTT mostly relies on their fan base as customers. Regardless, competition = good*

 

Corrections to my numbers you mentioned do not seem as impactful to the results I calculated as you are claiming:
- Importing from TG directly from Germany was already the least cost-effective method. Adding $20 doesn't change that ranking.

 

- When I went to check out as a guest on the newegg site, I got to the payment method screen with a promise of free shipping (For a single unit), no asterisks. No need to sign in and have a membership. As of writing this, price on newegg has gone down by $1 making it even more advantageous for the US market.

 

- I am also weary of adding Prime cost to amazon. You either have it because you use it and then can spread that cost over the summation of products purchased (including TV show services and whatever else bundles w/ Prime) for that year (or month) OR you don't have it, but know someone who has Prime and can order it for you. If they are nice, they won't even charge extra.

 

_{^{*Assuming no unusual incentive structures are created that victimize consumers in the spirit of competing companies}}

[Rarity]

seeing that you mention that TG has the ptm pads now , that would be easier to find over here , since the retailers here carry the TG stuff , so its gonna pop up sooner or later here.. 

[Agall]

5 hours ago, CasualExtremist said:

Regardless, competition = good*

If it wasn't profitable for LTT to keep them in stock, then they simply wouldn't.

[tkitch]

simple answer:

Yes.

Why?  Because ordering from a second store is dumb.  If you're ordering TG Stuff?  Order the PTM from TG.

If you're ordering LTT Stuff?  Order PTM from LTT.

(Or just get it from LTT if you're ordering the big pack, cuz that's a discount yo)

 

[LogicalDrm]

6 hours ago, CasualExtremist said:

Your conclusion I can agree with. Competition is good. A great perspective my bias clouded initially. Mostly because I am not sure how much market capture they have relative to TG since it would seem LTT mostly relies on their fan base as customers. Regardless, competition = good*

To answer title question. Is it worth? Well. 1000pc of pads probably take as much storage space as one backbag. So storage costs are nothing. Considering retail price per piece is around $10, assume bulk price is around $5. $5k to buy that 1000pc pack. Nothing in the grand scheme. It's so small fraction that they would be even noted when inventory is being optimised. So whether it's worth for LMG to restock or not is more of the question than anything else. And that depends on how fast they are moving. If it's whole amount in a month, then it's worth it imo. But ofc impossible to say for sure.

[CasualExtremist]

23 minutes ago, Agall said:

If it wasn't profitable for LTT to keep them in stock, then they simply wouldn't.

Part of the topic is how they don't keep stock very well as of current.. 

[CasualExtremist]

14 minutes ago, tkitch said:

simple answer:

Yes.

Why?  Because ordering from a second store is dumb.  If you're ordering TG Stuff?  Order the PTM from TG.

If you're ordering LTT Stuff?  Order PTM from LTT.

(Or just get it from LTT if you're ordering the big pack, cuz that's a discount yo)

 

That's part of the oddity that I see currently. They restocked the bulk deal, but not the normal size. It was less confusing when they had none because it is documented in one of the WAN shows how insignificant LTT is to someone like 3M.

 

I originally took the angle of cost/profit and wondered if the TG competition made them less invested in pursuing 3M, but it would seem there are many other layers to unravel that are more likely the smoking gun to my initial question.

 

Logistically, the only incentive structure I could imagine is cutting down on packaging and shipping hassle for the LTT store crew since the smaller thermal pad option is more affordable to a wider range of their customer base and could be bought on its own. Whereas if you're about to blow $80 on thermal pads, you probably have enough disposable income to pick up something else from the store, likely giving them more net profit. But all that is a stretch and I don't really know how they have the larger pad, but not the smaller.

[Agall]

27 minutes ago, CasualExtremist said:

Part of the topic is how they don't keep stock very well as of current.. 

Then its probably not profitable anymore  

[CasualExtremist]

Just now, Agall said:

Then its probably not profitable anymore  

Very insightful

[tkitch]

16 hours ago, CasualExtremist said:

That's part of the oddity that I see currently. They restocked the bulk deal, but not the normal size. It was less confusing when they had none because it is documented in one of the WAN shows how insignificant LTT is to someone like 3M.

 

I originally took the angle of cost/profit and wondered if the TG competition made them less invested in pursuing 3M, but it would seem there are many other layers to unravel that are more likely the smoking gun to my initial question.

 

Logistically, the only incentive structure I could imagine is cutting down on packaging and shipping hassle for the LTT store crew since the smaller thermal pad option is more affordable to a wider range of their customer base and could be bought on its own. Whereas if you're about to blow $80 on thermal pads, you probably have enough disposable income to pick up something else from the store, likely giving them more net profit. But all that is a stretch and I don't really know how they have the larger pad, but not the smaller.

LTT has a lot of stock issues, and they've typically been fairly open about the fact it's been an issue on a number of topics.

Also, they don't get the pads from 3M Directly, because 3M won't talk to someone that small.  They get the pads from someone who buys 7950 by the ton or something.