Questions HDDs

[danalog]

Doesn't matter. HDDs have mechanisms in place to park the heads when power is cut. Sudden power loss hasn't been a cause of head crashes since... 1990? 

[cloudff7]

Do 29" CRT TVs and SATA DVD drives transmit a lot of magnetic fields to nearby HDDs?

What technologies are under development and study that will be used in the future for long-term archiving and resistance to high temperatures and humidity?

[Blue4130]

12 minutes ago, cloudff7 said:

Do 29" CRT TVs and SATA DVD drives transmit a lot of magnetic fields to nearby HDDs?

What technologies are under development and study that will be used in the future for long-term archiving and resistance to high temperatures and humidity?

My goodness man, don't you have google? I understand that LTT is a great community, but at least do a little bit of the work yourself.

 

Some keywords to get you started...

holographic

glass

dna

[cloudff7]

What are the best media for long-term storage?

Is it rare or common for 2.5" HDDs to have bitrot, demagnetization and other problems that corrupt data? For a 2.5" HDD + USB3.0 case that will be used once or twice a year?

[Blue4130]

Just now, cloudff7 said:

What are the best media for long-term storage?

Is it rare or common for 2.5" HDDs to have bitrot, demagnetization and other problems that corrupt data? For a 2.5" HDD + USB3.0 case that will be used once or twice a year?

For the love of god, how many times do you need to ask this? It has very clearly been answered many times.

[kokosnh]

31 minutes ago, cloudff7 said:

What are the best media for long-term storage?

For long term storage for HDD the important factor is the density per platter ( the lower the better ), and the technology used PMR/CRM/HAMR/SMR etc…   Anything SMR related is bad. And usually 2.5’ have higher density then 3.5’ and therefore more chances for hit rot.

But nobody will guarantee, the magnetic surface in your model, won’t just go bad ( bad sectors ) and your data won't be corrupted. We assume 5-10 years should be ok, 10-20 is pushing it, as mechanical components can fail, or magnetic layer can start to disintegrate ( I have seen lots of 15-20 year old HDD working, but again, they are old, and have low density )

 

for the ssd and data retention we usually assume 1-3 years for QLC, and 3-5 years for TLC ( best is to store them in freezer, with double plastic bag seal, and dehumidifier packet ) but remember, for ssd, it's very dependent on nand wear, and storage temperature, for long term data retention. 
 

For long storage, the most cost effective solution is LTO tape + m-disc BR/DVD if they have to just sit there. 
 

[cloudff7]

 

5 hours ago, kokosnh said:

For long term storage for HDD the important factor is the density per platter ( the lower the better ), and the technology used PMR/CRM/HAMR/SMR etc…   Anything SMR related is bad. And usually 2.5’ have higher density then 3.5’ and therefore more chances for hit rot.

But nobody will guarantee, the magnetic surface in your model, won’t just go bad ( bad sectors ) and your data won't be corrupted. We assume 5-10 years should be ok, 10-20 is pushing it, as mechanical components can fail, or magnetic layer can start to disintegrate ( I have seen lots of 15-20 year old HDD working, but again, they are old, and have low density )

 

for the ssd and data retention we usually assume 1-3 years for QLC, and 3-5 years for TLC ( best is to store them in freezer, with double plastic bag seal, and dehumidifier packet ) but remember, for ssd, it's very dependent on nand wear, and storage temperature, for long term data retention. 
 

For long storage, the most cost effective solution is LTO tape + m-disc BR/DVD if they have to just sit there. 
 

What is the density of my models WD10JPVX-08JC3T5 and HGST HTS541010A99E662 and HDD 2.5″ seagate ST500LM030

Unfortunately for me, mdisc bluray, LTO tape and the drives to run them are very expensive

[OhioYJ]

On 1/2/2025 at 6:48 PM, cloudff7 said:

I keep my HDDs inside the box, inside a cabinet. Next to the wooden cabinet, there is a 29" CRT TV and it has magnets inside it.

No, the odds of you having magnets remotely strong enough to have any effect on the harddrives in your house is not very likely.

 

You need to stop worrying about these things that aren't issues, and start putting together an actual backup strategy. Any data worth this much thought, is not on a single drive anyways. I actually just had to count, and my family pictures are stored on over 20 different drives (duplicated, not stored across), in multiple different locations. Even if something happened to my house, none of this data would be lost.

[kokosnh]

2 hours ago, cloudff7 said:

WD10JPVX-08JC3T5

4 heads, 2 platters 500GB 2.5” 

The HTS541010A99E662 is also 4 heads, 2 platters 500GB 2.5” 

but these are old, like 10-12 years, right? You want to use that? 
 

like think twice what you want to backup, and the Walię of it for you. 

