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SAS HBA and SAS Expander across two cases? How do I use SAS expander?

Go to solution Solved by Electronics Wizardy,

That should work, Ive done similar setups before and it ran fine. 

 

 

Here is my proposed solution to link two cases of drives together cheaply. 

HBA - LSI 9305-16I

External ports 10Gtek Mini SAS Adapter

SAS Expander: Adaptec AEC-82885T
image.thumb.png.a5d5415b335e8486552dd336426dfc04.png

 

Is this setup going to work? Am I going to be bandwidth limited in Case 2 because of the SAS expander? My other solution was to get a much more expensive HBA, the 9305-24i for $200 and have 6 mini-SAS connectors instead. Then I would route that to two of the 10Gtek mini SAS adapters, which then go to 2 more 10Gtek mini SAS adapters in case 2.

 

So it would either be:

 

Setup 1 ($150):

x1 LSI 9305-16l

x1 10Gtek SAS adapter

x1 Adaptec SAS expander

 

Setup 2 ($300):

x1 LSI 9305-24i

x4 10Gtek SAS adapter

Gaming - Ryzen 5800X3D | 64GB 3200mhz  MSI 6900 XT Mini-ITX SFF Build

Home Server (Unraid OS) - Ryzen 5950x | 128GB ECC 3200mhz |  EVGA 1060 6GB | 6TB SSD Cache [3x2TB] 66TB HDD [11x6TB]

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Is Case 1 big enough to acommodate all your drives? If so you could just run the SAS expander internally. It doesn't need a PCIe slot for anything but power.

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1 hour ago, suchamoneypit said:

Is this setup going to work?

Yep. I'm running almost exactly this same setup right now. I have a somewhat janky system (involving 3.5mm headphone jacks + aux cable and a 12V relay on the receiving end) to trigger the PSU in the external enclosure when the server PSU kicks on.

 

I have a 9300-8i with all 8 lanes (two cables) connected to my first expander, which goes internally to 8 drives and externally to another expander, which in turn is connected to 8 more drives (possibly more in the future).

 

1 hour ago, suchamoneypit said:

Am I going to be bandwidth limited in Case 2 because of the SAS expander?

I haven't noticed it if I am. I can R/W to my 8 disk array (RAIDZ2) at almost 1GBps. A 4-port 12Gbps SAS link is almost 5GBps. I only have a single SFF-8644 cable out to my external enclosure.

 

1 hour ago, suchamoneypit said:

x1 10Gtek SAS adapter

On a sidenote: those SAS expanders are cheaper than those passthrough adapters, so why not just use another one instead (with a cheaper 8i SAS card) and get yourself more ports internally too? That was my epiphany a little ways into my project. As far as I can tell, you can kinda just keep chaining expanders like Ethernet switches.

 

Also don't forget to factor in cable costs. SAS cables aren't as cheap as other kinds, so you're looking at ~$10 per cable.

 

On my own medium-term project list is a design for a mini-ITX dummy "motherboard" (though technically it will have a processor and RAM, via the microcontroller for the fans lol) which can power those SAS expanders via a "PCIe" slot (no data, just power), as well as control PWM fans, mount/power 2.5" drives, and trigger an ATX power supply via a signal from the host system. I have the PCB design experience, just not the mechanical engineering prowess for some of the more involved bits. It's slow going, but I want to have something concrete by summer.

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 7 5800X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-14 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / 4× Crucial MX500 2TB (RAID-0) | Corsair RM750X | Silicom (Intel) X540-AT2 10G NIC | Inateck USB 3.0 Card | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | SKHynix P31 1TB NVMe SSD | Intel AX200 Wifi | Asus 2.5G USB NIC | Asus ProArt PA278QV | Keychron K12 Blue (RGB backlight)

 

Proxmox Server (Veda): Ryzen 7 3800XT | ASRock Rack X470D4U | Corsair H80i v2 | 64GB Micron DDR4 ECC 3200MT/s | 4× WD 10TB / 4× Seagate 14TB Exos / 8× WD 12TB (custom external SAS enclosure) / 2× Samsung PM963a 960GB SSD | Seasonic Prime Fanless 500W | Intel X550-T2 10G NIC | LSI 9300-8i HBA | Adaptec 82885T SAS Expander | Fractal Design Node 804 Case

 

Proxmox Server (La Vie en Rose)GMKtec Mini PC | Ryzen 7 5700U | 32GB Lexar RAM (SODIMM) | Vega 8 Graphics | Lexar 1TB 610 Pro SSD | 2× Realtek 8125 2.5G NICs


Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta Cannon): Ryzen 5 1600X | ASRock B450M Pro4 R2.0 | Noctua NH-L12S | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-22 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | UMIS NVMe SSD 256GB / TEAMGROUP MS30 1TB | Corsair CX450M | Viewcast Osprey 260e Video Capture | TrendNet (Marvell 88X3310P) 10G NIC | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case | Sony XR65A80K

 

Workbench (Doven Wolf): Lenovo m715q | Ryzen Pro 3 2200GE | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-22 (SODIMM) | Vega 8 Graphics | SKHynix (OEM) 256GB NVMe SSD | uni 2.5G USB NIC | HDMI add-in module

 

Network:

Spoiler
                         ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ──── UniFi Cloud Gateway Max ═╦═ UniFi Flex XG ══╦═ Veda (Intel X550-T2.1)
(500Mbps↑/500Mbps↓)  (Asus USB 2½G NIC) Narrative ═╬═ La Vie en Rose  ╠═ Veda-NAS (Intel X550-T2.2)
                     (uni USB 2½G NIC) Doven Wolf ═╝  (Proxmox)       ╟─ UniFi Switch 8-60W ─┬─ Veda (IPMI)
╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝                      └─ La Vie en Rose
║ ┌── Closet ───┐    ┌─────────────── Bedroom ────────────────────────────────────────┐
╚═ UniFi Flex XG ═╦╤═ UniFi Flex XG ═╤╦═ Byarlant (Silicom Intel X540-AT2)
           (PoE)  ║│                 │╠═ Narrative (Cable Matters 2½G NIC w/ USB-PD)
   Kitchen Jack ══╣└─ Dual PoE ┐     │╚═ Jesta Cannon* (Trendnet Marvell 88X3310P)
      (Testing)   ║┌─ Injector ┘     └── Work Laptop (Startech USB-PD Dock)
        Bedroom ══╝│
        Jack #2    │        ┌──────── Media Center ───────────────────────────────────┐
                   └──────── UniFi Switch 8 ────┬─ UniFi Access Point nanoHD (PoE)
Notes:                                          ├─ Sony PlayStation 4 
─── is Gigabit / ═══ is Multi-Gigabit           ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed from Bedroom to Media Center   └─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
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1 hour ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

That should work, Ive done similar setups before and it ran fine. 

 

 

Thanks. Any concerns with bandwidth you know about? Given its just going to 10 hardrives, and assuming half of the cards bandwidth goes to the 2 cables which go to the expander, I expect at least 6GBps which should be enough. 
 

1 hour ago, Needfuldoer said:

Is Case 1 big enough to acommodate all your drives? If so you could just run the SAS expander internally. It doesn't need a PCIe slot for anything but power.

Its not. I currently have 11x6TB drives. I have a planned future upgrade switching instead to 10 12TB drives. But I want a setup that allows future expansion. With this setup, I can easily expand to a second 10 bay rackmount case and have 20 drives total. I plan to initially have x10 12TB drives, and x10 6TB drives. Eventually I can go to x20 12TB drives. I can also support the 6TB and 12TB drive sets at the same time initially to make data migration way easier.

 

Im going to migrate to a rackmount case with the 10 drives, and Im just planning ahead to be able to scale to a second case with another 10. Notable these are short depth rack mount cases which is very convenient for my use. 

Gaming - Ryzen 5800X3D | 64GB 3200mhz  MSI 6900 XT Mini-ITX SFF Build

Home Server (Unraid OS) - Ryzen 5950x | 128GB ECC 3200mhz |  EVGA 1060 6GB | 6TB SSD Cache [3x2TB] 66TB HDD [11x6TB]

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7 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

 

 

On a sidenote: those SAS expanders are cheaper than those passthrough adapters, so why not just use another one instead (with a cheaper 8i SAS card) and get yourself more ports internally too? That was my epiphany a little ways into my project. As far as I can tell, you can kinda just keep chaining expanders like Ethernet switches.

 

Also don't forget to factor in cable costs. SAS cables aren't as cheap as other kinds, so you're looking at ~$10 per cable.

 

 

By using the passthrough adapter, I can have an easily removed cable between the two cases. It probably is easier to directly route a cable though. For ease of maintenance, I want to be able to disconnect this at the back of the case without touching any internal wiring. 

I'm not forgetting cable costs too, but aren't a major factor. I saw some even $15-20 per cable. Im probably buying $60-90 in cables regardless. The $30 difference doesnt matter to me but a $200 vs $65 HBA is a bigger decision. The other big factor here is Im using a MicroATX board in Case 1, and would like to use a miniITX in case 2, so PCIE slots are a big limitation to consider here as I also need to support so many M.2 NVME SSDs. 

