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DDR5/LGA1851/B860M

Fokof
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Go to solution Solved by RONOTHAN##,
3 hours ago, Fokof said:

Can you ignore QVLs especially when its for new hardware?

Kinda yeah. The QVLs are far from exhaustive so a lot of kits that work aren't on there, and I've seen quite a few kits on the QVL not function properly as well. It's not exactly a super useful tool nowadays. 

 

It does still convey some information about what it's capable of, but if you're smart about it you can pretty safely buy kits outside of the QVL without much issue. There are only really 3 components of any given memory kit that actually determine whether it will boot with a given motherboard on DDR5: the memory IC, the PCB, and the PMIC. The memory IC is not made by G.Skill, but rather one of three main companies: Samsung, Micron, or SK Hynix. These memory chips are the main thing that determines motherboard compatibility as each one needs specific BIOS optimizations to be made in order for it to function correctly. The PCB does have a few more suppliers, though a lot of memory companies just source it from one of a handful and thus a lot of the time a kit made by Silicon Power will end up being identical to a kit made by say TeamGroup because of that. G.Skill and Corsair are the main exceptions to this though, they make their own PCBs in house, but seeing as how most of their kits share PCBs (I know the Ripjaws and FlareX5 kits are the same PCB, pretty sure the Tridents are as well, with the Aegis probably coming with the same PCB but I don't know for sure) and they're pretty popular kits, most motherboard manufacturers do still make sure to optimize for them. As for the SPD, this is the voltage regular on the memory stick, and if you want XMP to enable you generally want to make sure the motherboard can actually talk with it, but seeing as how most sticks just use the same Richtek PMIC nowadays this was only really a concern during early Z690. 

 

So anyway, how to use that info. You can find out what memory ICs the motherboard supports by looking at the QVL, you can generally find some kits that list what it has to know if a certain IC works on your board. You then try to figure out what IC it is on your given memory kit, though this is more an art than a science as memory makers will change what IC is on the kit depending on what they have that works in that speed bin (5200 CL40 is usually Micron Rev. A but can be anything, 6000 CL36-36-36 is usually Samsung B die but can be one of the Hynix dies, 6000 CL36-44-44 is almost always Micron Rev. B but can technically be just about anything, anything where the date rate divided by the CAS latency is ~185 or higher is one of the Hynix dies, etc.). The rule of thumb at the moment is that if it has a low CAS latency, it's supported as Hynix dies are usually the first thing optimized for. As for the PCB, just see if a similar kit is on the QVL and that usually indicates that they've optimized for the PCB. There is other stuff about a kit as well that determines its compatibility somewhat, like what frequency it's rated at and what timings it's rated at, but this stuff more applies to whether XMP will enable, and that's a subject that the QVL can't really give you a good indication for (it generally says some very high frequency kits will work when in reality there's a very small chance that they actually do), you more just need to read about what most people have success with for a given setup to see what works. 

 

 

Where are you shopping for RAM? Odds are you would be able to get a better kit for cheaper. $300 for 2x32GB is quite expensive assuming USD, even if you want to spend extra for the non-gamery RAM. 

Posted

Hi guys i bought an ultra5 which needs a ddr5 mobo ($$) - which needs ddr5 ram ($$$) and has NPU that wont work on win10!
Anyway I'm locked in now so i was looking at QVL on the mobo/ram websites and the ram i want is not on either. But there is many other models that have the exact same stats for speed,size,timing,voltage,OC,etc.

