Can someone explain why Framework laptops aren’t completely dominating other laptop brands yet?

[pestermess]

Four years ago, I worked at Geek Squad at Best Buy, and I pushed hard with head office to start a partnership with Framework laptops. At the time, they thought the brand was too small and wouldn’t survive in the market. Now look at Framework! I’ve always believed they’re the gold standard for right to repair and show what both gaming and regular laptops should be. It honestly shocks me how little they’ve managed to break into the mainstream. I currently own four Framework laptops, and I can’t imagine going back to any other brand. Who else thinks it’s time to really get them some more exposure?

[TylerD321]

Simply put, cost.

[pestermess]

2 minutes ago, TylerD321 said:

Simply put, cost.

Their cost isn’t even that bad compared to what I’ve seen on the floor at Best Buy and Canada Computers. I’d much rather spend $2000 on a fully modular and upgradeable gaming laptop, or $1000 on a standard modular and upgradeable laptop, so I can easily grow and repair my laptop(s) as needed.

[Lurick]

1 minute ago, pestermess said:

Their cost isn’t even that bad compared to what I’ve seen on the floor at Best Buy and Canada Computers. I’d much rather spend $2000 on a fully modular and upgradeable gaming laptop, or $1000 on a standard modular and upgradeable laptop, so I can easily grow and repair my laptop(s) as needed.

Convince the average person to see it that way. I wish you luck.

[Needfuldoer]

They're too small of a company to support a large corporate deployment, so that's out.

 

Your average consumer (unfortunately) doesn't care about right to repair, they just want a cheap laptop. Framework laptops aren't the best value.

 

In beer terms they're a microbrewery, but Best Buy won't talk to anyone smaller than an Anheuser-Busch.

[pestermess]

8 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Convince the average person to see it that way. I wish you luck.

The way I see it these days, I shouldn’t have to convince them. Just eliminate the competition from their view and make things a better experience for everyone, consumers and repair techs alike, haha!

_{I'm crazy, I know...}

[pestermess]

5 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

They're too small of a company to support a large corporate deployment, so that's out.

 

Your average consumer (unfortunately) doesn't care about right to repair, they just want a cheap laptop. Framework laptops aren't the best value.

 

In beer terms they're a microbrewery, but Best Buy won't talk to anyone smaller than an Anheuser-Busch.

Yeah, I understand that perspective. However, I feel the only way to truly improve things is to stop giving consumers the option to buy non-repairable or non-modular laptops. I know it sounds extreme, but things won’t get better for right to repair if we let this continue. Unfortunately, tech repair businesses are dwindling, and that’s something I really don’t like.

_{Maybe a boycott is in order?}

[SpookyCitrus]

The average consumer does not care about modular or repairable laptops. Most consumers will want something ready to go, most also prefer the less expensive option. If you put two laptops side by side and say they both have the same specs, but this one is a couple hundred more because it is upgradable and modular, the average consumer is still going to go for the less expensive option. You can convince some but most aren't going to pay more for the same specs, even if it's upgradable. Most also won't purchase a laptop that needs to be assembled, tbh a lot of people mainly because they just couldn't be bothered to do it. Framework laptops are not for the average consumer and that is why they are not as big as you think they should be. While the initiated, and people within the technical community see the benefit, the average consumer which is a much much bigger group does not.

 

Also no business in their right mind should want to pair up with Geek Squad/Best Buy. No disrespect to you or the average employee. But(pardon my french), fuck Geek Squad. The amount of cleaning up and problem solving I have to do at my shop because of the local Geek Squads in my area is astronomical. Also sending off most of the repairs over doing them in-house while claiming everything is done in-house is a complete scam.

[vanpuffelen]

As good as Framework is, it's just not going to work out for many budget-oriented consumers, including me. I bought a refurbished Lenovo ThinkPad T495 from a local refurbisher to replace my old laptop, which was starting to show its age in literally 3 years. The Framework 13 was just too expensive, at like €1200.

 

The only real competition that Framework has are Dell XPS laptops and MacBooks. I've personally had a Dell XPS 13 shit itself after like 3 years. It wasn't the old laptop I replaced with the T495, but rather a hand-me-down from my father's work to my mother. MacBooks are mostly just for Apple glazers and people who need a mobile workstation, and Both XPS and MacBooks aren't repairable by any means, either.

[porina]

To be honest I've never looked in detail at Framework since they only started gaining traction much after I got my current gaming laptop >3.5 years ago. Let me go see on their site what is around today as I write this. For indication, my gaming laptops have always been 15" form factor and I don't care about battery life. Let's see what is around that category.