 

The plan is Case 1 Sliger 3702, Case 2 Sliger 3701. Case 1 is the primary media server and I need all drives on that. I dont want two separated servers with 10 drives each. 

Gaming - Ryzen 5800X3D | 64GB 3200mhz  MSI 6900 XT Mini-ITX SFF Build

Home Server (Unraid OS) - Ryzen 5950x | 128GB ECC 3200mhz |  EVGA 1060 6GB | 6TB SSD Cache [3x2TB] 66TB HDD [11x6TB]

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50 minutes ago, suchamoneypit said:

Thanks. Any concerns with bandwidth you know about? Given its just going to 10 hardrives, and assuming half of the cards bandwidth goes to the 2 cables which go to the expander, I expect at least 6GBps which should be enough. 

Each of those cables is 4 6gbit sas links, so 48gbit should be plenty for 10 hdds.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Each of those cables is 4 6gbit sas links, so 48gbit should be plenty for 10 hdds.

Actually 12Gbps SAS, so even less constrained.

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 7 5800X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-14 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / 4× Crucial MX500 2TB (RAID-0) | Corsair RM750X | Silicom (Intel) X540-AT2 10G NIC | Inateck USB 3.0 Card | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | SKHynix P31 1TB NVMe SSD | Intel AX200 Wifi | Asus 2.5G USB NIC | Asus ProArt PA278QV | Keychron K12 Blue (RGB backlight)

 

Proxmox Server (Veda): Ryzen 7 3800XT | ASRock Rack X470D4U | Corsair H80i v2 | 64GB Micron DDR4 ECC 3200MT/s | 4× WD 10TB / 4× Seagate 14TB Exos / 8× WD 12TB (custom external SAS enclosure) / 2× Samsung PM963a 960GB SSD | Seasonic Prime Fanless 500W | Intel X550-T2 10G NIC | LSI 9300-8i HBA | Adaptec 82885T SAS Expander | Fractal Design Node 804 Case

 

Proxmox Server (La Vie en Rose)GMKtec Mini PC | Ryzen 7 5700U | 32GB Lexar RAM (SODIMM) | Vega 8 Graphics | Lexar 1TB 610 Pro SSD | 2× Realtek 8125 2.5G NICs


Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta Cannon): Ryzen 5 1600X | ASRock B450M Pro4 R2.0 | Noctua NH-L12S | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-22 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | UMIS NVMe SSD 256GB / TEAMGROUP MS30 1TB | Corsair CX450M | Viewcast Osprey 260e Video Capture | TrendNet (Marvell 88X3310P) 10G NIC | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case | Sony XR65A80K

 

Workbench (Doven Wolf): Lenovo m715q | Ryzen Pro 3 2200GE | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-22 (SODIMM) | Vega 8 Graphics | SKHynix (OEM) 256GB NVMe SSD | uni 2.5G USB NIC | HDMI add-in module

 

Network:

Spoiler
                         ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ──── UniFi Cloud Gateway Max ═╦═ UniFi Flex XG ══╦═ Veda (Intel X550-T2.1)
(500Mbps↑/500Mbps↓)  (Asus USB 2½G NIC) Narrative ═╬═ La Vie en Rose  ╠═ Veda-NAS (Intel X550-T2.2)
                     (uni USB 2½G NIC) Doven Wolf ═╝  (Proxmox)       ╟─ UniFi Switch 8-60W ─┬─ Veda (IPMI)
╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝                      └─ La Vie en Rose
║ ┌── Closet ───┐    ┌─────────────── Bedroom ────────────────────────────────────────┐
╚═ UniFi Flex XG ═╦╤═ UniFi Flex XG ═╤╦═ Byarlant (Silicom Intel X540-AT2)
           (PoE)  ║│                 │╠═ Narrative (Cable Matters 2½G NIC w/ USB-PD)
   Kitchen Jack ══╣└─ Dual PoE ┐     │╚═ Jesta Cannon* (Trendnet Marvell 88X3310P)
      (Testing)   ║┌─ Injector ┘     └── Work Laptop (Startech USB-PD Dock)
        Bedroom ══╝│
        Jack #2    │        ┌──────── Media Center ───────────────────────────────────┐
                   └──────── UniFi Switch 8 ────┬─ UniFi Access Point nanoHD (PoE)
Notes:                                          ├─ Sony PlayStation 4 
─── is Gigabit / ═══ is Multi-Gigabit           ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed from Bedroom to Media Center   └─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
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