(eveyone) LTT store womens line is dying how and what can we all do to fix it?

[NadiaMayer]

As a small number woman in tech, LTT underware have been the most durable, comfortable, and usable bras for my day-to-day use, with good support for a low price.

They have issues with pushing sales, even though these bras are the best I've used. However, the LTT store has a brand conflict that deters most women, except for a small group of tech girls and a few others.

Knowing this, what can we do, and how can we put our heads together to find the best fix? The two white dudes views dont fully get full pitcure

Issues at hand:

• The LTT store brand is not a good fit for women's clothing lines.
• Low price often equals low value, and much of the women's market expects higher prices in stores.
• Online stores: Finding a good fit is so bad that we have a subreddit for it, so risking a purchase to test it is difficult.
• Word of mouth works, but annoying women in tech, who are then isolated from mainstream women's spaces, is not always the best way to push sales.
• Most women are not online as often as I am with men or trans women. So, reaching major female markets is difficult. Yes, the trans market is a market, but it's still a small group, and often they are not even able to use some LTT stuff.

A few ideas I've had:

• Shift branding to LGBT+ and, like DLL said on WAN, programmer socks and maybe a flat-chest bra. binder?
• Check for bra testing YouTube channels. Not a full sponsorship, but sending a set of LTT bras for these channels to review would be cheap and could grab outside branding. maybe check /r/brathatfits
• Double or triple the cost of LTT underwear. Even if they triple the price, they are still way below market price, which may give better margins. This may be worth the smaller batch sizes but has other issues.
• Make an alternative LTT store clothing line branding, removing the tech branding and making more clothing and backpacks. This would help with shifting and would just be a rebrand of the main front site.
• Preorders and batch shipping (unlikely, but listed).
• us viewers pull our bacon numbers we must a connection line to someone push a megaphone.
   

 

 

This little bit of wargaming I'm setting up to see if we can save women. We know the issues, and we're smart and can solve them in a marketable way.

[Poinkachu]

58 minutes ago, NadiaMayer said:

• Double or triple the cost of LTT underwear. Even if they triple the price, they are still way below market price, which may give better margins. This may be worth the smaller batch sizes but has other issues.

Soo.... you actually want peoples to spend more money than they should?

That... sounds....

 

I believe "Higher Price makes something seems better in quality" is applicable to everything, not just woman's clothing.

 

And I do believe that (at least people who are savvy enough about the world) knows that the saying above is not always true.

Hence why we try to look for review from unbiased person. To know the actual value of what we plan to buy.

 

So I'd say there is no need to try and entice people to buy by raising price, just need to spread the word and fact that it is good more. Bra testing channels sounds good actually.

 

Not to mention cheaper price means less likely someone will feel "burned" if it ends up not suitable for them. You are less likely to always remember in mind, talk about, and/or actively spread bad words about it if you doesn't feel the burn.

[Anazecria]

I am not giving out my bra size here but I will say it is a small band with a large cup, which according to LTT's own size guide is not accommodated. Even just looking at the photos I can tell they are not an option for me (how I wish I didn't need underwires!). My size is far from unusual, but most brands don't even bother to make it because it requires extra work to provide the bare minimum in support. The last bra I bought a month ago cost USD$110. The low-end would be around USD$55.

In short, I have no reason to even consider LTT underwear and given the time & work involved to cater to sizes like mine it's likely LTT doesn't think it is worth it. As someone who has struggled to get good bras that fit, I'm glad they work for you though.

[dizmo]

3 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

Soo.... you actually want peoples to spend more money than they should?

That... sounds....

 

I believe "Higher Price makes something seems better in quality" is applicable to everything, not just woman's clothing.

 

And I do believe that (at least people who are savvy enough about the world) knows that the saying above is not always true.

Hence why we try to look for review from unbiased person. To know the actual value of what we plan to buy.

 

So I'd say there is no need to try and entice people to buy by raising price, just need to spread the word and fact that it is good more. Bra testing channels sounds good actually.

 

Not to mention cheaper price means less likely someone will feel "burned" if it ends up not suitable for them. You are less likely to always remember in mind, talk about, and/or actively spread bad words about it if you doesn't feel the burn.

That's not really what they said.

