Can my ISP know if I use a 3rd party router as an access point?

[LagLord]

Recently got a 500 Mbps internet connection from “Jio” (that's the ISP) in India. The LAN cable speeds are as advertised (500-600 Mbps). If I place my phone right next to the Jio-router, I also get 500+ Mbps on WiFi.

 

However, there's a really thiccc wall between my room and the router, so the WiFi signal I get is weak. I get around 100-200 Mbps in my room on WiFi, when connected to the 5 GHz band. 

 

I have an additional router lying around. Call this the N-router. If I connect the two routers via. a LAN cable, and connect my phone to the N-router WiFi, I get 500+ Mbps speeds.

 

The guy who installed my internet connection says this is generally safe, but there's a risk that Jio might see this and block me temporarily because Jio thinks my internet has been hacked, which can be fixed with a phonecall to customer service.

 

Is this possible? Or is he just trying to sell me an access point by Jio (which he says won't face this issue)?

[whispous]

It's actually none of their business what internet connected devices are beyond their provided gear, at least in every country i'm aware of - North America, Europe - I would be very surprised if there were grounds for this in India.

I think the guy who installed it doesn't know what he's talking about. Do it!

[LagLord]

48 minutes ago, whispous said:

It's actually none of their business what internet connected devices are beyond their provided gear, at least in every country i'm aware of - North America, Europe - I would be very surprised if there were grounds for this in India.

I think the guy who installed it doesn't know what he's talking about. Do it!

I want to clarify something because there seems to be some misunderstanding.

It's not that I'm in violation of some Terms of Service by using a second router as an access point, I'm not. That's not a thing here either.

 

The guy said using a second router with “its own settings” can make it appear as though I'm being hacked, which is why some sites could potentially be blocked as a safety measure by the ISP. 

 

Is that possible? 

[Kilrah]

Not it itself. Probably thinking of you e.g. putting no password on that 2nd wifi so anyone around could connect to it and do stupid stuff.

[LIGISTX]

A WiFi access point is literally just a wireless switch. No issue at all installing one, and the ISP wouldn’t be able to “know” you did it…. It’s just switching traffic like a wired switch would do. 

[LagLord]

19 hours ago, Kilrah said:

Not it itself. Probably thinking of you e.g. putting no password on that 2nd wifi so anyone around could connect to it and do stupid stuff.

No no. You've misunderstood. I know I won't be hacked. But can the ISP detect I'm using a second router, and falsely flag that as suspicious activity? 

[whispous]

2 hours ago, LagLord said:

No no. You've misunderstood. I know I won't be hacked. But can the ISP detect I'm using a second router, and falsely flag that as suspicious activity? 

No

[NobleGamer]

6 hours ago, LagLord said:

can the ISP detect I'm using a second router, and falsely flag that as suspicious activity?

 

3 hours ago, whispous said:

No

Nobody can confirm "no" unless we know exactly how limited the ISP's router is in detecting connected devices and sending that info back to the ISP - In this case, a second router ("N-router") that you want to connect.

 

A bunch of people here, including me, highly doubt that some ISP cares if you hookup a second router, but nobody other than your ISP can confirm that they don't care.

 

The correct answer to your original question is "it depends" because it depends on:

• How much hardware/network type info your Nrouter would expose to the first router
• How much your ISP router gathers about hardware/network info

At minimum, all network devices including Nrouter always provide a MAC address. Some routers do allow changing/spoofing MAC addresses if needed, like if you want your router to provide the MAC address of your PC's network card. If MAC address is sent back to the ISP and if they want to analyze it, they COULD try to lookup the manufacturer. Not sure if that alone could allow them to determine it is a second router unless the maker only creates routers.

 

Other stuff your second router might expose includes (that I can see in mobile app "wifiman" doing device discovery):

• Manufacturer
• Model
• Open ports (port 80 or 443 would likely be open to access Nrouter's web interface)
• UPNP serial number

[Falcon1986]

On 9/20/2024 at 3:42 AM, LagLord said:

Is this possible? Or is he just trying to sell me an access point by Jio (which he says won't face this issue)?

From my experience with the handful of ISPs I've had to deal with, they will try to sell you something if they get a chance.

 

Maybe the technician didn't know what he/she was talking about; maybe they even have a superficial understanding of a potential problem and are attributing it to "hacking". Maybe they've seen many inexperienced customers just attaching a whole lot of routers behind their ISP gateway and calling support with "problems". At least if you let them hook up their device, they have control and can troubleshoot easily, perhaps even remotely. Of course, this is all in the name of convenience, but it generally comes at an additional monthly price. Some are willing to pay for this convenience.

 

Personally, I don't think you have anything to worry about if you attach your own wireless router in AP mode. It will simply appear as another client device behind the ISP's gateway and will pass all traffic from other connected clients to the gateway. The gateway remains "in control", especially when it comes to DHCP, firewall, etc.

[LagLord]

2 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Maybe the technician didn't know what he/she was talking about; maybe they even have a superficial understanding of a potential problem and are attributing it to "hacking". Maybe they've seen many inexperienced customers just attaching a whole lot of routers behind their ISP gateway and calling support with "problems". At least if you let them hook up their device, they have control and can troubleshoot easily, perhaps even remotely. Of course, this is all in the name of convenience, but it generally comes at an additional monthly price. Some are willing to pay for this convenience.

 

yeah, that was my instinct too. Thanks!

[Donut417]

15 hours ago, whispous said:

No

Once read a post on DSLreports.com. Comcast has back door access in to the gateways they supply. They can see what devices are connected. Which is why I choose to use my own modem and router. 

 

On 9/20/2024 at 3:42 AM, LagLord said:

Or is he just trying to sell me an access point by Jio

Likely this is the case. I know here in the US most ISP's will lease their equipment to customers. My ISP charges $15 a month for a gateway OR $25 a month for the gateway but you also get "Unlimited data". They also have range extenders they will also lease to you. So basically the equipment that they buy in bulk is a cash cow for them in fees. Thankfully due to FCC rules Coax based ISP's have to allow customer owned modems, so we own our own equipment, thus our bill is cheaper. 

[Smith6612]

As long as you're not redistributing your Internet access to neighbors or the entire neighborhood, Jio shouldn't care if you connect an access point or two to your network. At the end of the day, you having better Wi-Fi service makes their service work better for you. They just won't support the configuration of hardware they don't supply if you were to call in for help.

 

ISPs can see what is attached to any CPE they supply, even if you put them in bridge mode. There is usually a management interface on a private IP network, unless we're talking ancient DSL hardware.