Laptop Turbo Boost Problem

[Rusty123]

Hi. Whoever is reading, hope you are well. I have a problem with my laptop, it doing turbo boosting for like 10 seconds and then being throttled because of temps and other things listed in the image below. EDP Other and PL2 for core, gpu, ring. TVB for core. I am not experienced with turbo boost and all these things and would really like some help. I have turned off turbo boost after buying the laptop 5 years ago and have not turned it on because it gets so hot and then gets throttled so quickly even while working. I have not gone above 1.79 GHz as it is my base speed and I have been facing under performance because of this for 5 years. I tried undervolting seeing some tutorials but it did not help. Turning off turbo boost helped me but cost me a lot in performance. My laptop is not a gaming laptop and its specs are:

 

HP Notebook 15-da1001nx

CPU: I7-8565U

GPU: MX130 (4GB)

RAM: 16 GB

SSD: 256 GB (C Drive for Windows)

HDD: 1TB

 

[unclewebb]

27 minutes ago, Rusty123 said:

My laptop is not a gaming laptop

That is very true and that is the main problem. Your laptop has a low power U series CPU which only has a 15W TDP power rating.

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/193563/intel-core-i7-8665u-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz.html

 

These CPUs are designed by Intel to power limit throttle. If allowed to run at maximum power, they will overheat and thermal throttle instead of power limit throttle. 

 

Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see what ThrottleStop adjustments are unlocked and available to you. Some manufacturers like HP go out of their way to enforce the 15W TDP power limit on these CPUs, or worse. HP might be using the 10W TDP-down turbo power limit. 

 

27 minutes ago, Rusty123 said:

Turning off turbo boost

Do not do that. The way to get maximum performance out of these CPUs is to adjust the turbo power limits to however much cooling your laptop has available. 

 

Edit - It looks like your laptop is significantly reducing power available for the CPU whenever the Nvidia GPU is active. The total amount of power is limited. When the available power is shared between the CPU and the Nvidia GPU, CPU performance will be terrible. Manufacturers were being very misleading when selling laptops with this power saving feature. 

[Rusty123]

14 hours ago, unclewebb said:

That is very true and that is the main problem. Your laptop has a low power U series CPU which only has a 15W TDP power rating.

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/193563/intel-core-i7-8665u-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz.html

 

These CPUs are designed by Intel to power limit throttle. If allowed to run at maximum power, they will overheat and thermal throttle instead of power limit throttle. 

 

Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see what ThrottleStop adjustments are unlocked and available to you. Some manufacturers like HP go out of their way to enforce the 15W TDP power limit on these CPUs, or worse. HP might be using the 10W TDP-down turbo power limit. 

 

Do not do that. The way to get maximum performance out of these CPUs is to adjust the turbo power limits to however much cooling your laptop has available. 

 

Edit - It looks like your laptop is significantly reducing power available for the CPU whenever the Nvidia GPU is active. The total amount of power is limited. When the available power is shared between the CPU and the Nvidia GPU, CPU performance will be terrible. Manufacturers were being very misleading when selling laptops with this power saving feature. 

Hi. Thankyou for taking the time to reply. Firstly, you sent the wrong processor link. Its close but mine is 8565U and its link is,

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/149091/intel-core-i7-8565u-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html

 

I have attached pictures of FIVR, TPL and also the picture of testing with TS bench with turbo boost on and with my laptop plugged in. It consumes about 35W for like a few seconds then throttling and going down to like 15 17W. When turbo boost is off and then when i test it, it consumes about 10.7W max and this is why I have always kept turbo boost off so that my laptop could run normally. Because when i had turbo boost on, it was throttling a lot and my laptop becoming slow even when doing work on my laptop and it was annoying so thats why i turned it off. 

 

Another thing is that when i game on my laptop with turbo boost off, randomly the laptop throttles and fps drops significantly, even though the temp of cpu and gpu is around 70 degrees.

 

I would like to enable my turbo boost as my laptop performance increases when doing work, but i dont have any idea of various settings of throttlestop. It would be a huge help if you could guide me in this matter. Thankyou for your cooperation going forward.

[unclewebb]

7 hours ago, Rusty123 said:

It consumes about 35W for like a few seconds then throttling and going down to like 17W.

 

Your Turbo Power Limits are set to run the CPU at up to 35W for a short period of time. The PL2 limit is the short term turbo power limit. After a short period of time the CPU will be forced to throttle and slow down so it does not exceed the long term 17W PL1 power limit. The power limits are not CPU temperature related. Open the TPL window if you want to try and increase performance.

 

Check the MMIO Lock box which is near the top right corner of the TPL window.

Clear the Disable Controls box.

Change Long Power PL1 from 17 to 30.

 

Your laptop has better than average cooling so it should be able to run long term at somewhere between 25W and 30W.

 

In the Miscellaneous section check the Speed Shift box. 

Set Power Limit 4 to a value of 0 to disable the PL4 power limit.

 

Adjusting the Speed Shift Max value is the best way to control the maximum speed of your CPU. Lower the Speed Shift Max value if you feel the need to slow your CPU down. Leave the Max value set to 46 if you want your CPU to run at its full Intel rated speed. 

 

To fix TVB throttling, clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box in the FIVR window. 

 

Your HP laptop has left CPU voltage control unlocked in the FIVR window. That is a good thing. Avoid updating the BIOS or your laptop will likely lock out most of the adjustable features in the FIVR window. You might want to wait before making any voltage changes.

 

If you decide you want to undervolt your CPU, check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box for both the core and the cache. Set both the core and the cache to a negative Offset of -49.8 mV. It should look like this. 