 

They said that quality undergarments are many times the price LTT charges, so they can charge more and people will still buy it.  More so that they're undervaluing the product that they're offering. Not simply raising the price because it'll make it seem like higher quality. It doesn't have to be right up there with the others, just more than it is now. It's also not really spending more than they should. If the line disappears because of inadequate profit, then it has failed. If raising the price fixes that, then it's the right choice to make.

 

I don't think it makes sense to brand LGBT+, that's putting yourself into an even more niche market. The bra testing channels is a good idea, I don't really think branding matters a whole lot for an undergarment (unless it's visible; they're not making lingerie). Pre-ordering and batch ordering isn't a good look and will be far more damaging than simply holding stock.

[NadiaMayer]

5 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

Soo.... you actually want peoples to spend more money than they should?

That... sounds....

 

I believe "Higher Price makes something seems better in quality" is applicable to everything, not just woman's clothing.

 

And I do believe that (at least people who are savvy enough about the world) knows that the saying above is not always true.

Hence why we try to look for review from unbiased person. To know the actual value of what we plan to buy.

 

So I'd say there is no need to try and entice people to buy by raising price, just need to spread the word and fact that it is good more. Bra testing channels sounds good actually.

 

Not to mention cheaper price means less likely someone will feel "burned" if it ends up not suitable for them. You are less likely to always remember in mind, talk about, and/or actively spread bad words about it if you doesn't feel the burn.

this were ideas not plans im looking find threads or tagets we need to make work for lmg

not all them would work I'm trying to work shop something and those where my first order fix on top of my head


 

Quote

I don't think it makes sense to brand LGBT+, that's putting yourself into an even more niche market. The bra testing channels is a good idea, I don't really think branding matters a whole lot for an undergarment (unless it's visible; they're not making lingerie). Pre-ordering and batch ordering isn't a good look and will be far more damaging than simply holding stock. b

i should say just going for the LGBT+ doesnt rule out cis girls either what i was talking about  lots trans people are offen into tech and also chronic online(trendline not everyone as whole) but throwing in some "programer socks" so t speak  or flat chest bra does not take way.

 

5 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

Soo.... you actually want peoples to spend more money than they should?

That... sounds....

 

I believe "Higher Price makes something seems better in quality" is applicable to everything, not just woman's clothing.

 

And I do believe that (at least people who are savvy enough about the world) knows that the saying above is not always true.

Hence why we try to look for review from unbiased person. To know the actual value of what we plan to buy.

 

So I'd say there is no need to try and entice people to buy by raising price, just need to spread the word and fact that it is good more. Bra testing channels sounds good actually.

 

Not to mention cheaper price means less likely someone will feel "burned" if it ends up not suitable for them. You are less likely to always remember in mind, talk about, and/or actively spread bad words about it if you doesn't feel the burn.

Remeber we are in a little bit of online bubble  but event already @Anazecria  says they not be a best fit and bra for us can mean lotts aches and pains in our day to day if we get the wrong ones so the risk of buying a bra we look of time fine the right ones. so (trendline) is that cheap bra online == a world of hurt  from non chronic online girl(trendline)

And I agree cost rise is not a good idea im leaning more on the LTT store brand iusse since it target and branding big sweatty nerds with small LGHT+ side  .

I do think making a alt brand of ltt store(new domain and front end) may drive more

heck maybe send sample packs to twitch streamers help in word of mounth sorta ways not ust review channels.

 

 

 

Im trying brainstom a maybe fix

 

[aminit]

7 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

• Make an alternative LTT store clothing line branding, removing the tech branding and making more clothing and backpacks. This would help with shifting and would just be a rebrand of the main front site.

That sound like a good idea, using the womens clothing as an excuse to spin into a new more mainstream brand and have lttstore.com carry it along with its own website, but then it would mean a need for more product variety and a bigger investment along with it.

[NadiaMayer]

5 hours ago, aminit said:

That sound like a good idea, using the womens clothing as an excuse to spin into a new more mainstream brand and have lttstore.com carry it along with its own website, but then it would mean a need for more product variety and a bigger investment along with it.

 

I think adopting an alternative site with a different brand name, although reminiscent of LMG, may be the way to go. Replace the blacks and oranges with a more open, lighter theme. I know we are all gamer people who love rocking dark modes. However, using a light mode theme, either using a neutral color or maybe a light pink or purple, may be the way to go.

 

And I still think some brand pushing and readjustment may be necessary, at least with the initial bootstrapping and the slow separation between the YouTube channel/brand and its own independent brand.