 

Immediately I see there's only 13" and 16". 13" might be advantageous for travel, which is when I mostly game on that laptop. Otherwise it is more a YouTube device at home, where 16" might be better. I can write off the 13" already since it doesn't have dGPU option. The 16" does, but only option is 7700S. No nvidia? Let's DIY one. Storage and RAM options... not as bad as Apple but certainly costs far more than I can get retail. Only one screen so no choice there.

 

Even considering upgrades I made to my laptop since I got it, the Framework would cost about 50% more for a much worse GPU. CPU is probably faster mainly from it being newer, but that's not so important for a gaming laptop. You might say, they're not going for the gaming laptop market. That's fine. They're not going to be a consideration for me until they do.

 

Part of Framework's selling point is a negative for me. I don't need or want that level configurability in the ports. It makes it mechanically excessively complicated, wasting space, material and may increase the changes of it failing.

 

Maybe it makes more sense for other laptop categories, but this doesn't work for me at all.

 

The website also sucks.

[manikyath]

few things:

- availability is limited (cant pick one up at a local shop)

- keyboard selections are limited

- they are in a VERY expensive class of laptop.

- you only ever have 6 ports on it, so I/O is honestly fairly limited.

 

the framework 16 costs nearly double of what i paid for my asus zenbook, and the zenbook is serving me very nicely. my zenbook has all the ports i need, it has a decently powerful gpu, it has a x360 hinge, it even came with an active pen for the touch screen and an ethernet adapter.

 

and while some level of repairability is great, my previous laptop lasted close to 10 years, and essentially all that needed doing was a new battery, and new buttons for the trackpad.

 

also.. people really underestimate the repairability of a regular ass HP elitebook. similar price bracket for similar specs, but they offer 3 years of on-site warranty where they *will* send a dude to your doorstep next day to fix any problem you have with it... and when warranty runs out, they have a pretty vast catalog of replacement parts if you know where to find it. HP is corporate as fuck so finding it is the most dense maze, but it exists.

 

the fact of the matter is just that corporate tends to prefer stronger support structures like HP's premium lines, and a lot of self-employed, small business, and home users tend to prefer affordability. it's great you can repair a framework, but if you can buy a pretty solid $700 facebook machine, you can afford to slam that into a curb 4 times for a single framework.

 

and on that note.. the little side thingies on the framework 16 look like absolute ass. they arent even on straight in their product photos. IMO that is unacceptable for a machine you can drop close to 3k on.

[Needfuldoer]

14 minutes ago, vanpuffelen said:

Both XPS and MacBooks aren't repairable by any means, either.

Nonsense. The most difficult part is getting your hands on parts.

 

Dell publishes service manuals for most of their computers and servers that show you how to do component-level swaps. Apple doesn't, but that's iFixit's raison d'être.

 

Framework set themselves apart by committing to first-party parts availability and sticking with a physical form factor with interchangeable parts.

[porina]

1 hour ago, pestermess said:

Four years ago, I worked at Geek Squad at Best Buy, and I pushed hard with head office to start a partnership with Framework laptops.

I just looked up Framework's timeline to see how that fit in with my laptop purchase I mentioned earlier. 4 years ago, they were not shipping product yet. I got my laptop May 2021. They started shipping the 13" model in July. Linus bought in in September. 16" model only came out last year.

 

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

the fact of the matter is just that corporate tends to prefer stronger support structures like HP's premium lines

Where I used to work (worldwide scale company) only bought Dell. I asked why. Support. Funnily enough they got bought by HP after I left, so I guess no more Dells for them. Or Macs, much to the cries of sales and marketing.

[vanpuffelen]

13 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

Nonsense. The most difficult part is getting your hands on parts.

 

Dell publishes service manuals for most of their computers and servers that show you how to do component-level swaps. Apple doesn't, but that's iFixit's raison d'être.

 

Framework set themselves apart by committing to first-party parts availability and sticking with a physical form factor with interchangeable parts.

It wasn't difficult to get our hands on a new display assembly for our XPS 13 when it initially started showing issues. We were stumped, so we sought help to the very store I later bought my ThinkPad from. It was revealed by them it was an issue with the motherboard, so, naturally, we refused them to go through with a repair.

 

For me, it was the fact that the motherboard failed so early that made it a pain in the ass. The quality of that XPS 13 was fine, yes, but the motherboard just killed itself after 3 years of use. Not only that, the RAM was soldered onto the board, which made its M.2 SSD the only thing we could really salvage from it.