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I think I got unlucky with my 9800X3D? Should I delid?

I posted this on reddit but didn't get much help, my 9800X3D is overheating within 1 second of running OCCT as can be seen here, Imgur: The magic of the Internet. and in normal gameplay (mostly ff14 atm), it reaches 94c as can be seen here Imgur: The magic of the Internet & here Imgur: The magic of the Internet. The latter one reached 99c somehow. the results are all while running a -20 on curve optimizer (as it's the only way to not reach 101/102c)

 

 

I've used 3 coolers, 2x thermalright assassin mini (one new and one was used in my previous build with great results), 1x liquid freezer 3 280.

3 different kinds of pastes applied multiple times each, mx4, tf7, kryonaut.

1 PCM.

 

Due to ordering internationally, I can't return this (shipped to US and used reshipping service to my country).

 

I am mostly settled on that this is an "IHS not making proper contact with the die" kind of issue that i got unlucky with unless there are any other possibilities? If not, I am thinking of delidding, but I need info regarding the delidding process on the 9800X3D, should I delid apply LM on die and IHS and re-seat IHS? or does the solder take too much height for this to be successful? If its not possible, how much millimeter should I remove from the spacers and the screws to directly cool the die?

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under no circumstances should you be delidding a 9800x3D like this. Seems like a user error reading the data given to you.

 

What is your case? What are the fan speeds at?

 

A maximum thermal spike of 95c is absolutely okay, as long as the actual in game thermals are in the 60-70s range. If it was pinned at 90c+ at all times under a gaming load that would be an issue, but the two screenshots show just a peak temperature of when everything is loading before the CPU fan speeds catch up, and the thermals are in the mid 60s.

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2 minutes ago, Battler624 said:

I need info regarding the delidding process on the 9800X3D, should I delid apply LM on die and IHS and re-seat IHS? or does the solder take too much height for this to be successful? If its not possible, how much millimeter should I remove from the spacers and the screws to directly cool the die?

deb8uer makes a delid tool and has multiple guides on it

 

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12 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

A maximum thermal spike of 95c is absolutely okay, as long as the actual in game thermals are in the 60-70s range. If it was pinned at 90c+ at all times under a gaming load that would be an issue, but the two screenshots show just a peak temperature of when everything is loading before the CPU fan speeds catch up, and the thermals are in the mid 60s.

yeah spike to 95C that drops below 90C is fine (and stays below 90C)

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Is overheating running OCCT in 1 second fine? on a 280mm aio? the fans dont even have time to spin up.

 

8 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

under no circumstances should you be delidding a 9800x3D like this. Seems like a user error reading the data given to you.

 

What is your case? What are the fan speeds at?

 

A maximum thermal spike of 95c is absolutely okay, as long as the actual in game thermals are in the 60-70s range. If it was pinned at 90c+ at all times under a gaming load that would be an issue, but the two screenshots show just a peak temperature of when everything is loading before the CPU fan speeds catch up, and the thermals are in the mid 60s.

 

Open test bench for now, and ingame I run at 82c avg (framerate locked to 116fps, background framerate at 30, if I unlock the framerate it reaches higher)

 

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13 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

deb8uer makes a delid tool and has multiple guides on it

 

I saw that video and I have the general idea about it but unlike derbauer I do not wish to use custom water cooling which is why I asked if I can reuse the IHS and if not how much should I shave off the screws so the air-cooler or AIO i have would fit?

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5 minutes ago, Battler624 said:

Is overheating running OCCT in 1 second fine? on a 280mm aio? the fans dont even have time to spin up.

 

 

Open test bench for now, and ingame I run at 82c avg (framerate locked to 116fps, background framerate at 30, if I unlock the framerate it reaches higher)

 

Mkay but what about the fan speed? Are you using Fan control or are you just using BIOS fan settings? I manually control fan speeds with fan control, so that they are at the speed they should be before the test starts.