Can you ignore QVLs especially when its for new hardware? My local shops all do NOT return opened items, and i don't want to harrass them with returns or lie about it being installed and not working on my PC.

it's very weird that it's not QVL, because there is so many other models all around the one i want that are.
What i have: ultra5, b860m mobo
what i want: gskill aegis5 32x2 6000 black

QVL says: gskill; m5, s5, m5 neo, s5 neo. Corsair dominator, adata, kingston etc etc all in white and black colours. Part numbers with website links below

Intel Ultra 5 - 245KF (link)

Aegis 5 - F5-6000J3636F32GX2-IS (link)
Gigabyte B860M Eagle Wifi6 (link)

cheapest and available, same stats QVL supported RAM: F5-6000J3636F32GX2-RM5NRK (link) (this is $10 more, has RGB and heatsinks that i absolutely hate - Ripjaws M5 Neo in black)


I don't want to just send it on a $300 RAM kit, has anybody got the aegis 5 on b860m? or what would people choose for ram in my place - the functional expensive ram or the riskier but viable choice that i want?
PC is in my main view on desk, expected to run for 75-100K hours @ 10 years like the PC i'm typing on, for an overexagerated analogy let's say you want a regular looking PC case, but the only "supported" case is a crazy Alienware RGB racecar that transforms into a tiki mask with sunglasses and underglow (< link) for $10 more. I just want the basic one please, with the exact same CFM flow but looks normal (< link)
I'm also waiting on replies from gigabyte and gskill, if they can help

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3 hours ago, Fokof said:

Can you ignore QVLs especially when its for new hardware?

Kinda yeah. The QVLs are far from exhaustive so a lot of kits that work aren't on there, and I've seen quite a few kits on the QVL not function properly as well. It's not exactly a super useful tool nowadays. 

 

It does still convey some information about what it's capable of, but if you're smart about it you can pretty safely buy kits outside of the QVL without much issue. There are only really 3 components of any given memory kit that actually determine whether it will boot with a given motherboard on DDR5: the memory IC, the PCB, and the PMIC. The memory IC is not made by G.Skill, but rather one of three main companies: Samsung, Micron, or SK Hynix. These memory chips are the main thing that determines motherboard compatibility as each one needs specific BIOS optimizations to be made in order for it to function correctly. The PCB does have a few more suppliers, though a lot of memory companies just source it from one of a handful and thus a lot of the time a kit made by Silicon Power will end up being identical to a kit made by say TeamGroup because of that. G.Skill and Corsair are the main exceptions to this though, they make their own PCBs in house, but seeing as how most of their kits share PCBs (I know the Ripjaws and FlareX5 kits are the same PCB, pretty sure the Tridents are as well, with the Aegis probably coming with the same PCB but I don't know for sure) and they're pretty popular kits, most motherboard manufacturers do still make sure to optimize for them. As for the SPD, this is the voltage regular on the memory stick, and if you want XMP to enable you generally want to make sure the motherboard can actually talk with it, but seeing as how most sticks just use the same Richtek PMIC nowadays this was only really a concern during early Z690. 

 

So anyway, how to use that info. You can find out what memory ICs the motherboard supports by looking at the QVL, you can generally find some kits that list what it has to know if a certain IC works on your board. You then try to figure out what IC it is on your given memory kit, though this is more an art than a science as memory makers will change what IC is on the kit depending on what they have that works in that speed bin (5200 CL40 is usually Micron Rev. A but can be anything, 6000 CL36-36-36 is usually Samsung B die but can be one of the Hynix dies, 6000 CL36-44-44 is almost always Micron Rev. B but can technically be just about anything, anything where the date rate divided by the CAS latency is ~185 or higher is one of the Hynix dies, etc.). The rule of thumb at the moment is that if it has a low CAS latency, it's supported as Hynix dies are usually the first thing optimized for. As for the PCB, just see if a similar kit is on the QVL and that usually indicates that they've optimized for the PCB. There is other stuff about a kit as well that determines its compatibility somewhat, like what frequency it's rated at and what timings it's rated at, but this stuff more applies to whether XMP will enable, and that's a subject that the QVL can't really give you a good indication for (it generally says some very high frequency kits will work when in reality there's a very small chance that they actually do), you more just need to read about what most people have success with for a given setup to see what works. 

 

 

Where are you shopping for RAM? Odds are you would be able to get a better kit for cheaper. $300 for 2x32GB is quite expensive assuming USD, even if you want to spend extra for the non-gamery RAM. 