 

ST500LM030 Is 2 heads, and 1 platter, it’s 500GB but SMR. 
 

 

 

 

[cloudff7]

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

4 heads, 2 platters 500GB 2.5” 

The HTS541010A99E662 is also 4 heads, 2 platters 500GB 2.5” 

but these are old, like 10-12 years, right? You want to use that? 
 

like think twice what you want to backup, and the Walię of it for you. 

 

ST500LM030 Is 2 heads, and 1 platter, it’s 500GB but SMR. 
 

 

 

 

seagate model is very bad for archival data? Is it disposable? for writing and reading once or twice a year much inferior to CMR for retaining and archiving data?
Are the other models CMR?

[Mark Kaine]

On 1/1/2025 at 8:32 PM, cloudff7 said:

2.5" HDDs is media that present many failures, corrupt data and defect mechanical if not used and energized for 1 year?

 

SSD is superior in this situation?

 

What are the best media for long-term storage without power for large files (example 250gb)

nope its the opposite actually... ssds need to be powered on periodically in order to function properly. 

 

they're also more prone to random total failures than hdds... 

[Mark Kaine]

On 1/1/2025 at 8:32 PM, cloudff7 said:

What are the best media for long-term storage without power

mdisc, bluray, tape

[cloudff7]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

mdisc, bluray, tape

i need minimum 200gb some ssd or hdd this capacity and no need very expensive drive for burning

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, cloudff7 said:

i need minimum 200gb some ssd or hdd this capacity and no need very expensive drive for burning

At some point you will just need to finally listen to what everyone has said. You have been given the answer many times. You need to just listen already. Archival backups cost money. If you can't justify the cost, then you gamble with loosing your data. it is as simple as that.

[Needfuldoer]

17 hours ago, cloudff7 said:

What are the best media for long-term storage?

M-Disc DVD-Rs and BD-Rs are rated to last centuries in climate-controlled storage. They just have relatively low physical data density and high cost compared to a hard drive or SSD.

 

The most reliable way to store data long-term is to continually move it along as physical media progresses. I have files from the mid-80s on my 140 TB NAS.

[cloudff7]

In moment i use HDD 2.5" more model Seagate st500lm030 is SMR, for archival data SMR IS Very bad? My HDD energize 2x year

[SansVarnic]

-= Topics Merged =-

@cloudff7 I have merged six topics related to the same thing.

It's nice to ask questions but when they are related, please continue in the same thread instead of starting a new topic each time.

[Kilrah]

Any storage can and will fail regardless of how reliable it's supposed to be, as said multiple times the solution is multiple copies and regular checks. HDDs are a pretty cheap and practical way to achieve that.

[cloudff7]

And for archival data HDD 2.5" used 1x 2x year has difference SMR x CMR?

[Kilrah]

Pretty much all 2.5" HDDs made in the last 10 years are SMR.

[kokosnh]

SMR is bad, as bit flip, and bit rot are just more probable, then on CMR. 
it’s better then nothing, or better then just one media type, but I wouldn’t buy one new specific for that propos. 
If you already have SMR HDD then you can use it. There is just no point in buying a new one. 
 

 

[cloudff7]

for long archival data HDD 2.5" SMR is inferior SSD?

[cloudff7]

For long term archiving data storage is better HDD 2.5" or SSD or Pendrive or MicroSD card?

[Needfuldoer]

7 minutes ago, cloudff7 said:

For long term archiving data storage is better HDD 2.5" or SSD or Pendrive or MicroSD card?

[ Threads merged ]

 

We have answered this question for you multiple times.

 

Mechanical hard drives will be okay on the shelf.

 

Flash memory fades over a long period of time regardless of whether it's an SSD, a flash drive, or a MicroSD card. They're all NAND flash.

 

If you want truly long-term shelf stable data storage, without having to periodically check on it or migrate it to new media, M-Disc can't be beat.

 

Rephrasing the question in a new thread will not change the answer.

[cloudff7]

15 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

[ Threads merged ]

 

We have answered this question for you multiple times.

 

Mechanical hard drives will be okay on the shelf.

 

Flash memory fades over a long period of time regardless of whether it's an SSD, a flash drive, or a MicroSD card. They're all NAND flash.

 

If you want truly long-term shelf stable data storage, without having to periodically check on it or migrate it to new media, M-Disc can't be beat.

 

Rephrasing the question in a new thread will not change the answer.

I analyzed MDisc but at the moment they are expensive, the drives and Blu-ray for 250GB minimum, they really have a very big advantage and do not require data migration or constant checks.