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Just now, Shimejii said:

Mkay but what about the fan speed? Are you using Fan control or are you just using BIOS fan settings? I manually control fan speeds with fan control, so that they are at the speed they should be before the test starts.

just bios fan settings but even setting them to 100% the occt test overheats within seconds.

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46 minutes ago, Battler624 said:

I posted this on reddit but didn't get much help, my 9800X3D is overheating within 1 second of running OCCT as can be seen here, Imgur: The magic of the Internet. and in normal gameplay (mostly ff14 atm), it reaches 94c as can be seen here Imgur: The magic of the Internet & here Imgur: The magic of the Internet. The latter one reached 99c somehow. the results are all while running a -20 on curve optimizer (as it's the only way to not reach 101/102c)

 

 

I've used 3 coolers, 2x thermalright assassin mini (one new and one was used in my previous build with great results), 1x liquid freezer 3 280.

3 different kinds of pastes applied multiple times each, mx4, tf7, kryonaut.

1 PCM.

 

Due to ordering internationally, I can't return this (shipped to US and used reshipping service to my country).

 

I am mostly settled on that this is an "IHS not making proper contact with the die" kind of issue that i got unlucky with unless there are any other possibilities? If not, I am thinking of delidding, but I need info regarding the delidding process on the 9800X3D, should I delid apply LM on die and IHS and re-seat IHS? or does the solder take too much height for this to be successful? If its not possible, how much millimeter should I remove from the spacers and the screws to directly cool the die?

Unfortunately, you might be on to something about the indium solder, given what you've tried, but I wouldn't jump into delidding lightly. Its also possible the sensor is messed up and causing it to throttle, something that direct-die cooling might not solve.

 

LM has a worse heat flux than the indium solder they use, so delidding to do that simply doesn't make sense. The solder is pretty thick, I wouldn't think LM could successfully make contact without it being a conductivity risk.

 

Direct-die cooling is the way to go, but I wouldn't recommend it lightly (as someone who successfully did it to a 7950x3D). I did this mod with an NH-D15 and their direct-die spacers, all of which should still work with the 9800x3D. Only significant variable to consider is that a single CCD direct-die mod and an air cooler might not mesh well, since that's a lot of force put on the CCD die asymmetrically. A direct-die water block would be the way to go to mitigate this.

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4 minutes ago, Agall said:

Unfortunately, you might be on to something about the indium solder, given what you've tried, but I wouldn't jump into delidding lightly. Its also possible the sensor is messed up and causing it to throttle, something that direct-die cooling might not solve.

 

LM has a worse heat flux than the indium solder they use, so delidding to do that simply doesn't make sense. The solder is pretty thick, I wouldn't think LM could successfully make contact without it being an electric risk.

 

Direct-die cooling is the way to go, but I wouldn't recommend it lightly (as someone who successfully did it to a 7950x3D). I did this mod with an NH-D15 and their direct-die spacers, all of which should still work with the 9800x3D. Only significant variable to consider is that a single CCD direct-die mod and an air cooler might not mesh well, since that's a lot of weight to put on a die asymmetrically. A direct-die water block would be the way to go to mitigate this.

I looked into the noctua direct-die stuff and was thinking of getting them as it seems that their screw+spacer would fit my peerless assassin installation (the NH-D15 stuff work with the peerless assassin mini so I assume their direct die stuff would too) there is one problem tho.

the step-by-step guide mention using a direct die frame but there isn't any frame that is compatible with the 9800x3d yet.

 

And I really cant do a custom loop, not anytime soon budget wise.

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13 minutes ago, Battler624 said:

the step-by-step guide mention using a direct die frame but there isn't any frame that is compatible with the 9800x3d yet.

Nothing a dremel can't fix to open up the contact frame. You might need a spacer for the 2nd CCD if there's not one already, some single CCD CPUs have dummy CCDs installed, rejected 9950x3D's probably.

 

I wouldn't recommend risking a DIY calculation for spacing off a PA for a 9800x3D. You'd be better off just having it run hot than risking that in my opinion.