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Thanks for your answer, it explains everything perfectly, never have i asked a question online and got the god of the topic as the sole replier

 

5 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I've seen quite a few kits on the QVL not function properly as well. It's not exactly a super useful tool nowadays. 

oh wow

Quote

As for the PCB, just see if a similar kit is on the QVL and that usually indicates that they've optimized for the PCB.

There is other stuff about a kit as well that determines its compatibility somewhat, like what frequency it's rated at

and what timings it's rated at

from what i can see, and the similarities of the partnumbers, the ripjaws seems to be a aegis5 with a heatsink and leds that i don't want, or maybe thats wishful thinking, the statistics all line up perfectly with the QVL model 

Quote

6000 CL36-36-36 is usually Samsung B die but can be one of the Hynix dies

This is the only part that causes any red flags, but based on what youve said i think the aegis should be safe. I do want to enable XMP to the MAXIMUM 6000

Quote

Where are you shopping for RAM? - $300 for 2x32GB is quite expensive assuming USD

$AUD in australia, so 190usd, which is still an ass-ton. my last kit 10years ago was $100au for 4x4gb 3000 XMP
But thats irrelevant i guess, 10 years ago in tech is like 10MYA. every component has at least doubled, except for some small things like mouse+kb have great cheap options now with Bloody and Keychron  (< links)

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14 hours ago, Fokof said:

This is the only part that causes any red flags, but based on what youve said i think the aegis should be safe. I do want to enable XMP to the MAXIMUM 6000

Yeah, Samsung has been fairly well optimized for, and the Hynix dies are actually rather preferred, so this kit shouldn't have any issues with the IC. The only time that can really be a subject of concern is the newer Micron Rev B as that's new enough that it hasn't had a ton of optimizations, and since it doesn't perform that well, not a ton of effort has been put into optimizations for it. 

 

14 hours ago, Fokof said:

$AUD in australia, so 190usd, which is still an ass-ton

OK, that makes a bit more sense, I know the Aussie dollar is generally pretty worthless when it comes to buying PC parts. I was about to say, you can get that same 64GB kit in the US for $150. 

 

There are still some other options that you might look at. I know you don't really want gamer aesthetic, but it's not like you're paying extra for it, and for the Silicon Power kit I'd argue that it looks more business like than the Aegis kit. 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/ChdG3C/patriot-viper-venom-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl36-memory-pvv564g600c36k

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/fB7scf/patriot-viper-venom-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6400-cl32-memory-pvv564g640c32k

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/6npQzy/gskill-ripjaws-s5-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl36-memory-f5-6000j3636f32gx2-rs5k

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/hZhv6h/silicon-power-xpower-pulse-gaming-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-memory-sp064gxlwu60afdj

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Thanks, sounds like it should be great. I'm still kinda torn between the aegis and the s5 neo, the patriot you linked is $250 ($30 saving), not on the QVL but sold via Amazon who DO do open box returns... this may be the best bet
They're ugly to me, but for 30 savings im absolutely fine with appearance, when it was an extra $10 it was a totally different story

5 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

OK, that makes a bit more sense, I know the Aussie dollar is generally pretty worthless when it comes to buying PC parts.

OK you've hit my weak spotr for yapping, It's mostly the exchange rate, but the rest/extra is definitely put onto ADM products simply because we will pay it, it's like oil barrels vs pump price, we all have to buy petrol so they can charge more than they used to* and see no reduction in sales. *price of fuel:oil barrel cost ratio + natural inflation + artificial inflation
Australia is some years the Most Expensive country to Live in vs. Avg wage, the years its not it hangs in the top10 (top10 being Top10 Worst Countries lol)
ALSO we have far less access to range of products - 90% of all the other RAM suggestions are unavailable to me, or cost $30-50aud more
Furthermore we usually pay more for shipping, wait longer, or can't have things shipped, because aus is so remote from all countries,

like hawaii but not cool.

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