 

 

Less CPU voltage allows the CPU to either run cooler or it will throttle less and run faster. Undervolting is highly recommended. An Offset of -50 mV is usually 100% stable for 8th Gen U series CPUs. If you undervolt too much and your computer crashes, that means you need to increase the voltage (reduce the negative offset value). Some U series CPUs are stable at offset values of -70 mV to -75 mV.

 

This is all good stuff and should help improve performance when you are plugged in and when the Nvidia GPU is not active. The problem I think your laptop has is that whenever the Nvidia GPU is active such as when you are playing a game, this will trigger your laptop to reduce the CPU turbo power limits. The embedded controller (EC) that is programmed to do this cannot be controlled by ThrottleStop. If you see PL1 or PL2 lighting up red at very low power consumption levels, it is the EC that is power limit throttling your CPU.  

 

I like running Cinebench R23 to see how a CPU performs when the Nvidia GPU is not active. Your Cinebench score can be easily compared to the millions of other people that have run this test. You can also open up the ThrottleStop Limit Reasons window while testing to watch for any reasons for throttling.  

 

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7579-cinebench-r23.html

 

After that play a game or do some testing that activates and uses the Nvidia GPU. Check the Log File box on the main screen of ThrottleStop before testing. That will create an accurate record of CPU performance and any reasons for throttling. When finished testing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file. This log will be in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach a log file to your next post so I can have a look at how your computer is performing. 

 

Edit - Here is what your screenshot shows. When the Nvidia GPU is active, the CPU is PL2 power limit throttling when CPU package power consumption is only 11.3W. It can be impossible to solve throttling problems like this if it is the EC that is setting this low ball turbo power limit. 

 

[Rusty123]

I have done all the step you mentioned except setting power limit 4 to 0. It says online that it is an emergency power limit designed to prevent damage to the CPU in extreme cases of power or thermal overload. Kindly tell if its necessary to set it to 0. The speed shift EPP in the main menu is not checked, should it be checked and should i change its value from 128 after checking it? I have checked the speed shift box in TPL menu and have not changed its value. And i will test my system on cinebench and send log file. I will also play a game and send the log file for that too. You said to not change the voltage for now, so i am not changing it. When i perform testing and attach the log file, i will ask you at that time if i should change offset voltage. Thankyou

[Rusty123]

I have tested the cinebench and the results are attached. When the log file starts, it is for the multi core test. The logs for single core test starts at 22:55. I have attached the pictures for limit reasons too during the tests. I have noticed that during multi core testing, cpu comes down at 2.2 GHZ and 17W power. During single core test, after dropping, the cpu does maintains its speed. I will attach the log file for nvidia test after playing a game after an hour. Should i lock the power limit controls as the power went to 17W during multi core testing? (Image is attached) 

2024-09-14.txt

[Rusty123]

I have tested the system by playing a game as well. 1st match went well but as soon as it started the 2nd match my performance decreases significantly from 60 fps to 30 25 fps and was like that the whole time. The 2nd match started from 11:21 onwards. And ususally before after 30 second approx, my fps would go to normal 60 fps but this it did not go and stayed at 30 fps. The logs is attached. This log is new and log for the game is from the start. 

2024-09-14.txt

[unclewebb]

@Rusty123

 

Intel CPUs use three unique sets of turbo power limits. The MSR and MMIO turbo power limits can be controlled by using ThrottleStop. There is also a third set of turbo power limits that some manufacturers use. An embedded controller (EC) can be programmed to control these limits and the amount of power available for the CPU can vary depending on input from various sensors to the EC. The power limit throttling schemes that some manufacturers use are never publicly documented. The lowest set turbo power limit is what controls the amount of turbo boost your CPU can use. 

 

The first log file shows turbo power limit throttling at 17W. That confirms that setting the MSR PL1 power limit to 30 and disabling the MMIO power limit are both ignored. The EC has decided to limit power consumption to 17W and that is that. 

 

The second log file when the Nvidia GPU is active is far worse. At times the CPU is being limited to only 7.5W to 8W. The CPU is forced to slow down to a crawl to keep power consumption so low. It slowly climbs to 11W, 13W, 14W and then settles in at 15W. This is evidence of the EC varying the power limit. The HP brain surgeons that dreamed up this excessive amount of throttling have ruined what could have been a decent little laptop. Instead, there are times when your laptop becomes barely usable, especially when trying to play a game. 

 

There is no solution for bad design. I usually do not recommend updating the BIOS because for many laptops, a BIOS update tends to break more things than it fixes. In your case, you might as well go to the HP website and see if there are any BIOS updates available. I honestly do not expect much improvement. 

 

Most of your testing was when the battery was not fully charged. It is possible that when the battery is fully charged, maybe your laptop will be more generous with the power budget for the CPU.

 

Here is an example of a Lenovo C930 with a similar 8th Gen Core i5-8550U. Lenovo did not program any EC power limits. The CPU can run at full speed indefinitely. It will thermal throttle when it gets too hot but there is no power limit throttling even when running at 38.5W. The result is a huge performance boost compared to what HP did to your laptop.

 

Edit - Speed Shift EPP on the main screen does not need to be checked. When this is not checked Windows will manage the Speed Shift EPP variable. You can change the voltage like I recommended but it is not going to solve the problem that your laptop has. 

 

 

[Rusty123]

This is sad news. The really bad thing is CPU being limited to 7W and slowly climbing up which decreases performance a lot. No Having full battery do not help and have noticed that instead my performance further decreases if battery is full. Changing the voltage is not going to help but will it decrease the temps right?

[unclewebb]

@Rusty123

Decreasing the voltage might allow your CPU to run a hair faster. I doubt it will make any difference to power consumption or temperatures. The CPU will still be power limit throttling.