Builder/Enthusiast/Overclocker since 2012 who spends way too much money on computer hardware.

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1 hour ago, Battler624 said:

I've used 3 coolers, 2x thermalright assassin mini (one new and one was used in my previous build with great results), 1x liquid freezer 3 280.

3 different kinds of pastes applied multiple times each, mx4, tf7, kryonaut.

1 PCM.

Have you considered the variable that these coolers aren't making proper contact with the IHS because of the socket/backplate? Does the thermal paste after removing the cooler look like its evenly spread?

Builder/Enthusiast/Overclocker since 2012 who spends way too much money on computer hardware.

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1 hour ago, podkall said:

yeah spike to 95C that drops below 90C is fine (and stays below 90C)

yikes! im getting a crisis if my cpu (or gpu) goes over 70 lol... 💀

 

by "it's fine" i hope meant "it doesn't die outright at the instant"??? 

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23 minutes ago, Agall said:

Have you considered the variable that these coolers aren't making proper contact with the IHS because of the socket/backplate? Does the thermal paste after removing the cooler look like its evenly spread?

Its perfectly spread yes.

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

yikes! im getting a crisis if my cpu (or gpu) goes over 70 lol... 💀

 

by "it's fine" i hope meant "it doesn't die outright at the instant"??? 

I am usually in the fine category but I've never had a CPU overheat like this not even when I forgot to remove the cpu sticker.

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1 minute ago, Battler624 said:

Its perfectly spread yes.

I am usually in the fine category but I've never had a CPU overheat like this not even when I forgot to remove the cpu sticker.

bro yeah, its just weird to me im playing games my cpu doesn't go above 50-60c... i get it, it can spike but constantly around 90? that means its constantly throttling and drying out the paste... i think something is wrong with your cooler mount, i doubt its the cpu itself but who knows... maybe post some pics people might be able to see something. 

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MSI Afterburner 

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VLC

WMP

GIMP

HWiNFO64

Paint

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GitHub Desktop 

Superposition 

Prime95

Aida64

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Just use it.

 

If you have to make a thread here, then you don't need to delid it.

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Just now, Mark Kaine said:

bro yeah, its just weird to me im playing games my cpu doesn't go above 50-60c... i get it, it can spike but constantly around 90? that means its constantly throttling and drying out the paste... i think something is wrong with your cooler mount, i doubt its the cpu itself but who knows... maybe post some pics people might be able to see something. 

3 coolers 3 pastes and a phase change material, I do not think a mounting issue.

If this was my first build then maybe I've made a huge mistake but I've been building PCs for more than 15 years and not just for myself. I have literally built a 7700x version of my current setup without issues (I recall it reaching 70c during tests but not much higher)

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Just now, Battler624 said:

and when do i "need" to delid it?

Never.

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Just now, Battler624 said:

And If the IHS wasn't properly soldered to the die?

Then it would fail testing at the factory

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Is this CPU at stock, or have you tuned it in any way?

AMD R9 9900X @ Booost | Thermalright Frozen Edge 360, 3x TL-B12
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1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

yikes! im getting a crisis if my cpu (or gpu) goes over 70 lol... 💀

 

by "it's fine" i hope meant "it doesn't die outright at the instant"??? 

AM5 Ryzen shenanigans?

 

 

Note: Users receive notifications after Mentions & Quotes. 

Feel free: To ask any question, no matter what question it is, I will try to answer. I know a lot about PCs but not everything.

current PC:

Ryzen 5 5600 |16GB DDR4 3200Mhz | B450 | GTX 1080 ti [further details on my profile]

PCs I used before:

  1. Pentium G4500 | 4GB/8GB DDR4 2133Mhz | H110 | GTX 1050
  2. Ryzen 3 1200 3,5Ghz / OC:4Ghz | 8GB DDR4 2133Mhz / 16GB 3200Mhz | B450 | GTX 1050
  3. Ryzen 3 1200 3,5Ghz | 16GB 3200Mhz | B450 | GTX 1080 ti
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