 

Maybe change it from the LTT store to more of a "Creator Warehouse Store" (CWS), which at least sounds more creative, with more of an objective target on the creation of high-quality and high-durability items and products.

 

Separated probably into three parts: Menswear, Womanswear, and Accessories.

 

Grabbing a few examples from the net:

https://www.bestandless.com.au/

https://www.myer.com.au/

 

I don't know if creator warehouse is listening, or I'm talking out of my own, butt

[manikyath]

13 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

The two white dudes views dont fully get full pitcure

i just want to add to this that the merch team is majority female, and the business team is fairly balanced afaik. it's not "not working" because two white dudes dont get it, it's because their target audience is literally 5% women and this is a plea from two white men to that 5% to save the projects their merch team love to work on.

 

as for the issues at hand...

13 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

Low price often equals low value, and much of the women's market expects higher prices in stores.

that's a you problem. making something more expensive to make it seem more quality is how H&M is making millions selling actual garbage. you dont fix this by making the merch more expensive.

13 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

• Word of mouth works, but annoying women in tech, who are then isolated from mainstream women's spaces, is not always the best way to push sales.

it just so happens that people in tech tend to be their market, tech youtube channel and all.. hence the talk about potentially sponsoring a more topical youtuber.

13 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

• Most women are not online as often as I am with men or trans women. So, reaching major female markets is difficult. Yes, the trans market is a market, but it's still a small group, and often they are not even able to use some LTT stuff.

hard disagree here, from my own environment i'd say if anything women are more connected than men, there's just very little overlap in points of interest online.

 

13 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

• Double or triple the cost of LTT underwear. Even if they triple the price, they are still way below market price, which may give better margins. This may be worth the smaller batch sizes but has other issues.

bigger margins isnt the problem, it's actually selling a full production run. there is no sane business team lead that would suggest tripling price will move more boxes, that's ridiculous.

 

13 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

Make an alternative LTT store clothing line branding, removing the tech branding and making more clothing and backpacks. This would help with shifting and would just be a rebrand of the main front site.

chicken and egg problem.. you need the demand to warrant the supply, you need the supply to market enough to have demand. this very issue has been talked about on wan show.

 

---

 

throwing more money at it is not commercially viable for LMG. if a product line isnt working it gets dropped and replaced by something that hopefully does work. it's simply a matter of shelf space and opportunity cost.

what IMO is the way to keep the womens' merch lines alive, is for people like yourself to word of mouth it to your peers. i cant talk to my female colleagues about how great this womens' underwear is.. that'd get me fired SO FAST.. you're the 5%, tell your friends, make it known, make it happen.

[David A. Tatum]

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

that's a you problem. making something more expensive to make it seem more quality is how H&M is making millions selling actual garbage. you dont fix this by making the merch more expensive.

 

As an author who has to market his own books, sometimes, I can tell you that there's a big difference between "making something more expensive to make it seem more quality" and "pricing to market."  It's the public perception that people want a bargain, but don't want cheap and trashy.  The relatively recent emergence of the self-published book industry proved that was the case even in an emerging market.

Experiments were done comparing the (book) reviews received when a self-published ebook was priced for "free" versus when it was priced for $0.99 (bargain book price) versus when it was priced for... $4.99, I think it was (the then-perceived market standard) vs. $12.99 (the high-end price some more "traditional" sellers were pushing, at the time).  The free book had more "sales" by far, but the reviews put it in the 1-2 star range.  Putting any price on it raised the review range (for the same book), but the best sales and reviews came at the "market standard" price, and the least sales and worst "paid product" reviews were for the "bargain book" price. 

A bit off topic, but along the same line of thinking, similar experiments were done comparing a $2.99 ebook versus a $4.99 discounted to $2.99 -- the discount was better received than the regular price and the the regularly-cheap book.  Also tested was a book from a "known" publisher (with a "known" author) compared to the exact same book from an "unknown" publisher (both with the "known" author's name and an "unknown" psuedonym).  The publisher made minimal difference (which publishers weren't happy about, some of which deciding to price ebooks at outrageously high prices to try to kill the eBook market and push readers back into the traditional paper market, where the publishing house still made a huge difference to their customers -- which weren't the public, but the bookstores.  I could go into this further, but I'm digressing enough as it is), but the author made a huge difference.  There were studies done to figure out what the "expected market standard" ebook price was, and it was determined that genre made a big difference -- Romance novels were expected to be the cheapest (then in the $2.99-3.99 range, though I haven't followed Romance ebook pricing more recently, since I don't write in that genre), while Science Fiction and Fantasy (my genre) were expected to be among the most expensive ebooks (then $4.99-6.99, though I think it's now closer to $5.99-8.99).  Sadly, however, the era of such experimentation appears to have mostly been between 2012-2018, and I haven't seen any such studies or experiments done in recent years.

