Lossless scaling v AI frame gen?

Cramig88 · March 17

Hey all, wasn’t sure where I should post this one cause it bleeds over from GPU to monitor. Anyway here we go

now I understand why ppl are upset about frame gen with the 5k series. Totally get it, I’m on your side I have a 4090 and it only interpolates 1 frame depending if the title supports it. Least I think it’s one frame? I mean, could be one frame inbetween what’s rendered, or one a second. I presume one between rendered is the most logical

I have a 4090 as mentioned, but it’s also paired with a G9. That being said I run at full 5120x1440@240hz. I tweaked around with DLSS stuff and found a way to make it render at 5120 rather than say idk 1080p and upscale to 5120. I don’t see any performance impact. Maybe I lost 1-2fps so all is fine

but depending on the demand of the title I could be at 60-90fps on some, most play around 120, some even higher. Mind you my screen does have VRR, variable refresh same as my tv. We’re gonna leave the tv part outta this convo or discussion

now I’d prefer to hit 240 if possible, super buttery right? Well it seems there’s an app, haven’t tested it yet, that claims to use ML (machine learning, what “AI” came from) and generates frames

Apparently u can set it up many ways in terms of how many it generates. Say… I get 60 w/ vsync on. Well I can have it do work and output 90, 120, even 240. Idk suppose it does math and figures out how many to make. Whatever. Cool huh?

frame gen on the other hand, w a 5k series, does 1,2,3,4 and possibly more w updates. So there’s my question

what’s the diff between nvidia frame generation and “lossless scaling”?

it seems to me the most cost effective solution would be to spend a whopping $3.50 on this app rather than get a 5k series

and yeah if anybody would like to look into videos/media, there’s plenty about lossless scaling. It’s pretty cool

also the other question. Which came first, lossless scaling or frame gen thru nvidia?

thanks peeps!

Stahlmann · March 17

I've been using Lossless Scaling for a few years now and their frame gen feature is impressive in terms of image quality, I'd even say it has better image quality for interpolated frames than DLSS FG. Especially in terms of UI stability, LSFG (Lossless Scaling Frame Generation) is significantly better.

BUT it's noticeably worse than DLSS FG in terms of latency, comparing them both at 60 fps render rate. (render rate = FPS before FG) I think that's down to Lossless Scaling not having acess to a Reflex-like feature that reduces latency before FG. So far I haven't played any games that required LSFG and also supported reflex, but didn't support DLSS FG so I'm not sure.

And since it doesn't use hardware acceleration like Tensor cores etc. it has more performance overhead, meaning the render rate will have more of an impact. So if you get only 60 fps before FG, you shouldn't expect a straight 2x increase. That also applies to DLSS FG, but it has less performance overhead on it's supported hardware.

So again, to me LSFG looks better than DLSS FG, but at higher input lag and more overhead.

About your last question:

Nvidia was the first to introduce frame gen with the 4000-series. AMD's FSR followed shortly after that. And Lossless scaling came after both of them, trying to offer a low-cost solution for people that didn't have access to DLSS FG and offering wider support than even FSR FG. The great thing about Lossless Scaling is that it works with every application. So you can use FG in games that don't natively support it.

I initially bought it to use it's integer scaling for older games that don't support native 4K. And it's great. I was thrilled to see them also working on their own FG solution. And it's good, and still has more potential.

Cramig88 · March 18

17 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I've been using Lossless Scaling for a few years now and their frame gen feature is impressive in terms of image quality, I'd even say it has better image quality for interpolated frames than DLSS FG. Especially in terms of UI stability, LSFG (Lossless Scaling Frame Generation) is significantly better.

BUT it's noticeably worse than DLSS FG in terms of latency, comparing them both at 60 fps render rate. (render rate = FPS before FG) I think that's down to Lossless Scaling not having acess to a Reflex-like feature that reduces latency before FG. So far I haven't played any games that required LSFG and also supported reflex, but didn't support DLSS FG so I'm not sure.

And since it doesn't use hardware acceleration like Tensor cores etc. it has more performance overhead, meaning the render rate will have more of an impact. So if you get only 60 fps before FG, you shouldn't expect a straight 2x increase. That also applies to DLSS FG, but it has less performance overhead on it's supported hardware.

So again, to me LSFG looks better than DLSS FG, but at higher input lag and more overhead.

About your last question:

Nvidia was the first to introduce frame gen with the 4000-series. AMD's FSR followed shortly after that. And Lossless scaling came after both of them, trying to offer a low-cost solution for people that didn't have access to DLSS FG and offering wider support than even FSR FG. The great thing about Lossless Scaling is that it works with every application. So you can use FG in games that don't natively support it.

I initially bought it to use it's integer scaling for older games that don't support native 4K. And it's great. I was thrilled to see them also working on their own FG solution. And it's good, and still has more potential.

That is a very well analysis on the entire topic. Much props to you, I very well appreciate the content and supporting details.

I hope this post gets hits on google for others who are want to know the fine grain details about it all

also in terms of latency that is somewhat of a minor/minimal concern for me. My bios is tuned so it does get very minimal IO latency. Plus I only play single player games as opposed to, online.

Very informative, very “to the point”, plus it is understandable to any pc enthusiast regardless of their level of knowledge. Your target audience is everyone, very well written

just wish other ppl would chime in because I’d like to hear their thoughts. Two sides of the coin as they’d say. Regardless. Nice