Are there any lessons to be learned from this for the LTTStore women's line?  Perhaps a few.  I do think pricing to market is something universal, rather than something specific to the eBook market.  I think perhaps some experimental marketing should be done to see what might encourage women to buy LTT-branded products, whether that's in the form of price promotion, outreach to venues outside of the LTTStore, etc. And I think that maybe, just maybe, there's a point to having LTTStore cutting its losses on the women's line, at least until the market for it can be built up for it through other means -- at this point, the "women's" line is likely perceived to be nothing more than swag, like you could get from VistaPrint, so there's no reason for someone who isn't an LMG fan to buy it, so if you were serious about making a true clothing line out of it, you need to do something to break that perception, and that might bring in the market for women's clothing.

 

But that's me.  I don't do tech marketing.  Heck, even in book marketing, I haven't made much of an effort in years, and I like to say that I don't really know what works, I just know what DOESN'T work, so I'm probably all wet.

[manikyath]

4 minutes ago, David A. Tatum said:

As an author who has to market his own books, sometimes, I can tell you that there's a big difference between "making something more expensive to make it seem more quality" and "pricing to market."  It's the public perception that people want a bargain, but don't want cheap and trashy.  The relatively recent emergence of the self-published book industry proved that was the case even in an emerging market.

marketing books <=> marketing underwear.

 

the notion that you want LMG's underwear to be more expensive because that by itself makes it a more premium good is f*cking ridiculous.

 

there are a lot of markets where things are priced to a level the market will bear (heck, that is how computer parts are generally priced..) but i've never in my life heard anyone ask a brand to increase their prices because the market will bear more.

 

now, for a book.. it's sort of about how much you value the book. the value of the book isnt just the paper and ink, it's how much you value it as a piece of art. but has anyone ever told you people arent buying your book because it should be priced 60 bucks instead of 20 bucks? that is just a premise that doesnt make sense.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

18 hours ago, NadiaMayer said:

 

• The LTT store brand is not a good fit for women's clothing lines.
• Low price often equals low value, and much of the women's market expects higher prices in stores.

I'm in the camp of just let it be. It's not like the same thing doesn't happen on the male side. There are so many other brands of durable and comfortable clothing that arguably have terrible value on the mens side compared to the womens. One local favourite in Vancouver is Lululemon. Compare the female Scuba Full-zip hoodie to the male Steady State Full-zip. How is the male one 20 bucks more expensive yet looks as basic as something you would get from Fruit of the Loom.

[manikyath]

7 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Compare the female Scuba Full-zip hoodie to the male Steady State Full-zip. How is the male one 20 bucks more expensive yet looks as basic as something you would get from Fruit of the Loom.

it must be the pockets that cost 20 bucks, because we all know women dont need pockets.

/s

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

15 minutes ago, manikyath said:

it must be the pockets that cost 20 bucks, because we all know women dont need pockets.

/s

The awkward moment when there are pockets. Just cleanly executed rather than just a piece of fabric slapped on top. 

 

[NadiaMayer]

7 hours ago, manikyath said:

i just want to add to this that the merch team is majority female, and the business team is fairly balanced afaik. it's not "not working" because two white dudes dont get it, it's because their target audience is literally 5% women and this is a plea from two white men to that 5% to save the projects their merch team love to work on.

 

as for the issues at hand...

that's a you problem. making something more expensive to make it seem more quality is how H&M is making millions selling actual garbage. you dont fix this by making the merch more expensive.

it just so happens that people in tech tend to be their market, tech youtube channel and all.. hence the talk about potentially sponsoring a more topical youtuber.

hard disagree here, from my own environment i'd say if anything women are more connected than men, there's just very little overlap in points of interest online.

 

bigger margins isnt the problem, it's actually selling a full production run. there is no sane business team lead that would suggest tripling price will move more boxes, that's ridiculous.

 

chicken and egg problem.. you need the demand to warrant the supply, you need the supply to market enough to have demand. this very issue has been talked about on wan show.

 

---

 

throwing more money at it is not commercially viable for LMG. if a product line isnt working it gets dropped and replaced by something that hopefully does work. it's simply a matter of shelf space and opportunity cost.

what IMO is the way to keep the womens' merch lines alive, is for people like yourself to word of mouth it to your peers. i cant talk to my female colleagues about how great this womens' underwear is.. that'd get me fired SO FAST.. you're the 5%, tell your friends, make it known, make it happen.

the the Two white dudes are inn context of branding not the BTS

ive tired to word of mouth the ltt bra they get shot down over the yt merch so it bad and this looks like a mens site they offput by brand directly doesnt matter that CW makes good items if the site brand and theme dont click they wont bite

As for the cost arguemnts the ideas i listed at start not all viabale use a starting point see what we can do
 

[David A. Tatum]

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

now, for a book.. it's sort of about how much you value the book. the value of the book isnt just the paper and ink, it's how much you value it as a piece of art. but has anyone ever told you people arent buying your book because it should be priced 60 bucks instead of 20 bucks? that is just a premise that doesnt make sense.

 

No, never had someone suggest a book should be priced $60 instead of $20.  However, I have heard people say they won't ever consider buying books priced under $2.99, because they figure that's the sign of it being an amateur product not worth the money, and the sales numbers and reviews of books priced at those levels seem to prove that a not-uncommon view.

Do I think the women's products should be priced at "premium" levels?  No.  But I don't usually buy women's underwear, so I don't know what the market price is -- if I hear someone who does routinely shop for women's underwear say that this women's underwear feels like it's priced below expectation, I don't immediately dismiss them -- instead, I would conduct market research to see what price the underwear SHOULD be.  If it's too low, maybe raise it, or if it's too high, maybe lower it.  It may be that, at the current price, people feel they could only possibly be buying absolute crap, but if they raise the price just $1, it'll make people feel like they're buying a bargain item.

[saintlouisbagels]

6 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

One local favourite in Vancouver is Lululemon. Compare the female Scuba Full-zip hoodie to the male Steady State Full-zip. How is the male one 20 bucks more expensive yet looks as basic as something you would get from Fruit of the Loom.

Lululemon isn't really the right brand to bash. They're expensive... but their clothing IS quality.  Their clothing is always among the top recommended for best pants, leggings, etc. They just need a competitor to make the same quality clothing at lower prices. Vuori kind of fills that void, but it's only like a $10-$20 difference between brands.. and going from $110 yoga pants to $90 yoga pants is still ****ing expensive.

 

Even my best friends (girls) think LLL is overpriced and they would never buy them, but their parents/friends have bought them pairs for Christmases and Birthdays, and they've raved about how much better they feel. And as a dude with wandering eyes.. they look amazing in them lol.

One of my guy friends loves their hoodies and jackets.

 

I've been watching this YT channel lately and I love the insider knowledge on things people would never notice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gCtE-ifxU

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Lululemon isn't really the right brand to bash. They're expensive... but their clothing IS quality.  Their clothing is always among the top recommended for best pants, leggings, etc. They just need a competitor to make the same quality clothing at lower prices. Vuori kind of fills that void, but it's only like a $10-$20 difference between brands.. and going from $110 yoga pants to $90 yoga pants is still ****ing expensive.

 

Even my best friends (girls) think LLL is overpriced and they would never buy them, but their parents/friends have bought them pairs for Christmases and Birthdays, and they've raved about how much better they feel. And as a dude with wandering eyes.. they look amazing in them lol.

One of my guy friends loves their hoodies and jackets.

 

I've been watching this YT channel lately and I love the insider knowledge on things people would never notice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gCtE-ifxU

Not really bashing but I wished more design elements translated to the male side as well. Going back to full zip hoodies, there are guys out there who wish there was 1 for 1 equivalent to the Scuba on the male side. I like having thumb holes (which are rare on the male side in general) and the fact it zips up to the chin and covers the neck for those cold days. 

 

The materials are the same across both sides of the store. But its these small touches and the variety of patterns that are missing which make the male section a bit of an afterthought. But it's a brand that built its roots on women athletic wear so it is what it is. Similar to LTT here where a majority of the audience is male.